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Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Old 01-09-2009, 08:33 PM
  #51  
glydrjocky
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Found this link below for some kind of Acramax gyro....... better than nothing I suppose.... looks like there might be some good info. I'll have to read up on it later. Gotta get the Sceadu ready for tomorrow!

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...di/arcamax.htm

Tony
Old 01-09-2009, 09:02 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Thanks for the link. I did actually stumble on that page when in search for the manual for mine, but once I saw that it was not the correct gyro, I continued my search. However, I think I have the tail figured out now. Before, I could move the heli all day long and get minimal response. Now, if I just bump the heli a little, the tail blades start correcting quickly. I'll test it out once I can get to the field to fly, as well as trying to get my motor tuned better.

Tomorrow's weather isn't looking good to fly. The winds are supposed to start at about 8 mph at around 10am and work their way up to about 15 mph by mid afternoon, then start raining at around 6pm. Sunday is supposed to be a bit better, but winds are supposed to be between 6-10 mph. I'll just have to play it by ear and see.

Enjoy flying your Sceadu tomorrow.
Old 01-09-2009, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Sounds like an awesome day there!!!! Where I fly, calm winds are around 10mph and usually a dead 90 degree cross wind this time of year. Last Saturday we waited for the winds to stop gusting to 30mph before the helicopters came out. All the planks had long gone home. Once its down to 15mph we'll fly anything. You get real real good at cross wind takeoffs and landings with a plank where I'm from!!! Helicopters rock in the wind!

For some reason the location of our field near the foot hills of the Altimont Pass (yup, the same Altimont where the Stones played in the early 70's) causes wicked winds to form up even if the winds at my house 5 miles way are dead calm............

A deep rooted desire to fly can conquer any wind conditions..

A few photos of my flying buddies Brent and John with the standard wind socks standing at attention!!!

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Old 01-10-2009, 12:24 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

10 mph is a strong wind where I fly, and we're only about a 250 miles from Kitty Hawk, NC and about 115 miles from Carolina Beach. The attached picture is of my first plank and my buddy's first plank next to the windsock. If that thing is standing at attention, we usually just turn around and go home. I tend to try and play it safe with the wind, especially when flying my Tiger Moth biplane (which I regularly get comments like "That thing's not a helicopter" with, since it can dang near hover in for a landing), and since I'm just starting to get comfortable hovering with the Shuttle and barely into FF with my 400, I may try to hover, but if they drift more than I'm used to, I call it quits for fear of crashing. I may still go out and see what'll happen, maybe the forecast is wrong (it was saying rain for tomorrow all week, then today it said that tomorrow would be as mentioned in my previous post). I may even slap the training gear back on to see how she'll handle it. I've seen people take off their planes in high winds, they don't usually make it down in one piece. Much over 10mph, and the experienced pilots break out their trainers for some windy day flying (they don't like putting up anything else, including their 25-33% aerobats).

Enjoy your windy day flights, and hopefully I'll enjoy a few as well.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:41 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Hey, nice wind sock! We got flushed out of Livermore by mother nature today. Instead of the normal winds at 20+ and subsiding to something flyable under 15 the wind started at 12mph and continued to build past 20mph...........Uh............we left.......... and headed for greener pastures at a field we dont belong to.......actually only one of us belonged there and he showed up with 3 guests today!!!!!

So we somehow slipped through the tech inspection at our newly poached field with a few minor issues but nothing groundable and proceeded to have the most awesome, warm, wind free afternoon we have flown in a long long long time.

How'd your ole Shuttle run this time out? Mine was rock solid in the air today! Brents 700 was awesome, Rudy's Trex 500 was in perfect form and I blew the cobwebs out of the old Sceadu! Let that Redline .53 Run! The planks stayed neglected in the truck......seems to be happening more and more these days.

Some of the locals at our poached field were complaining about the wind today (about 3mph )........our response? Uh...........What wind???????

Peace Bro and happy hovers!



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Old 01-11-2009, 12:48 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Glad you had such a great day at the field. That 3mph wind would be perfect, even for my lightest loaded plane. Mine on the other hand, wasn't so hot, but not terrible either. As forecasted, the winds were between 10-15mph, however, I got in 2 flights (plus I found the muffler that I lost about a month ago from my Decathlon and I found a Craftsman 9/16 combination wrench to boot. Our field's just loaded with hidden treasures . Heck, sometimes if you can get to it before the combine does in the fall, one might even be able to find an entire airplane.).

When I set the gyro gain on the Shuttle at the house the other day, I apparently set it WAAAY to high. Her tail was wagging all over the place. Most of my flight time today was spent trying to get it set right. I think I'm close, however, the tail still won't stay put. I get it to stay put for a minute, then the next it's going the opposite direction.[sm=confused.gif]. I tried setting it without using rudder trim, but I had to use anywhere from half to full rudder to counter it, so I went with trying to get a good combination of gyro hold and ruder trim. I thought I could get it set by going to the point where it starts to wag, then bring it back a few clicks with the remote gain, but it seems to like having the gain set to where it's almost in rate mode. It ended up being about 20-40% lower than where it would just start wagging. The wind wasn't helping matters much either. The wind was right down the runway (if it was lighter wind, it would've been perfect for flying a plane), but since I'm not 100% comfortable with the Shuttle on side in hovering, I kept it tail in (with the wind to the side of her, causing her to have to lean about 20 degrees to the right to counter the drift caused by the wind). I then proceeded to walk out to the runway, turn her into the wind, and stand behind her (I was the only one flying today. 1 other person showed up, but all he did was run the engine on his Ultra Stick 120 and hang out a bit before he left). When I did that, she seemed much more stable, except for fore/aft pitch and up/down collective. I would lower either the collective or the fore/aft cyclic, and she would rise and fall VERY quickly. Most likely due to the higher wind speeds causing an exagerated lift loss and gain. I also had a few scary moments when she would start coming to the ground hard on the skids, as she was jumpy on the collective even with her side to the wind. My airplane radio may not be helping matters much either. I need to remove the ratcheting on the collective/throttle, and any fear of that being the issue would be gone (I need to send it in for service soon anyway. I haven't been as easy on my radio as I should).

At least at the end of the day, she was in one piece and ready to fly another day. Maybe tomorrow will be better than predicted and I'll get another chance to fly her.

BTW, nice Sceadu. I'm REALLY thinking that one of those (or the EX or JR Vibe 50, depending on my skills and money by then, but leaning more towards the standard EVO 50) will be my next heli when I return from overseas (getting ready to go back over the pond soon).

Happy flying.
Old 01-11-2009, 12:40 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Just like an Easter Egg hunt. Hey we do that too. In fact, noone has found the lipo battery that someone lost after all his parts rained down from a midair collision. Thankfully we use Cows to mow the grass rather than a Combine.

Hmmmmm, the gyro issue sounds like it could be annoying. How far out on the servo horn are you from the center screw measured in millimeters? Can you move on hole further inward toward the center? If you can do that then it may be possible to raise the gain a little higher without the waggle........ Sounds like the gyro is working or at least trying to. Dont give up on this gyro quite yet, and remember, a gyro is only as good as the servo that its driving.

I highly recomment getting that ratchet out of the radio. If its a JR they sell a flat tensioner that doesnt engage the ratchet. some people say you can just flip the stock tensioner over so the ratchet point is pointing out..............tried it myself and I could still feel the detents.

I'm curious what head speed you are running, if its too low (say 1300) the Shuttle will be way too sensitive to wind gusts that seem as if they are blowing the lift right out from under you. Pick up the speed to 1700-1800 and now you have a better response in the wind. Your description reminded me of my early flights where I dropped to the skids a few times in windy conditioins. Head speed was the cure for me.

Sceadu Evo's are selling for $239 at Ron's Heliproz .......... It'll be waiting for you when you return from duty so you too can "fly on rails" like the rest of us!

Well........I'm off to the field..........Sceadu time!

Tony



Old 01-11-2009, 03:37 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

The combine is actually to cut the soy bean bushes down. Our field is in the middle of a soy bean field. Every fall/winter, the owner sends out his crews to harvest. Sometimes he gets more than he bargains for .

Well, come to find out, the gyro problem, possible headspeed problem, and the ratcheting throttle stick are the least of my worries. My Spektrum (JR) DX7 blew it's fuse this morning, preventing me from flying today [:@]. The good news of this, is that I know where to get it, how much it is, and how to fix it. It's just going to have to wait until the middle of the week. If it ain't one thing it's another. Oh, well, such is the nature of the beast.

I'll have to get out a ruler or something to measure how far out it is from the servo screw. I think I moved the link out to the farthest hole on a 2 hole arm to get a bit more travel out of it. I may have to move it back in. I do plan on upgrading the all of the servos in the near future. Probably to some nice JR servos (not the Sports). I should also probably look into getting a micrometer (calipers) and go through ALL of the linkages and set them per the manual, instead of just eyeballing a couple of them against the pictures in the manual. I guess in my hurry to get her flying, I skipped a few checks that might would've made the difference between the good flying heli that I have now, and the great flying heli I could have. Not to mention saving me some headache as these little issues keep popping up.

As for the headspeed, I've never checked it with a tach, and I'm not currently running a governor. I've been using the standard preset throttle curve in the TX on normal mode. I did attempt to mess with idle up 1 (or stunt 1) a little, but I only had the pitch curve set for that, and not the throttle curve. It didn't have any effect on the flight characteristics. Is a governor a should have item, or just a nice to have item? Would it help me out any in getting the heli to fly any better?

Enjoy your flights.
Old 01-11-2009, 11:45 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

I always keep a package of those type fuses in various amp ratings in my field kit. I've blown them out in my battery charger a few times already. They sell them at Radio Shack too.


Move your tail servo linkage in to that inner hole before you try to fly it again. Then see if upping the gain helps get a better tail lock.

As for the head speed, an optical sky tach is the most awesome tool for setting up a helicopter. Make sure you have linear pitch curves and just adjust the throttle curves to give you the head speeds you want. That will work well for initial setups, hovering and forward flight. Now if you want to get fancy with your programming you can actually mix some throttle in with the cyclic stick when your getting into acro. Collective and cyclic inputs together require a bit extra throttle to keep the head speeds up. This becomes noticable when looping, rolling and flipping. I added approx 15% throttle mix for aileron and elevator on my OS .32 which really made the heli come alive during hard manuevers.... The trick is that you have to limit the overall travel at full throttle so that the servo doesnt try to overrun the stop. I did this by running my sub trim for the throttle to the 100% value. This way at full positive collective you wont get any more throttle movement even if you do move the cyclic stick. This mix can be set up to be active only in idle 1 and 2 so that there is no cyclic mix in normal mode.

At this point a governor is not a neccessity at all, you can do quite well by adjusting your throttle curves and perhaps someday adding some cyclic mixing. I put a governor on my .37 because that thing makes wicked power on the top end with my Century Silentpower 3037 pipe. I need some help to tame it down.
Old 01-12-2009, 08:07 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

I have an optical tach that I use for tuning my airplane engines, but I don't know how I'd use it for checking the headspeed on my Shuttle. Maybe dig it in the ground underneath the tip of the main rotor to the side of the heli, being sure to keep it far enough out to not "see" the flybar paddles (using the 2-blade prop setting), then stepping back and watching the numbers while spooling up. Other than that, I'd have to be right on top of those lawnmower blades to use it (needless to say, I'm not going that far just to get the correct headspeed). When setting up my throttle curve, should my headspeed be at the 1700-1800 RPM before I reach hover pitch at about half stick, then maintain the 1700-1800 RPM through full stick? And/or should I set my hover pitch point to lower than half stick (on my 400, I keep the hover pitch at about half stick, and it works well for me)?

I'm not worried to much about acro at this point, since I'm not even really comfortable enough to start FF with it. That'll probably be something I'll look at when the time comes, I just need to get it set up right for what I'm doing now. Another quick question for you regarding flight modes, would it benefit me at all to set up idle 1 as a "normal" mode with consistent headspeed where all I'm controlling on collective is the pitch (kinda what I was trying on Saturday to help deal with the wind, but didn't have it set up)?

I'll give that (moving the tail rod in a hole and upping the gain) a shot before I go out to the field this weekend (looks like the weather's going to cooperate all weekend, other than being between 30-50 degrees F, but I won't let that stop me ).

Thanks again for all the help.

Happy flying.
Old 01-13-2009, 12:48 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

The Sky tach uses a spinning shutter much like a camera and you look through the view finder at the heli during flight. You adjust the frame rate until the blades stop in the view finder, then read the rpm on the LCD display. Very useful tool. I have two friends at the field who have them we tach each other in flight almost every time we fly. I have heard of folks taching blades with the optical tach like yours taped to the tail boom and then hovering or setting it up on the ground under the heli. I like the skytach for simplicities sake..... Only $84 bucks!


At this point you should have at least an idle 1 set with the same pitch curve as your normal. Just adjust the lower part of the throttle curve in idle 1 so you have good head speed at full negative collective and -3 or -4 degrees maintaining the same RPM all the way through to full positive collective. When you set up an idle 2 just add more negative pitch and more throttle to maintain your head speed once again.

Weather you want to set up your pitch as -4, +5, +9 (midstick hover) or like I do -4 0 +9 is up to you. I just dont like sudden changes when switching between modes so I keep my center stick at 0 pitch for all three. I hover slightly above mid stick and inverted slightly below mid stick. I have found my heli more predictable this way.

I'll try to see if I can get some pictures of my curve displays on my JR 8103. DX-7 is about the same.
Old 01-18-2009, 12:11 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

This week I upgraded my tail servo from the Futaba FP-S148 to the Futaba S3010 (about 20-30oz. more torque and about .05 sec more speed). I had to reverse the servo setting in my TX to get it to correct the right way, but didn't think to change the gyro pot (it seemed to be correcting the right way when wagging the tail by hand). I also moved the link to the center hole on the tail servo arm (I tried the farthest hole in, but didn't get hardly any travel out of it). On the first test flight of the day, the tail wanted to pirouette wildly in the last manually inputted direction. I caught this quick and never got it more than about 6-12 inches off of the ground until I figured out the problem. As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, the gyro reverse pot was switched the wrong way, so I reversed it and proceeded to set my gain. I managed to get the gain pot to about halfway, then found that setting the gain to about 30-40% in the TX gave me a smooth tail lock that required minimal trim.

After getting the tail worked out (or so I thought, but more on that in a minute), I noticed that the heli was vibrating. Not so bad that I couldn't control it, but bad enough to keep me chasing the cyclic all over the place and watching the heli "toilet bowl" to an extent. The first thought that came to my mind was a bent flybar, but I'm uncertain of this. It looks seemingly straight by eyeballing it while still mounted to the heli. Another thought that has crossed my mind is that the flybar carrier does slide from one side to the other. Thinking of the centrifugal (or centripetal) force, I'm not so sure. However, thinking of the difference in lift (ie flapping on a flybarless head/retreating blade (paddle) stall), it may be possible that this is the culprit. I don't feel that it's the feathering shaft or the main shaft, since if either one was the culprit, the heli shouldn't even be flyable/controllable (from what I would think). Could this be a bent part issue, or another byproduct of low headspeed?

On the second flight of the day, I managed to get about 20-30 seconds of a good, solid, "locked-in", tail-in hover, but couldn't repeat it the rest of the flight. The vibration seemed to worsen, but not to the point of being completely uncontrollable. After running about 1/4-1/2 tank through her on this flight, the tail suddenly quit turning to the right. I had enough right rudder to keep the heli straight, but not enough to initiate a right hand yaw. I had turned to a right side-in hover, drifted forward (to my right), managed to get her stopped, she started yawing left, I tried to correct and couldn't, so I let it yaw left back to tail-in, and brought her back to where I wanted to set her down at. After shut down, I brought her back to the table, leaving the TX/RX powered on, and checked the tail control throw. She had plenty of travel left, but movement to the right could barely be seen. Before the flight, she had an equal amount of travel in both directions. When the tail blades are at the current max right hand throw, the pitch slider is nearly touching the tail gearbox, allowing no more right hand travel. It seems that something in the tail is being inconsistent. I've had to slide the tail rotor from the inner divot (for the tail rotor set screw) to the outer, and back again (where she was at for today's flights).

I like this heli, but all of it's little "bugs" that keep rearing their ugly heads are making me think semi-seriously about buying the next .30 size ARF heli to come into stock at the LHS and transferring the gear over. However, that's the lazy way out. After 2 years of attempting hovers on squirrelly little electrics, crashing them, and repairing them, I've taken enough punishment to both my pride and my wallet to make this look like child's play. When I get this thing right, I'll have learned something from it (what it is, I don't yet know), and take pride in what I've done (with your great amount of help). I'll also be able to take these lessons with me on to my 50 size next year. Maybe it's time for some more close up snaps of the parts in question.

I'll try to get those snaps posted before I hit the hay tonight.

Thanks again, and happy flying.
Old 01-18-2009, 02:33 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

!!!!!!!!56K WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!
As promised, I've got the pics. Some are of what I've mentioned before, others are areas of concern. All TX screens are from my Spektrum DX7 as it was flown today. No changes have been made since before engine shut down on the last flight.

Tail at max left travel.


Tail at center stick.


Tail at max right travel.


Flybar.


Flybar carrier side 1 pulled left.


Flybar carrier side 1 pushed right.


Flybar carrier side 2 pulled left.


Flybar carrier side 2 pushed right.


Rotor head detail.


Main shaft.


Main shaft 180° out from above shot.


Tail servo and arm.


Tail rotor housing.


Tail rotor housing shot 2.


Slight bulge under tail boom at the base of mount. (area of concern)


Links above swashplate that have play. Screws on both sides are tight.


Tail rotor set screw position. Before shows where it was at before today. After shows where I put it before today's flights.


Aileron Expo screen on DX7.


Rudder Expo screen on DX7.


Elevator Expo screen on DX7.


Gyro screen on DX7.


Normal mode throttle curve screen on DX7.


Travel adjustment (servo end point adjustment) screen on DX7.


Sub-Trim screen on DX7.


Servo reversing screen on DX7.


Shuttle model memory main screen on DX7.


If there's any other parts that may need some attention that you might need pics of, please let me know and I'll get them.

Thanks again and happy flying.
Old 01-18-2009, 09:19 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Hello Dart,

Sounds like your catching up with it. My brain is a bit fried this evening so I'll do my best to give you thoughts.

First the tail rotor drive shaft has those drilled detents (holes) you see to lock the tail hub in place. Something slipped or the allen came loose or worse yet the tip of it sheard off in the hole. Older Shuttles had one detent hole in the shaft, newer Shuttle plus has Two dentent holes. If you look at the manual it will tell you to use the inner hole for the shuttle plus. Actually if the tail rotor hub was slipping on the shaft your lack ot tail rotor control may be from an actual loss of rpm when the blade tried to bite the air. Something is very wrong back there. I'd pull the whole mess apart and check every part. The pulley, bearings, pitch slider clearance, check the lock allen screw in the tail rotor hub , checke the tail drive shaft for scoring and the blade grips and all the bearings. They probably could use some lube anyway. Make sure you put the allen screw into one of those detent holes when you put it back together or it will just slip again. I use blue loctite on the specific screw and have had no problems.

The tail rotor push rod should have a slight bend to the left as it exits the plastic guide at the tail rotor housing. This keeps it from binding up at its full forward travel in the slot. Look at the manual for the Shuttle Plus set up and you well see what I mean.


As for the the paddle bar and cage on the rotor head. I set that up with my trusty MM ruler, you should not have that gap where it can slop back and forth. The best way to set it up is to remove the paddles and measure so you have equal lentghts of bar sticking out of each side with the cage pressed frimly against the bearings in the seesaw. Then lock the allen screws down. I then measure in from the end of each bar exactly 25mm like the book says and put a peace of tape on the paddle bar at exactly 25mm on both ends. Now screw the paddles on until they just touch the tape and then measure from the cage to the paddle on both sides it should be the exact same distance. It works perfectly for me every time.

I think its time to take the individual head parts and remove the links so that you can feel each component for bad bearings. Check everything including the blade grip bearings. Check each component by itself. There are tiny shim washers that sit between the bearings in the washout arms and when they crush sometimes it allows the innerbearings to bind up, so check everything.

Dont give up on this helicopter, youve learned tons so far. What is causing you problems now is that your seeing the results of not completely dismantling a heli when you buy it used. You really have to take them apart and build them just like it was a new bird..................which is exactly what you are doing now!

I am quite thrilled that you have made it this far and am sure others reading this post feel the same.

If you buy an ARF its just going to need the same things sooner or later.

Right now I cant wrap my brain around much more, I'm really burned out this weekend.

I can take a look at your other photos a bit later,

Have a great evening.

Tony
Old 01-18-2009, 09:34 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

After answering your post above I couldnt resist a second look but a few things caught my eye.

That allen screw in the tail hub doesnt look like its engaged in the detent, the two holes should be in line with eachother and your hub lock screw is not lined up with either one of the holes.

Be very careful on the outer hole of the shaft. if you go to far towards the tail housing with the pitch slider the pitch links can go over center and the blade will flip flat in flight causing untold havoc. The older shuttles had a piece of silicon tubing slipped over the tail rotor shaft and pushed against the bearing to stop the pitch slider from moving to far inboard. You should use the inner hole on the shaft, just make sure its engaged properly, loctited blue, good and snug.

I'm seeing you have tons of subtrim in your rudder and throttle servos. What is the reason for that? The subtrim on the rudder might cause alot of gyro issues. I know my JR410 gyro only wanted a few points of sub trim to keep it from creeping at neutral. 125%seems like an aweful lot.

Okay, I'm heading to the store and getting ready for work this week. Dang these weekends go by too fast!
Old 01-18-2009, 09:54 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Thanks for the great advice as usual. I'll be diving into a detailed teardown and recheck of everything after a little while to check for the items that you mentioned and then some.

I know I should've done a complete teardown and rebuild when I first got it (other than just repairing the obvious). I've done it on the electrics that I've bought used (my e-Flite Blade CX2 and CP Pro, which BTW is experiencing some electrical difficulties that I'm having a difficult time tracking down, as I seem to be the only one experiencing this issue]) However, my excitement got the better of me, and I couldn't control it.

For the massive amounts of rudder sub trim, that's what it's taken to keep the tail locked in at neutral stick. The primary rudder trim is nearly maxed to the right as well. I've tried neutralizing the trims and sub trims, but it still seems to want that much trim to stay straight.

BTW, if you come back to this thread and see that some of the pictures are gone, I'm re-arranging them on Photobucket. I'll have them back up soon.

I understand how you feel. I feel that way quite often in my line of work. Get some rest and don't worry about my problem until you feel like coming back to it. You've been a huge help so far and deserve a break.

Happy flying.
Old 01-19-2009, 12:29 AM
  #67  
mydartswinger
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Figured I'd post this while it's still fresh on my mind.

Just had round 1 with the teardown. Noticed quite a few little things in just the tail alone. First thing that I noticed was that the screws on the pitch links on the pitch slider were to tight causing a bit of binding when trying to change the pitch of the tail rotor blades. Next thing that I noticed was the bearing on the tail shaft (blade side) has a bit of a catch (almost a gritty feel) at certain points in it's rotation, as well as not wanting to slide off of the shaft easily. The third thing that I noticed was that the tail rotor blade grips had a lot of play on the tail hub, yet the screws were tight. Next was the thrust bearings on the hub's shafts. Both spin freely, however, one does not want to come off of the shaft. The fifth thing that I noticed was that the tail blades leading edges are slightly chipped. The last thing that I noticed was that one side of the tail belt is starting to fray (I had it tight enough that when I flicked it inside the frame, it would make a bit of a sound).

I'm documenting this rebuild as I go, so I should have some pics of the teardown thus far sometime tomorrow.
Old 01-19-2009, 03:22 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

I was just doing some searching on YouTube before I go to bed, and guess what I found. [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn1tuRVOIUQ]This[/link] wouldn't happen to be you would it? Same screen name, Hirobo Shuttle, windy flying conditions. Looks like a match to me. If it is you, nice flying on both the shuttle and the slope soaring.

Just saw it and figured I'd ask out of curiosity.

Happy flying.
Old 01-19-2009, 09:06 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Yup that's me! Shot that sequence one evening when I got everything back together after my first epic crash, which left that ZX looking alot like the photos of your crashed bird. The tail was kinda fast and twitchy due to my lack of expo and the standard 501 servo I was using. My heli was really badly worn in that video. Servos and linkages needed lots of work. I had a hard time getting it to stay in the frame. Every time I came to field I had improved some part of the heli and it just kept flying better and better and tighter and tighter. The vidoe below does that ZX more justice.......it was dialed in by this time.

Our camera man buddy Brent shows up with a really awesome video camera and shot this video of my forward flight and 540 beginnings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKlgLDzhH2g



Brents Hughes 500 on a Trex 600 electric is below,,



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJXKgdHppwo
Old 01-19-2009, 09:39 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Okay, you found some great stuff on your tail rebuild..........actually awesome stuff.

You have found the standard issues for the tail.

The blade grip pitch screws need to be loose enough so they dont bind. It goes back to breaking things down to individual components making sure each part is working perfectly. The slightest thing matters here.

The tail shaft and bearing is a high wear area. That is why I went with the quick UK aluminum pulley and stainless saft. (needed to drill the second detent in that shaft but it was easy to do). They dont wear and trap the bearing in the wear groove like your seeing. Bearing is toast, you can use Hirobo which are quality but pricey or just go to Boca or RC bearings. Your left tail rotor housing has a piece of plastic broken off where the tail push rod outer tube is supposed to go. Noticed that in your photo from yesterday.

The tail blade holders are normally kinda loose on the Shuttles. At high rpm they stay where they should and track nicely. The thrust bearings in the blade grips are interesting in that they have different size holes in the upper and lower race. They go on a special way but you need to see the manual as to the direction that the race with the larger hole goes. I found that pressing the bearing between your fingers and turning is a good way to feel the bearings for wear and notches. The hold up quite well, just give them a good lubing and install in the correct orientation.

Your tail belt is WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too tight if you can play a couple of cords from Van Halens Eruptoin on it!!!!!!! You want it snug enough so you cant press the belt from one side and make it touch the other at the forward pulley with gentle pressure. Loosen it up and again, check the manual for the proper tension, there is a picture to guide you.

sounds like you do need a few parts to get a good fix. Good time to check if the tail pulley and shaft are bent. I found putting one end GENTLY in a cordless drill and spinning it slowly will show any wobble or bends quite nicely. I have about 4 bad ones already before going to the Quick UK.

That bulge in the tail boom looks like it may be from a hard landing, or due to the tail belt being too tight or both!

Okay, I'm going to leave you with that info for now. You'll get her flying, I've been here many times before...........and so have alot of others!

I'm going to sent along a photo of my tail set up if its not already posted above somewhere.

Tony



Old 01-19-2009, 09:56 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

First off, nice flying. Judging from the cameraman's reaction at the first 540 stall turn in the vid, that was your first?

Sounds like you've had some of the same issues that I'm having now.

On to your responses to what I've found.

I figured the bearing was toast. Dang, that means another 3+ weeks waiting on parts if they're not in stock. The piece broken off of the tail rotor housing was my fault. I couldn't slide the pushrod tube through it, so I took a flathead screwdriver to gently open it up. Unfortunately, it snapped. Instead of ordering and waiting for a new housing, I just CA'd the tube to the slot on the housing (not the best way of doing it, but I didn't get any glue inside the tube, and it worked without any additional binding).

The tail best tension was a quick re-tighten at the field one day without the manual. The belt was loose enough to lay flat against the chassis, perpindicular to where it's supposed to go. To get it back in the air, I loosened the 4 chassis screws around the boom mount and pulled the boom until the belt was tight, then locked down the screws.

During my first few hovers with her, I accidentally dug the vertical fin into the ground a couple of times.

That'd be great to see how a properly set up tail. I'll get those teardown pics posted in a little while.

If you want to check out one of my early hovers with my Blade 400 (about a month before I put it up for the next 4-5 months), I have a vide on YouTube. That vid is with a bent feathering spindle, ouch.
[link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsSlAwPls8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsSlAwPls8[/link]

Thanks again,
Shannon
Old 01-19-2009, 10:25 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

As promised, here are some detailed pics of last night's teardown.

Bent main blade mounting bolt.


Assembled Tail Rotor


Tail Belt


One tail rotor blade/grip.


Other Tail rotor blade/grip.


Outside of the tail rotor housing.


Inside of tail rotor housing and tail rotor shaft/pulley.


Tail Belt Tensioner Pulley.


Thanks again.
Old 01-20-2009, 01:15 AM
  #73  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Cool flying on that 400! I just flew my buddies a while back, it was light and a handful in the wind.......but oh so fun!

Good find on that bent bolt. That would tell me to check the blade grip bearings next. Do the spindle check by turning one blade grip inner not and watch for wobble on the other side. You might want to look into replacing rubber dampers that the spindle slides through. They come in a pack of 4 and tend to go south over time.

Start checking all your washout linkage bearings and pivots in the head, including the elevator pitch linkage and the aileron bell cranks. If they seem tight it may be that the thin washers between the inner and outer bearings of each link have crushed down and cause the inner bearings to bind. The fix is to buy a few backs of shim washers from Hirobo and start putting new ones in. if the bell cranks are right you can spin them like a propellor and the stop with the heavy side down. Free swinging is what I shoot for on the se

I think you should take a look at the tail boom where it enters the frame and make sure that alignment pin is there. its just like the one inside of the tail housing.

The tail belt idler pulley in the picture goes on with that open bearing face in a set direction, look at the manual to see which side it faces.


I'm having flash backs of two years ago!

Tony

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Old 01-20-2009, 08:30 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Well, the white stuff has arrived. Looks like no flying at least for today. Oh, well, as long as it clears up by the weekend. Maybe I can break out my T-Maxx nitro monster truck and have some fun

From my front door.


This would be a normal winter's day at my last duty station (Alaska), but here they close things down ..
Old 01-20-2009, 08:43 PM
  #75  
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Default RE: Stepping into nitro helis (Shuttle)

Looks like time to bust out the Shuttle Skis or some inflatable pontoons.

T

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