Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

I would appreciate someone explaining the main differences bewtween the Multiplex 12 EVO & the 4000 model, as there doesn't seem to be a great difference in price.
Thanks,
Bob

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

Of the two, the 4000 is much more powerful. It has 3-13 point curves (Evo 2-5pt), 25 - 100 model memory (Evo 36), a large number of configurable mixes per model and more. Don't get me wrong, I love my Evo 12, but the Profi is the more powerful in terms of programming. The downside of the Profi, at least to me, is that it is a flat heavy brick, but if you fly with a tray no problem.

Take a look at this website, they have reviews of both radios: http://www.rc-soar.com/multiplex/index.htm

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

It is heavy but can we please assasinate this myth that it is a tray radio. All the Profi users at my club fly normal thumbs on top, no tray, including an 11 year old, as the Profis are slimmer than Japanese radios and can take a smaller hand than than Futaba/Hitec/JR can take.


The Profi 4000 and Royal Evo 12 are in quite different leagues, the difference between them is vast and is a lot greater than Tohm has outlined. The 4000 has a lot more programmability and flexibility, though that entails some complexity and ingenuity to make use of the very advanced features. The advantage is that you can program it to do almost anything. Whether or not you actually need all the extra is up to you.

In the Evo's favour are its light weight versus the rather heavy 4000, its easier programming and its more conventional looks. It has two digi adjusters which means you can alter two parameters in flight rather than the one of the 4000 - say you want to adjust pitch and roll compensation in knife edge, the Evo can do both in one flight whereas the 4000 requires two flights, one for each parameter.

The Evo has digital trims, the 4000 has mechanical trims, but the 4000 has extensive trim software which gives it all the advantages of digi trims, such as if the trim lever gets knocked off position while the radio is switched off or when changing between models with different trim lever positions.

The Evo can have software upgrades via the internet if any more upgrades are released. The 4000 would have to go to a service agent but it is unlikely that there will be any more upgrades for it anyway. I do not know how up to date the 4000 is for helis and coping with the changes in that field.

Both Evo and 4000 can be backed up to computer, the software is free for both, you make your own connecting cable for the 4000 or buy a Multiplex cable for the Evo. The cables contain electronics and I don't know if the cables are interchangeable.

The Evo's sliders have a centre detent which is the only indication you get of their position without looking down at them. The 4000's sliders have a dummy slider next to each which you set where you want, thus letting you set the position of the "centre" detent.

The Evo has 4 flight phases, the 4000 has 5 flight modes. Evo phases are limited to travel and trim, 4000 modes have travel, trim, expo and rates. The lack of expo per phase on the Evo kills it for some people.

Expo on the Evo is fixed for that model, you can't even switch it on or off in flight so what you set it to on the ground is all you can choose. 4000 expo is switchable as well as per flight mode.

Evo mixers have 5 inputs, 4000 mixers have 8 inputs plus priority enabling. Evo has 14 global mixers, 4000 has an 8 input mixer per channel, and the mixers are per model. 4000 priority means that if any switched input is switched on it disables all lower number switched inputs - priority is set to on or off per mixer and defaults to off. Evo mixers are control side, 4000 mixers are servo side. That means Evo is less work but 4000 is more flexible. For example ele to flaperon mixing on Evo just set one value in flaperon mixer and assign flaperon servos to it, on 4000 have to program each flaperon servo separately.

To get around programming and adjusting multiple mixed servos separately, eg two flaperons, two elevator servos, the 4000 has multimixers. These are like servomixers each with 8 inputs but their output can go only to another multimixer for cascading mixes, or to a servomixer input, they can't output direct to a servo. It seems complicated the first couple of times, but after that it becomes easy to create multimixers so that you alter one multimix to adjust multiple servos together. Ultimately a 4000 servomixer can have something like 48 inputs compared to the 5 of the Evo. I have not yet encountered anyone using the full mixing potential of the 4000.

The Evo has 5 point curves implemented at servo level. The 4000 has 13 point curves implemented at individual mixer input level, so for example the elevator servo can have a standard 3 point curve response to the elevator control but a 13 point curve response to the rudder. That might sound silly but I actually do use that on a Synergy 90 3D where small rudder in knife edge needs a small mix of down but large rudder to do ke loops requires a lot of up, so the ele moves down, stays level then suddenly flips up as the rudder stick is moved. Evo can only do straight line mixing. Since the 4000 does curves per input, that is 48 13-point curves per servo compared to the Evo's single 5 point curve per servo.

The servo side mixing on the 4000 means that you can ignore the left right aileron sequencing rule that the Evo has to rigidly adhere to, unless you want to use the differential function in the aileron control, but even then the servo side mixing means you can set differential at the servo level and ignore the differential function.

The 4000 has a library of software switches, and this is one of its most powerful weapons if you learn how to use them. For that reason they warrant this in depth look at them. This is where you can create virtual programs, such as IF-A AND B THEN-ELSE scenarios. The Evo has a control switch on the throttle stick, a point that you set and it acts like a switch that you can assign to something else such as phases, rates etc. The 4000 has many of these control switches which you can assign to any stick, and many to the same stick, so for instance I use two, one at each end of the rudder stick, to switch 3D spin mode on and off automatically. The control switches can be 1 or 2 point, The Evo control switch is 1 point where on and off are the same point, a 4000 2 point allows you to separate the on and off positions, so for example something comes on at high throttle but doesn't go off until you come back to low throttle. The Evo can not recognise a 3 position secondary switch other than phases (a secondary is rates, mixers etc), the Evo treats it as a 2 pos switch and the centre is always off for everything except phases. The 4000 has something called a Transfer switches which is a software emulation that allows it to see a 3 pos switch as exactly that for secondaries, so the centre position becomes a valid on or off choice. Logic switches accept inputs from control switches and perform a logical OR or AND operation and send the output to where you want, e.g. rates, mixers, modes. My auto spin mode uses a logic OR switch with control switches to determine IF rudder stick is full left OR rudder stick is full right THEN spin mode on ELSE spin mode off. Analogue switches allow a gradual change from on to off, like a domestic dimmer light instead of the simple on-off switch. You set an on and an off point on something and its position then smoothly varies the output, such as the more you open the crow brakes, the more it turns down the aileron differential. Momentary switches are a software emulation of a latching switch that can be applied to a spring loaded switch or pushbutton to make it behave as if it latches in place. Finally, control and analogue switches can take their position not just from a physical control but alos from a servo position - a servo may be in quite a different place to any one control due to the effects of mixing or servo speed slowing.

The 4000 has servo speed control at 3 stages of the signal process, the Evo only at 1 stage. Evo and 4000 allow speed control of some control functions such as throttle, flap, spoiler. The 4000 also has speed control of individual inputs into mixers, and of individual servos (channels). So with the 4000 you can mix throttle to elevator for pitch trim and slow the mix to allow time for speed to change before the trim change takes effect, and you can slow individual servos if required so they run slow to all controls.

The 4000s trims are actually control sliders in their own right, by default they are mixed to the nearby stick at 30% and not assigned to a servo. But you can use them as controls, not trims if you wish. For example, someone with a large model wanted proper trim tabs with their own servo operated by the trim lever on the tx. The 4000 was able to do it for him, by turning the mix down to 0% and assigning the trim slider as the control for the trim tab channel.

Harry

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

Harry....WOW...[8D]

I'm in the process of choosing a replacement for my 9C...I was thinking of a 9C Super given its new assignability etc, or switching loyalties and going for the JR9XII or preferably the MX22 (can't find the manual though..)...or even looking at the Evo...but I'm not keen on its cheap flimsy case...superficial, me(?)

But I think I'll investigate the 4000 further after your little essay...I'd be silly not to...

Are there any user groups for the Multiplex tackle..?

Ta

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

This will be you in another forum then.......!
http://www.*************.co.uk/4um/i...?topic=18190.0

There is a Yahoo email user group covering all Multiplex radios, but if you ask here or rcgroups radios or ************* then I and others will have the answers for you anyway. There is also much info about Multiplex radios on Mike Shellim's site, www.rc-soar.com

H.

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

Certainly is...and I've started a "new radios" thread..

And you must be a certain well known acronym then...Should've guessed...!!!??
Pleased to meet you virtually...:)...
And how's the Jungmeister?...I'm going for the same engine but in a Sig Hog Bipe.

Back to the subject..
Yep...I'm in the middle of looking at the 9C Super, the 9XMk2, and the MX22...I've just downloaded the aussie review(for reading later), as the MX22 manual seems only to be online in the transmitter not in printed form as far as I know...

I was about to pass on the Evo and 3030/4000 as they seemed to be both complicated and way too clever for my needs..A couple of club members have Evos and seem to spend more time reading the tutorial than they do flying..sad..I used to to do that when I had an FC18..

But your bit about the library of "if then else" switches in the 4000 intrigues me..How many of these are there, and can they be coupled...cascaded..?

I downloaded the V2 amendments sheet from the hitec site...the section 3 logic switches explanation looks impressive..especially these two examples.


quote
„I want my airbrakes to be locked unless and until I
select the ‘landing’ flight mode AND the throttle is below
20%“

„I want the on-board glow system for my motor to be
switched on when I operate a switch, OR when the
throttle is below 20%, OR when I operate the onboard
starter.“
unquote

Is there a full manual around anywhere, or does it come only with the set?

As I use my forefinger wrapped round the stick with my thumb on top, I like to have the tranny supported on both sides for stability (like a mini tray just supporting the tranny back) or hanging rods like the Graupner MC series has, not just a neckstrap..Do I have to make my own or are they readily available?

Sorry about the questions...rest assured you'll have a few more to answer should I get a 4000 set..:)

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

Then they are doing something very wrong or have refused to let go of Japanes programming methods. The Evo is so easy that all the advice I give to people is purely from memory, I don't even have an Evo and apart from checking something on my friend's last weekend, I haven't touched Evo programming for 2 years. When you understand the methodology, you don't need the tutorial or the manual.

It's a use of the Logical switches. Because the output of the switch toggles between off and on depending on the inputs and the logical operator applied, and then the output is assigned to something like rates or modes, the observed effect on the rates or modes is an If.. then..else program. "If A or B then mode 2 else mode 1" is the observed effect of a logic OR switch output being assigned to switching mode 2 on or off. For example, I use "if rudder stick full left OR rudder stick full right OR button 10 is pressed, then go to SPIN mode, else stay in pattern mode". The actual program is Log Sw 1 inputs are C1, C2 and S10, operator is OR, where C1 and C2 are software control switches assigned to rudder stick, the LogSw output is then assigned to mode 2 which takes priority over any lower numbered modes if it is on. There's 2 or 3 or 4 logic switches, can't remember offhand. Each has 4 inputs and each one can be one of an OR or and AND. They can't officially cascade but if you have not used all 12 channels I have a way of using virtual servos and control switches to feed Logic switch outputs back into another Logic switch.

Multiplex hasn't got around to putting it on their website yet, there is a scanned version of the full manual here http://www.rcpages.com/docs/default.asp but it MUST be read in conjunction with the v2.0 software supplement because v2.0 changed some things quite a bit.

There is, or there was. Can't find it on Puntilio's site. I did have a set of hanging rods and side rests but I don't use them, not sure if I still have them.

Beware, the 4000 is logical to program but does need more programming than other radios because it is so open and free. It's like being given Excel spreadsheet. It's extremely powerful, but blank! You have to tell it everything which doesn't suit everyone, but if you need that sort of of flexibility and are happy to do that sort of programming, its a phenomenal tool.

H

RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

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RE: Differences Between Multplex 12 EVO & 4000
 

Thanks Harry
The RCpages link appears to be down at the moment...will try later

As far as Excel goes...aargh!! I used to used Visicalc on a Tandy TRS80 would you believe...beat the Apple any day (ducks hastily), but don't tell anyone I'm that old.
Then SuperCalc came out, then Lotus123, then I went on to Smart and DB mainframe tackle and lost touch with standalones entirely...Just sat about at various desks and let other folks walk about for me... thankfully now I'm officially past it and quite happy playing out every day with my toy aeroplanes...

Am seeing one of my pals this weekend to have a peep at his Evo12 in the flesh so to speak and see what all the fuss is about.. I'll tell him you say its a piece of cake to set up..:D

John