Notices
HPI Monster Truck Forum Talk about HPI monster trucks here. The infamous Savage 21, SS, .25 or any other HPI MT. You can optionally discuss HPI in our general MT discussion forum if you prefer.

Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Old 03-26-2005, 02:27 AM
  #1  
Hornet1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

I started my Savage for initial break-in by following the owners manual. After the first tank at idle I let the engine cool down. I proceeded to start it again and follow the instructions in the book (increase throttle slowly and then return to idle). After doing this the engine quit on his way to iddle. I start again (was hard to start) and I proceeded to throtle up and then release to idle and again on his way to idle it stalled. I get the roto start in it one more time and about 4 seconds in the startup the roto start turns but the engine doesn't. I dismantle the roto start housing to find the one way bearing was broken. My local hobby shop tells me that I tried to turn the engine while it was flooded. They proceeded to tell me that these engines flood very easily and that as soon as they stall I need to pinch the fuel line in order to prevent flooding. They also say to start the engine with a loose glow plug and then tight after the engine has started. The reason why I'm frustrated is that none of this is mentioned in the owners manual and it cost me a new one way bearing before the wheels even touched the ground. Now I'm kind of scared of starting this engine and break another one way bearing. Can someone help me out and tell me how to proceed? One last thing concerning the low end needle, what would be a visual refference for start-up setting, flush with the barrel??

Any help would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks
Old 03-26-2005, 03:08 AM
  #2  
cleffdawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mifflinburg, PA
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

from what it sounds like to me, and i'm sure i'll hear different opinions on this that the engine is running a bit too rich. I know that on break in it's supposed to be rich, but there is a little room for adjustment since every engine is not created equal. I would lean the mixture out a bit at a sixteenth at a time until it will idle, rev up and return to idle. Just make sure that in doing this it's still running rich enough. at idle you should probably see a hint of white smoke from the exhaust. I would use the glow plug method as well so that if the engine does flood again you don't break anything else. I have broke in four savages and never have had any problems but i did have to lean the mixture a bit and I hope this helps your problem. I did notice though that the breakin on the savage 25, which is what i assume you have, is really hard on the glow plug so after you break it in I would check it out otherwise you may think that something is wrong with the engine. Well, good luck!!
P.S. Let me know if this helps because now i can't stop thinking about it...
Old 03-26-2005, 03:12 AM
  #3  
cleffdawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mifflinburg, PA
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Oh, i completely forgot about the low speed needle. I always set it flush then tune with the high speed and if it seems a bit sluggish i tune the low speed in like 1/16 turns until it seems to have what it should then dial it in perfect with the high spee. It never takes much on the low speed side for me.
Old 03-26-2005, 07:06 AM
  #4  
Dave33
My Feedback: (2)
 
Dave33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Gansevoort, NY
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Definitely loosen the glo plug before you start it. After the engine is broken in and you have it tuned you won't have to do this.
Old 03-26-2005, 09:47 AM
  #5  
Nitronutt
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Nitronutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Swanton, OH
Posts: 3,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

HPI will replace your one way under warranty as long as you bought it new.

Over time, you will be able to hear the difference in the cranking with the rotostart when it is flooded. It is much easier to tell with a pull start as the engine can be nearly impossible to pull when flooded.

When it is flooded, disonnect both fuel lines (Pressure and feed), remove the glow plug and crank it upsidedown. When you don't see anything else coming out, flip it back over, put the glow plug back in and start it (without connecting the fuel lines). Chances are that it will run for 2-4 seconds. That way you are sure that you got rid of all of the excess fuel. Then reconnect the fuel lines and start as usual.
Old 03-26-2005, 02:23 PM
  #6  
cleffdawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mifflinburg, PA
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

i wouldn't start it with the fuel lines off but that's just me. when you start it like that you're running it VERY lean and if you do this enough in a few minutes you will definetly damage your engine. Of course this is just me and to each his own
Old 03-26-2005, 04:46 PM
  #7  
Nitronutt
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Nitronutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Swanton, OH
Posts: 3,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Cleffdawg - If you read my post, I said 2-4 SECONDS not minutes. It only takes a few seconds to clear out all of that excess fuel. Think about pinching off the line or running the tank empty to shut down the engine - the couple seconds won't affect or hurt anything.

You are right, though, if you ran very lean for a few MINUTES, your engine would probably seize and be toast.
Old 03-26-2005, 05:16 PM
  #8  
cleffdawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: mifflinburg, PA
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

like i said, to each his own
Old 03-26-2005, 05:39 PM
  #9  
Hornet1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Thanks for the information guys, I really apreciate this. Today I tried to start it again, I was very reluctant since I'm so scared to break that one way bearing again. I was never able to start it. Well actually it started the first time and stopped right away (2 seconds). I re conected the glow plug and nothing came to life. I removed the glow plug, disconected the inlet pipe and cranked it upside down. Tried to started again but was never able to get a crack out of it. Without joking I did this process about 30 or 32 times and was unable to start it. The low end needle is flush with the barrel and the high speed needle is at 4 turns from closed. The glow plug is in pefect condition, the fuel is new. Maybe its me that doesn't turn it long enough since I'm scared to break it again. I decided to stop and come to ask you guys to see if you can pinpoint what I'm doing wrong. To date it only has one tank of fuel burned into it, and this was done according to the instructions. What do you guys think. The problem is that I live in an area where there is nobody else around with these, therefore I'm pretty much on my own.
Old 03-26-2005, 07:45 PM
  #10  
rod300
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: attard, MALTA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

is your igniter fully charged? are priming the fuel lines? to prime the fuel lines you have to close the tuned pipe with your finger tip and start the roto start for about 4secends (not more than 5 sec so u would not flood it) WITHOUT pluging the igniter. thna plug the igniter on and try to start it. when you try to start it with the glow plug don't over lost it. it should be 1/8 trun lost just not fully tight.
When you tried to start it, have you noticed fuel coming out from the tuned pipe?
Old 03-26-2005, 08:04 PM
  #11  
Hornet1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Yes the Igniter was fully charged and operated the glow plug perfectly. I'm under the impression that the engine was primed, (I primed it by putting my finger over the exaust and saw the fuel go through the line to the carb). I had loosed the glow plug to prevent from damaging the one way bearing and no, no fuel was dripping from the muffler. Again, maybe its me thats not turning the engine enough because I'm scared to break the one way bearing one more time. The reason why I'm so afraid to break it is because after that first fuel tank I came to start it for its second tank and on that second turn with the roto start BOOM the one way bearing was out of comission Its not like I abused it or anything. Like I said in an earlier post, I went to started today with the new one way bearing and it did not want to start (HSN is 4 turns, and LSN is flush with barrel housing) the more I think of it maybe it was a fluke that it broke the first time and now I'm just afraid and don't want to abuse it therefore maybe I'm not turning it enough. ???
Old 03-26-2005, 08:22 PM
  #12  
Nitronutt
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Nitronutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Swanton, OH
Posts: 3,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Try turning longer. With my rotostart, I let it go for 5-7 seconds and stop. I usually leave the glow ignitor attached for 5-10 seconds before I try to start it. If it does not start after 2-3 7 second bursts, and you are sure that you are primed (but not flooded), and that your glowplug is good, then be sure to verify your idle setting. If you look down through the carb throat with the filter removed, you should see a 1-2mm open gap. If you see less or none, then turn the idle screw clockwise.

I also recommend against loosening the glow plug during starting as the S-25 does not require this.

If it still will not start, follow my method above and disconnect both fuel lines and start it with your ignitor on. Let it burn through any fuel left in it. Then reconnect the lines and there you go.
Old 03-26-2005, 08:26 PM
  #13  
Nitronutt
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Nitronutt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Swanton, OH
Posts: 3,088
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

P.S. Your needle settings should be fine to get you started.

If it is cold there (below 40 degrees F), try warming the engine with a hair dryer before starting. What I usually do here in NW Ohio is to keep the truck and fuel inside and warm until I am ready to run. I then go outside and start it immediately.
Old 03-26-2005, 08:27 PM
  #14  
bashking
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: burton on trent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Are you sure the one way bearing was broken? Most of the "broken" ones i have seen have just been slipping due to exess oil getting on the crank which causes them to slip. I have had to clean mine off twice and (touch wood) haven't had to replace it yet. This "slipping" problem can manifest itself during break in as you have to run exess fuel through the engine and so you get more oil seeping through the cover plate that sits behind the one way. Most LHS are quite happy to keep selling you new bearings though as they are making profit out of it. Sorry if this isn't anything to do with your problem i just didn't want you wasting your money on parts if you didn't need them. Another thing i hve noticed with breaking in these engines is that if they dont fire up first time you feel the need to open the carb up a bit more which just makes the problem worse as the engine will usually start for about 3 seconds rev up and then die. Just remember check the glowplug, Make sure there is fuel at the carb and make sure you have about a 2mm opening on the carb. If you have all these things sorted and the engine still wont start you need to change your LSN settings go richer first as a precaution but i can guarantee that if you are starting from standard settings then you will need to lean it off a bit (1/8th turn) if it still wont start at that then you have another problem so try and identify what is going wrong before you try leaning it off anymore.

Hope this helps
Old 03-27-2005, 01:36 PM
  #15  
rod300
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: attard, MALTA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

hi
bashking is right about the lsn for quicker start you have to lean it a bit. and about the one way bearing when your lhs said it was brokin was it cracked or just slippping? i have changed mine after about 10 gallaones of fuel but it was cracked when some time it slipped just put some nitro cleaner in it and it coomes back to normal. when you try to start your engine with the roto start you can't leave it for more than 10 sec . when you try to start it are you sure that the engine is turning cause if you put the one way bearing the other way it will become free , to check if the engine is turning take off the glow plug and u can see the piston moving.
Another thing have u put oil in the air filter?, cause if you put a lot of oil in the filter the engine might won't start since it become without air.
Old 03-27-2005, 04:30 PM
  #16  
savage25er
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

I had this poblem when i put my savvy on blocks for breakin . I contacted my LHS and they said u dont need to put it on blocks, this is just so inexperienced dummys don't give it WOT straight away. I used 1/4 throttle then drifting in figre of 8s for about 3 tanks then increased to half throttle and so on. My savvay is running strong and will pull wheelies with just a motorsaver air filter (s25 engine BTW) Hope this helps. Give it a try it worked for me. If it dosent work, Increase the idle a lil bit mayb

Joe (savage25er)
Old 03-27-2005, 05:00 PM
  #17  
Philster
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Crum Lynne, PA
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

I am a pull start guy, because you can feel if the engine is hydrolocked from exess fuel. When 2-stroke engines are flooded, unlike cars and other vehicles, they won't just crank and crank and crank....they seize. I've seen guys that weight 250 lbs (fatasses) lean back and try to pull the cord and it doesn't budge. It gets that locked from fuel in the crankcase.


When a nitro 2stoker cranks and cranks and cranks and cranks and does not start, you have:

Crap fuel (was this fuel left in the engine? Left open in a bottle? BIG NO-NOs! Nitro fuel draws in moisture from the air and goes bad when not sealed. Don't convince yourself your fuel is fine. If you never rea about glow fuel, don't continue. Read up on glow fuel.

OR

An air leak, which prevents fuel from flowing to the engine (unlikey... but possible...)

OR

A bad glow plug


IF THE MOTOR is hard or impossible to turn ( I guess the rotostart would be tough to hold or the roto motor would protest), you have a flooded engine...and in all reality, a flooded nitro engine is seized. So, if you force it, something will give....a part...something. The fuel won't give....did you ever see the power of hydraulics? Fluids can lift cars...bridges, etc.


If you have a flooded motor, follow the flooded instructions (and look at other tips on flooding, because HPI guides are minimal on the flooded engine help).

Now someone chimed in earlier to say 'don't back out the glow plug'. Well, it is good to back out the plug to relieve compression, and it helps get things flowing.

It is always better to UNDER prime, because a few more cranks will be required to draw in the fuel. OVER priming equals a 15+ plus headache. Choose wisely: Under prime.

Try NOT priming and cranking the motor and notice how THAT feels. Then prime a little and try again. So you take an extra 4-5 stabs at the rotostart without enough fuel. So what? Better than taking a stab at the roto start with a flooded engine.

Old 03-27-2005, 05:42 PM
  #18  
Hornet1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Thanks for all your help guys, I started the Savage today and ran it for a complete tank on idle and gave it a few bursts to clear it up once in a while. It now has 2 full tanks burned into it. Acording to the manual, the next step will be to have it go in an oval on the ground and increase throttle then let coast (this is to be done for two full tanks). I noticed when I opened the throttle (full throttle) to clear it today, it was stalling on its way to idle (what I mean is the following - pressed full throttle, it responded with smoke and then when I release the throttle and the engine is on his way to idle, it stalls) What causes this? I also noticed towards the end of the second tank, it was idling faster and stalled a couple of times, is this because the LSN is too rich?

Thanks again guys.
Old 03-27-2005, 06:17 PM
  #19  
bashking
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: burton on trent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

The idle speed usually increases when you run too lean not rich. As for the engine not behaving when you stab the throtal after idleing this is normal. You are running (or should be) very rich "standard" settings on both needles an this causes a lot of fuel/oil to pool in the bottom of the engine. When you rev it the excess fuel and oil gets pulled into the engine and causes it to stall. I may not have the exact terminology right here but what i am getting at is if you let an engine idle for a minute or 2 and then try to move WOT the engine will usually stall even though it will carry on idleing fine for another couple of minutes.
This is why each time you adjust your needles after break in you should always make sure that you take it for a quick spin up and down the road and not let it idle for more than 10 secs before you test the throtal response otherwise you will find the low end is unresponsive and keep adjusting the needles when in reality the needle could be fine and excess fuel sitting in the crank is causing the bog

Hope this makes sense
Old 03-27-2005, 08:50 PM
  #20  
howienf
Senior Member
 
howienf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St. John\'s, NF, CANADA
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

FYI
savage 25 rtr came with a faulty one way bearing. it was brittle because during the manufacturing process it wasn't cured properly. this was a recognized problem. my one way bearing broke the first day i had my savage before i even had fuel in it. it was faulty. called hpi and they sent me 2 new ones. my local hobby shop sold me one the same day with the understanding when i got the one from hpi i could bring that one back for a refund. anyway, with my new bearing theo riginal replacement i havn't had it break after 2 gallons of nitro and i have flooded my engine. so if you have a one way bearing problem again call hpi for support and they will look after you. they did me.
thanks
Old 03-27-2005, 10:26 PM
  #21  
Hornet1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ontario, ON, CANADA
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Hi Bashking, actually, its not on throttle up that its quitting on me, its when the engine is returning to idle after I have let go the throttle. Example: its idling, I apply throttle (half throttle since I'm still in the break in period) it responds approprietly, I let go the throttle and before it reaches idle it quits.
Old 03-28-2005, 12:40 AM
  #22  
EnderXXI
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Union City, AB
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Some of what you are saying sounds like it might be the fuel. Only because I was having the same problem of starting it. One thing I read was not to use Blue Thunder. I switched to O'Doules (however it's spelt) and haven't had a problem starting it or keeping it running since.
Old 03-28-2005, 05:33 PM
  #23  
bashking
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: burton on trent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Savage break-in, PLEASE HELP

Still sounds like your problem is being caused by the engine running rich for breakin. If you have a few tanks through it try leaning it off. I'm sorry if i cant provide more help but without seeing the problem for myself i don't want to sugest something that could damage your engine. One thing you might try is turning your idle up a touch as you may be killing the engine when you let off or apply the brake as the engine cant get enough air. You definatly need to turn it up if your engine dies when you turn the idle tare all the way down remember the 1-2mm gap in the carb has to stay open even when you apply full brakes.

N.b you will usually find that you have to turn the idle up a little on the tare while the engne is warming up

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.