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2005 sportman sequence

Old 01-11-2005, 12:44 AM
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relax1
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Default 2005 sportman sequence

Does anyone know were i can view a video of the 2005 sportman sequence? Like to see a well executed routine. Thank you. Luis
Old 01-11-2005, 02:10 AM
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Silent-AV8R
 
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

No videos around that I know of, but if you go to the IMAC site you can download a good walk through and some other good stuff. Look on the left under where you grab the actual sequences.

[link=http://www.mini-iac.com]IMAC SITE[/link]
Old 01-11-2005, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

This is a great idea! A video at the Basic and Sportsmans level would be great for those that have limited exposure to these sequences.

I would like to see the Basic sequence. I have G2 and ADPD if someone is willing to make a video in one of these sims it would be very much appreciated.
Old 01-11-2005, 07:29 PM
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Doug Cronkhite
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

If the weather cooperates I'm going to try to get the video of the Basic and Sportsman sequences done this weekend. It'll be posted up on the Flying Cirkus website in the Scale Aerobatics University section.
Old 01-11-2005, 09:06 PM
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relax1
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

This will be a great help.
Old 01-11-2005, 10:00 PM
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JohnVH
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Louis, Ryan (Flyfalcons) and I did the basic and sportsman ones that can be seen from two years ago sequences, they were fun and got alot of views!
Old 01-12-2005, 09:12 AM
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PaulBK
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

probably at least as instructive as a video, if not much more so, would be a walk-through of the sequence with a stick plane. much of judging is based on ground and pilot reference, both of which are difficult, if not impossible, to capture with a video. a stick plane is a great learning aide, and avoids many of the problems inherent in trying to follow an airplane.



P
Old 01-14-2005, 07:12 PM
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vatechguy3
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

do you have the web address for the flying circus website??

tony
Old 01-14-2005, 08:31 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

do you have the web address for the flying circus website??

tony

[link]http://www.flyingcirkus.com[/link]
Old 01-14-2005, 09:13 PM
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RichD
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite
Flying Cirkus website in the Scale Aerobatics University section.

Sorry, but I cant seem to find the "Scale Aerobatics University" section. I do go there a lot for the 3DU stuff though, great site indeed.
Old 01-17-2005, 07:27 PM
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psk560
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Rich,

I tried making a picture in picture video of the sportsman and basic sequences for 2005. I'm hoping www.*********.com will host them. I fear too much bandwidth will be used if I post them. LOL. What size of a file can your email take as these are about 16 mb each? email me if you want a copy.

Craig
Old 01-19-2005, 04:29 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

updated my site with a low quality version. Hope it helps.

www.psk560.com

craig
Old 01-19-2005, 07:56 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Craig,
Thank you! vids are great... I'm gonna try IMAC for the 1st time this year, and these are the 2 sequences that I needed to see how they are flown!

Many thanks indeed.
Old 01-20-2005, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Some comments.

First, Half-Cuban 8's have 5/8ths loops, NOT 3/4 loops. Both videos call that incorrectly.

Both videos show errors on the half loop combinations with roll elements. Both Immelman turns start the 1/2 roll before level flight is achieved. I'd downgrade each by at least 1 to 1.5 points for the error. In the Sportsman video the Immelman with the full roll entry would also get dinged an extra 2 points for the visible line between the full roll and the half inside loop.

Both spins are zeroes. Neither one achieved a stall and there was no autorotation.

The Sportsman snap is also a zero. No autorotation. Nose was picked up and then the plane was aileroned through with some rudder for yaw.

The Basic Hammerhead has significant torquing at the top. The plane does not stay in the same plane as it were. Both Basic and Sportsman would get dinged for rotation more than 1/2 wingspan out.

Most of the 45 lines also appeared shallow. This may be an artifact of the camera work as well.

I am not trying to ream you guys personally, but if these are being put out as examples of what the sequences look like as a training tool, then people should be aware of the errors. There are other less significant errors as well (over/under rotation of point rolls, internal roll element centering errors, etc.), but these are the big ones.

I plan to bring this with me to the Advanced Judge's class in Chandler, AZ this weekend. They are excellent judge training videos.
Old 01-20-2005, 06:26 PM
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psk560
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Do I hear royalties coming my way? You using my video in a class?

This pilot is a great friend of mine. We new this would happen and really looked for it. I teased him about the spin entry because of the sudden drop of his sticks. The judges can't judge your sticks though, they should be looking at the plane and the nose dropped and I didn't see any snap into it. We could argue all day about that though. The camera angle is very decieving and can cause quite a few misconceptions. I can tell you he was in level flight when he turned in the immelmans. We had a 15 mph crosswind that day striaght accross the runway and it was the first time he had flown any of these sequences. I appreciate his help as it is my first year in sportsman and I like to watch these videos to help me visualize the flow. I also asked him to fly close to me in a much smaller box than he would have normally flown in. There's my excuses and glad to see youre a tuff judge. We have lots of tuff judges in the SE also.


I'll put a warning near the video link asap to warn new fliers that these are not perfect examples.

Glad you enjoyed it,
Craig
Old 01-20-2005, 07:26 PM
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4 stroken ron
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

ORIGINAL: aresti2004

Some comments.

First, Half-Cuban 8's have 5/8ths loops, NOT 3/4 loops. Both videos call that incorrectly.
BLA BLA BLA
I had considered trying sportsman this coming season. But after reading this I am going to reconsider.
Thank you, aresti2004 for straightening me up to fly right.
Ron
Old 01-20-2005, 07:28 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Some comments about your comments.

First, I have watched and judged some of the best IMAC pilots in the WORLD fly their sequences, I have never seen one of them fly an entire clean sequence, not even close. These videos were meant as entertainment and to show an actual sequence being flown. They were not practiced, and not intended to be anywhere close to perfect, NOR as a training aid to demonstrate the proper way to fly a seqence. If you guys want one of those, (a training video) I am sure our group can provide one for you, when we get time of course, the JR challenge is coming in a month or so. We can only practice one sequence at a time.

You know, I started to answer each and every one of your comments, but all you have is a video to go by, very hard, if not impossible to judge. taking these videos to a judging clinic is a good idea though, you may find out people agree with your downgrades, and you may find they do not. Like I said video is very difficult to judge, especially one that the camera is almost under the airplane.[:-]

BTW, a couple of questions. Have you ever judged in an event, have you ever attended a judging school and what class do you compete in?
Old 01-20-2005, 08:30 PM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

I will grant you that it is difficult to judge from a video. And my comments were not meant to be critical of the effort and I am sorry if it came across that way. The videos did not appear to be offered up as pure entertainment and I doubt that people who come across them would think that is what they were meant to be.

I also understand perfectly that there is no such thing as a perfect sequence, which makes it all the more interesting that people are taking me to task for offering comments on the sequences as flown.

So I apologize if my comments were misunderstood. They were meant to be constructive and they were clearly not taken that way.


ORIGINAL: SCIMACER
BTW, a couple of questions. Have you ever judged in an event, have you ever attended a judging school and what class do you compete in?
A couple of answers:

Yes I have judged at an event.

I have never attended an IMAC judging school. I have attended an IAC judge's school.

I compete in Intermediate.

Perhaps I'll see you at the JR Challenge.
Old 01-20-2005, 08:45 PM
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psk560
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

No problem. Your comments are appropriate and allowed in open forums. I don't take offense to them at all and appreciate you giving me the idea to warn people that these sequences are not being flown perfect. Someone asked in this post for what it would look like and I thought posting the video might help. Glad you visited the site and got some enjoyment from the videos. Even though my website is a .com I don't have a business and don't make any money from posting videos. Just do it to share some of the fun we have down here in the south! "That's what we like about the south!" If youre heading to the JR challange look that plane up. It will be there. The pilot flies advanced and really never did practice these sequences before he flew them. He's a great guy!

Craig
Old 01-20-2005, 11:41 PM
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quist
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Bill, Weren't you some kind of judge at the last toc?
Old 01-21-2005, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

ORIGINAL: quist
Bill, Weren't you some kind of judge at the last toc?
It wasn't me. You can't prove it. Nobody saw me!!! [8D]
Old 01-21-2005, 09:32 AM
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PaulBK
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

SCIMAC'er

Let's talk about full scale for a moment. Assume you fly Advanced and you didn't like your score. Would you ask the judge - who might have never set foot near a full size airplane - what class he or she flew in? A few years ago I handed one of "the best" pilots in the SW two consecutive zeros on a very high K figure - the effect of which was to eliminate his chances of going to the Masters. Did it matter what class I flew in?

What is the "best IMAC pilots in the World". I had no idea there was such a thing.

Here's a question for you...how do you measure the benefits of an IMAC judging school, which i have to admit I have never attended. I am a teacher, and we are constantly being asked (told) to assess our kids. So I would love to know what kind of assessments these schools provide. I ask that because I look at the scores from IMAC school attendees, and the guys who i knew impression judged before the school impression judge after the school. Also, if you could explain the apparent paradox of awarding the mechanical zero (which i think Aresti did with the spin entry and subsequent lack of autorotation) with the need to have another judge agree on that zero. I have never understood that.

Assuming the video was made for entertainment, the pilot was not practiced, there was a strong crosswind, and the video was difficult to follow - why would that disqualify it as a judging tool? I thought the admission of the crosswind was very important - why? Because the aircraft should have been yawed to maintain track, which it wasn't.

I was hoping that the video could be used as a real judging aid - that people would ask questions, and if they wanted to challenge bill's comments, that they would do so constructively.

one thing that i'll comment on is the use of vernacular in the video and how it can lead to trouble. when we use terms like split s and immelman, the image is very clear - a half roll followed by a half inside loop, and the opposite for the immelman. be careful with a thing a thing as a split s that initiates with a full roll, or an immelman that starts with a full roll...callers can tangle their pilots in a knot if you say one thing - like Immelman - and mean another - call it for what it is, a full roll, a half inside loop, and a half roll...just my .02.

have fun...but learn something.

P
Old 01-21-2005, 11:06 AM
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psk560
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

I did not intend to cause any problems in IMAC or start a thread on judging. I don't want people to misunderstand my intention or cause a huge thread to start. My intention was to answer relax1's request.

Craig
Old 01-21-2005, 11:14 AM
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John Murdoch
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

Craig.. PLEASE DON'T DELETE THEM!!!!! I think what you have done was to show a pretty good "format" of the sequences. Maybe not all tens, but you certainly have outlined the maneuvers and what these sequences consist of. When I was first starting, I would have given anything to have an assemblelense of what you've done here. I'm sure there are bunches of people who, without your help, would still be lost. Don't give in. Keep the posts and the vids... I've noticed here, no matter what you say or do, someone is going to chime in with negativity. Don't let that bother you and don't let them win. When someone else takes the time to do what you have done, and shared with others, then, and only then, should you considering deleting your stuff.
Old 01-21-2005, 11:18 AM
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John Murdoch
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Default RE: 2005 sportman sequence

And by the way... Since no one else has said it, THANKS for taking the time to put something like that together.

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