Turbo Raven.
08-24-2003, 08:03 PM
#76
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Turbo Raven.
New technology is never worth the high investments if you look at it from that point of view... but it's the people that go ahead and invest their capital in this new stuff anyway that make it eventually accessible for the larger public...
I'm sure Sandor isn't trying for the best aerobatic plane with this project, but I'm quite sure he is going for the best turbine powered aerobatic plane...
After all... anybody can slap a ZDZ 80 on a plane, can't he... that's been done enough before, so it's no mystery... but slapping a turboprop on a plane and making it perform even just adequately? Now there's a challenge...
Or he's just a yuppie going for the coolest toy in town... that's a possibility too of course...
(But I'd like to believe the former :thumbup: )
I'm sure Sandor isn't trying for the best aerobatic plane with this project, but I'm quite sure he is going for the best turbine powered aerobatic plane...
After all... anybody can slap a ZDZ 80 on a plane, can't he... that's been done enough before, so it's no mystery... but slapping a turboprop on a plane and making it perform even just adequately? Now there's a challenge...
Or he's just a yuppie going for the coolest toy in town... that's a possibility too of course...
(But I'd like to believe the former :thumbup: )
08-25-2003, 06:10 AM
#77
Turbo Raven.
Originally posted by southern_touch9
Be honest, how does this thing really fly?? The turbine on the front is intresting but if it only produces 35lbs of static thrust is it really worth the money when I can slap a ZDZ 80 on the front that produces >50 lbs of static thrust.
Be honest, how does this thing really fly?? The turbine on the front is intresting but if it only produces 35lbs of static thrust is it really worth the money when I can slap a ZDZ 80 on the front that produces >50 lbs of static thrust.
then go for a petrol version of the raven and not the turbo raven
i wanted it to be a scale plane
08-25-2003, 06:13 AM
#78
Turbo Raven.
Originally posted by rob g
Sorry to upset anyone, but ATI manufacturing's Raven, is certainly not designed by them. They may be building this kit but the original was built and designed by IAD designs a long time before it ever came on there website. I have seen both. The design is a complete copy of the one from IAD. The version I saw at ATI weighed a ton.
In my oppinion, I would not deal with a company as unscrupulous as ATI, they have been in court a couple of times recently for non payment, and have lost on both occasions.
Check them for youself.... www.iadmodeldesigns.co.uk
regards
Sorry to upset anyone, but ATI manufacturing's Raven, is certainly not designed by them. They may be building this kit but the original was built and designed by IAD designs a long time before it ever came on there website. I have seen both. The design is a complete copy of the one from IAD. The version I saw at ATI weighed a ton.
In my oppinion, I would not deal with a company as unscrupulous as ATI, they have been in court a couple of times recently for non payment, and have lost on both occasions.
Check them for youself.... www.iadmodeldesigns.co.uk
regards
however the "ton"no it does not
ours is about 14 kilo,s incl everything
09-12-2003, 07:42 PM
#80
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RE: Turbo Raven.
sorry about the asterisk.
The name of the town has a swear wear word in the middle. Obviously the filters on this website dont like this. Imagine how the local council feels.....
Quite apt really.
regards
The name of the town has a swear wear word in the middle. Obviously the filters on this website dont like this. Imagine how the local council feels.....
Quite apt really.
regards
09-17-2003, 08:16 AM
#81
RE: Re: Raven
I think the answer to maintaining rpm's for the purpose of 3D flying is obvious. If you use a variable pitch prop, by changing pitch, rpm's will change also to compensate. This is where a governor comes into play. Change the pitches on the prop all you want, the governor will maintain a specific number of rpm's on your engine without the worry of under-running or over heating your turbine. I think the only question here is, will the turbine respond quickly enough to maintain rpm's even with the use of a governor? If this hasn't been attempted, I think it's worth a try. Good luck!!!
09-17-2003, 09:03 AM
#82
RE: Turbo Raven.
have a look now on www.wren-turbines.com
"Turbo prop Mk 2 (Sept 2003)
We have made significant improvements to the turbo prop. The engine has been slightly updated and we have developed a new much improved cast power turbine wheel. Other small improvements have also been made. The result is that the unit develops significantly more power than in its original form. We are getting 50 lbs static thrust (which equates to 8.2Hp) at a core engine speed of 160K. The price is unchanged. We can now offer revised gear ratios to suit larger prop sizes (up to 30 inch) for really big applications"
they have upgraded the Turboprop to 50LBS so i guess its ok now?
reg Sandor
"Turbo prop Mk 2 (Sept 2003)
We have made significant improvements to the turbo prop. The engine has been slightly updated and we have developed a new much improved cast power turbine wheel. Other small improvements have also been made. The result is that the unit develops significantly more power than in its original form. We are getting 50 lbs static thrust (which equates to 8.2Hp) at a core engine speed of 160K. The price is unchanged. We can now offer revised gear ratios to suit larger prop sizes (up to 30 inch) for really big applications"
they have upgraded the Turboprop to 50LBS so i guess its ok now?
reg Sandor
09-29-2003, 07:37 PM
#83
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RE: Turbo Raven.
SORRY To upset you ROB G but the ATI raven is by no strech of the imagintion in any shape or form a copy of the IAD designs TURBO RAVEN.
You state you have seen both rather than call you a lier i would perfer to say you need glasses. Infact the IAD designs is not a full kit as it comes with a pre built fus and has foam deckings. The ATI is in full kit form and has no foam deckings the cockpit design is to scale and not stand off scale like IAD designs. The cowl and fus has a scale profile and not flat sides as the IAD turbo raven has. Our model wights 28lb not bad considering we are useing the WREN MW54 TURBO PROP ENGINE with all the extra conponets to power the enigne. The model only wights 24lb if you use an 80cc 3w engine.
Yes ati did have a court case with a particular company THIS IS PERSONAL TO ATI AND THE COMPANY INVOLVED AND NOT A MATTER FOR PUBLIC GOSSIP !!!
Now getting back to the two designs whilst they are both very different each model has it's own attributt's and the modller will decide witch one to purches if either.
You state you have seen both rather than call you a lier i would perfer to say you need glasses. Infact the IAD designs is not a full kit as it comes with a pre built fus and has foam deckings. The ATI is in full kit form and has no foam deckings the cockpit design is to scale and not stand off scale like IAD designs. The cowl and fus has a scale profile and not flat sides as the IAD turbo raven has. Our model wights 28lb not bad considering we are useing the WREN MW54 TURBO PROP ENGINE with all the extra conponets to power the enigne. The model only wights 24lb if you use an 80cc 3w engine.
Yes ati did have a court case with a particular company THIS IS PERSONAL TO ATI AND THE COMPANY INVOLVED AND NOT A MATTER FOR PUBLIC GOSSIP !!!
Now getting back to the two designs whilst they are both very different each model has it's own attributt's and the modller will decide witch one to purches if either.
09-30-2003, 12:02 PM
#84
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RE: Turbo Raven.
Touched a nerve have I.
Any court paperwork is actually in the puplic domain. If you lost the case, (which one, as there have been more than one) and you did, it is open for public scrutiny.
If you like, I can get a copy of the court order and post it here to prove a point.
Not much point really, as you showed the contempt you feel of the UK court system, and failed to abide by that court order. Cost you dearly for the sake of peanuts in the long run
Do not try to call me a liar. The basic design, weather or not you have substituted foam for a built up structure is the same.
Not bad really for a first attempt in to giant scale. Maybe you should stick to mosquitos that weigh a ton.
You seem to know a lot about the IAD Raven. Taken one apart maybe. You forget, Terry admitted to having the prototype the last time you were in court. Which was sold to another company, and then ended up in your hands.
I may know far more than you think is comfortable. So don't take me for a idiot.
Stop me if you think this is just purely coincidence.
Regards
Regards
Any court paperwork is actually in the puplic domain. If you lost the case, (which one, as there have been more than one) and you did, it is open for public scrutiny.
If you like, I can get a copy of the court order and post it here to prove a point.
Not much point really, as you showed the contempt you feel of the UK court system, and failed to abide by that court order. Cost you dearly for the sake of peanuts in the long run
Do not try to call me a liar. The basic design, weather or not you have substituted foam for a built up structure is the same.
Not bad really for a first attempt in to giant scale. Maybe you should stick to mosquitos that weigh a ton.
You seem to know a lot about the IAD Raven. Taken one apart maybe. You forget, Terry admitted to having the prototype the last time you were in court. Which was sold to another company, and then ended up in your hands.
I may know far more than you think is comfortable. So don't take me for a idiot.
Stop me if you think this is just purely coincidence.
Regards
Regards
10-13-2003, 05:51 AM
#87
RE: Turbo Raven.
rob do you have a raven? i guess no is the answer
if you have a problem with ati why dont you make a new topic somewhere
we ware discussing here the TurboRaven
i bought the turboraven from ati last year , i even got parts send for free for repairs
in my opinion they did nothing wrong to me
no the raven does not weight a ton, if it did the turboprop would be even better then they mention on the website.
anyway the raven performed perfectly this year exept for the flame outs in the beginning
i guess aerobatics can not be the same as with jets , since everyone said you dont need a airtrap
we got also rid of the famous pitch control that everyone wants but can not tell me why.
exept for the fact that the pitch control does weight a ton and cost are also a cost factor 50 to 1 (pitch control 1100 euro,s, mentz prop 19 euro,s)
and witch the raven we can land by mistake on the nose without destroying the prop and the engine or gearbox.
all in all the plane is great fly,s also very slow , perfect engine from wren
all in all had good fun and made some points on the shows
exept the fact that mike murphy (designer of the engine)still does not like that we use a 26x8 that makes a "horrible noice"
we promisse mike it will be more quiet next year on the shows you visit.................
regard Sandor
www.digitech.nl
if you have a problem with ati why dont you make a new topic somewhere
we ware discussing here the TurboRaven
i bought the turboraven from ati last year , i even got parts send for free for repairs
in my opinion they did nothing wrong to me
no the raven does not weight a ton, if it did the turboprop would be even better then they mention on the website.
anyway the raven performed perfectly this year exept for the flame outs in the beginning
i guess aerobatics can not be the same as with jets , since everyone said you dont need a airtrap
we got also rid of the famous pitch control that everyone wants but can not tell me why.
exept for the fact that the pitch control does weight a ton and cost are also a cost factor 50 to 1 (pitch control 1100 euro,s, mentz prop 19 euro,s)
and witch the raven we can land by mistake on the nose without destroying the prop and the engine or gearbox.
all in all the plane is great fly,s also very slow , perfect engine from wren
all in all had good fun and made some points on the shows
exept the fact that mike murphy (designer of the engine)still does not like that we use a 26x8 that makes a "horrible noice"
we promisse mike it will be more quiet next year on the shows you visit.................
regard Sandor
www.digitech.nl
10-13-2003, 10:19 AM
#88
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RE: Turbo Raven.
Sandor
The remarks were not against you. Only against companies like ATI who rip off other peoples hard work. Change a little and call it there own.
The similarities between the two are there. All you have to do is look and you will see them.
This thread was about a turbo raven. This reply is about a company who builds a turbo raven. You are obviously friendly with patrick and terry. Some of the photos you have on here are in there workshop. I know this because I have been there to see it with my own eyes. If those two idiots have not worked that out yet then so be it.
They may write what they wish. I can prove every word I say. Can they.
ps, I do have a turbo raven, amongst many other aerobatic designs.
The remarks were not against you. Only against companies like ATI who rip off other peoples hard work. Change a little and call it there own.
The similarities between the two are there. All you have to do is look and you will see them.
This thread was about a turbo raven. This reply is about a company who builds a turbo raven. You are obviously friendly with patrick and terry. Some of the photos you have on here are in there workshop. I know this because I have been there to see it with my own eyes. If those two idiots have not worked that out yet then so be it.
They may write what they wish. I can prove every word I say. Can they.
ps, I do have a turbo raven, amongst many other aerobatic designs.
10-14-2003, 02:39 AM
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RE: Turbo Raven.
I dont think rob g replies constitute a childish argument. The comments are relevant to the thread.
I have heard quite a lot comments about ATI on various forums, and none of it has been good. I want to know peoples experiences with companies before I consider doing any business with them.
Chris
I
I have heard quite a lot comments about ATI on various forums, and none of it has been good. I want to know peoples experiences with companies before I consider doing any business with them.
Chris
I
05-12-2004, 01:14 AM
#92
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RE: Sad News We lost a great one.
Hey Guys,
I have been busy for a while so I have not been on the forums lately; I have some sad news to share. I just got a call from Ken Shapiro about an hour ago and sadly I was told that we lost Bob Francis this last Saturday. From what I understand Bob had been fine during the day but Saturday evening he told his wife that he was having chest pains; 10 minutes later he was gone. The sad thing for me is that I hadn't talked with Bob in a while but for some reason I called him that morning; I guess I feel fortunate that I had a chance to talk with him for a little while.
Words can't express the sadness that I feel for loosing a good friend and mentor; my heart goes out to Bob's wife Darlene and her two sons.
Thank you Bob for teaching me about your craft and sharing your knowledge about kit manufacturing. I truly appreciate the countless hours you spent with me answering many questions and for providing me with constructive feedback when I had problems. I promise to share the knowledge and help others as you so generously did with me.
I am going to miss you buddy.
Your Friend
David.
I have been busy for a while so I have not been on the forums lately; I have some sad news to share. I just got a call from Ken Shapiro about an hour ago and sadly I was told that we lost Bob Francis this last Saturday. From what I understand Bob had been fine during the day but Saturday evening he told his wife that he was having chest pains; 10 minutes later he was gone. The sad thing for me is that I hadn't talked with Bob in a while but for some reason I called him that morning; I guess I feel fortunate that I had a chance to talk with him for a little while.
Words can't express the sadness that I feel for loosing a good friend and mentor; my heart goes out to Bob's wife Darlene and her two sons.
Thank you Bob for teaching me about your craft and sharing your knowledge about kit manufacturing. I truly appreciate the countless hours you spent with me answering many questions and for providing me with constructive feedback when I had problems. I promise to share the knowledge and help others as you so generously did with me.
I am going to miss you buddy.
Your Friend
David.
