Any good 120 sized kits?
 

Is there any good aerobatic 120 sized kits

I like the Midwest G202, but, most seem to say that it is a bad flying airplane

I want a plane that would go well with a YS 140-160


These days it seems like there is only ARF's.. kind of depressing for people who like to build there planes

RE: Any good 120 sized kits?
 

I have two. It's hard to beat Dave Patrick's designs and I have both the Carl Goldberg Extra 300 and the Sukhoi. My Extra is powered with a Webra 120 and the Sukhoi, although adequately powered with the Webra, has an OS 160. These planes are great to build and fly.

I do have a spare Sukhoi kit if you are interested.

The Midwest Giles might actually be an OK plane with a YS 160 or an OS 160. The plane is a little large for a 120. I think what happened back when it fitst came out is guys were putting bigger engines on it to get the performance but it didn't handle the extra weight. I saw several with ST 3000s in them and they were just too heavy. Today with engines like the YS 160 or the OS 160 you can get the power you need without the weight penalty. It may make for a good combo.

RE: Any good 120 sized kits?
 

I've built the Midwest Extra and the Giles. I've got a NIB Midwest Cap on the shelf.

They build heavy. The Extra weighed 17.25 pounds with a 4.5 pound engine on the firewall---and it was TAILHEAVY!!! Can ya believe it?

I was very weight conscious when I built this plane. I replaced the ABS with Fiberglass from Stans. I replaced the hatch and tutledeck sheeting with balsa. I did a few other things, but still didn't like the final wwight of it.

17.25 pounds isn't all that bad, but I was flying at 6000' elevation at the time--and thats too heavy for up there. Sea level it would have been fine.

On the Giles-- I went nuts. I replaced EVERY piece of balsa sheeting in the airplane with contest grade balsa. That alone saved me over 8oz in weight.

I replaced the hatch and turtledeck ply sheeting with contest grade balsa. That was a couple ounces.

I took my dremel and sanding drum to the fuse. I enlarged all the lightening holes in the fuse by sanding them down to only 1/4" thick near the edges and glue joints. That was a LOT of weight. It's all lite-ply in there. I sanded out a BUNCH.

I drilled 3/4" lightening holes in the engine box and the front of the fuse.

I built the wings with a heavy balsa spar wrapped in CF tape. Replacing the Spruce spars saved me 2oz.

I increased the cord of the ailerons by 1". Easy to do when your framing. You just need a couple new pieces of TE stock on the wings and also some larger LE stock for the ailerons. Weight added--maybe a few grams of extra balsa.

I increased the size of the elevators. I added a counterbalance about 1.5" wide on each tip and increased the cord by 1.25" Added an ounce or two

I increased the size of the rudder by 1.5" on the lower side and only .75" on the top.

I bought CF landing gear for it. Saved 3oz.

JR 8231 digitals in each wing. JR 8231 digitals on each elevator. JR 8411 on the rudder. JR 3421 digital on the throttle. RX Battery is 6V 1650mah MH. RX is Hitec 8ch.

Power is a Moki 2.10 with a Cline and a 20oz. tank on the CG. Engine is mounted inverted with an on-board glow system--1400mah niCD.


I've already built the whole plane and installed every nut and bolt once. It weighes 10LBS 2oz. without any covering. Thats a completely mocked-up plane--with fuel tank, horns, servos, extensions, battery, switches--everything except covering and cowl paint.

I figure I'll be around 10.75LBS when it's all done. Vertical performance should be pretty decent.[:-]

It's a fun kit to build and bash. I'm pretty happy with the weight of the Giles. On the Cap--I might redesign the whole fuse to make it lighter. You could replace all the rear section of the fuse with balsa and probably drop 1/2 pound or more. Get rid of the turtledeck ply and the hatch ply. There's another 4--6 ounces. Save the wing saddle and the front end--like the motorbox and the FW. But you gotta be willing to rekit a plane--right outta the box.

Aeroworks still makes a 25% kit of the Edge 540. I've built it. They fly REALLY nice and they don't usually weigh over 10 pounds. Mine was 9.75 pounds RTF with empty tank.

But, my kit cost $275[X(]. Thats WAYYYY too much money for a box of sticks and foam. The turtledeck and rear tail section didn't fit right--and I had to make a piece of foam to take up about 3/4" of space in the tail. You'd think AW could make a kit where all the parts fit right--especially considering how much it costs.

I flew mine with a Moki 180.

RE: Any good 120 sized kits?
 

My dad has a Kit of the LAser 200 from MK he may part with.
THis kit was made for 120 engines like the Enya R and the OS.
I am sure the YS line will fly it fine...you may call him at 734-434-2733 during the day as he is retired.
His name is Miguel.
Mike S

RE: Any good 120 sized kits?
 

The best kit out there in that size does not really exist. You must scratch build.

My guess would be a Midwest Extra Size with a YS 160 DZ and an all-up weight of 12 - 12.5 lbs no more...

You could also build a CA 27% Extra with the YS if you can take care not to over build AT ALL.

Bottom line of all this is to get decent performance out of 120 size planes is to spend a lot more on fuel, motor, and time to get it all right. I have done that and let me tell you it is expensive, though it was less expensive than sell my sports car and get one of those minivans... My YS 140 DZ and 2 seasons of fuel cost me more than my ZDZ 80 with carbon prop, canister and fuel for 2 seasons...

RE: Any good 120 sized kits?
 

Moki

There are several really nice ARF's in that range. Ultra R/C's 29% Giles, Quique Somenzini's Yak, and Chip Hyde's CapX, to name a few. Chief Aircraft has a lot of ARF's in that range. However, since you asked about kits I would have to say you are somwhat limited. Fewer and fewer people are building kits these days and, in the end, ARF's cost less or about the same. The best kit I know of is the Colombo Anderson 24% Extra 300L. There were a couple threads on this kit in this forum. It is really state of the art and pretty complete. Balsa sheeted foam wing and tailfeathers, light but strong fuselage, and flies great ( I am told). One guy was able to get his to come in under 10 lbs. through judicious use of a hole cutter on the tailfeathers along with a few other substitutions. I think he put a YS140 Sport in his and said it was ballistic! I have one of these kits that I haven't even completely unpacked yet. I got it from Planes Plus. I'm not sure if they still carry them.

You have to use at least a really good 40 cc gas motor to have even close to the same power as a YS 140. I have a YS 140 DZ in an old Sig Cap and it's a brute! Sounds great too with a Slimline Pitts muffler. It does use a bit of fuel (about 1.5-2 oz. of CP heli 30% fuel per minute) but most of the time I'm at about half to two thirds throttle.

RE: Any good 120 sized kits?
 

Goldberg Ultimate, Extra, Sukhoi, or Bucker Jungmann. All of 'em are Dave Patrick designs and fly very well. I don't know which are still in production, but I'm sure you can find them NIB somewhere on the internet or at the swapshops.

As Staudman mentioned the MK Laser, also a very good flying plane.