Giles 202 questions
 

ok, im takin the plunge to something large scale and steppin away from the .40-.60 size planes. i bought at auction a 27% midwest giles G-202 with 72" ws. called a 1.20 sized airplane, what should i power this with. how about a super tiger 3250?

Also, it calls for 43 oz/in. servos on the ailerons and elevator halves. is that ok? Can i use standard servos on 6v and ill have 56 oz/in. i thought for sure i would have to have high torque?!

Your help is very much appreciated.

by the way, im not wealthy enough to get into the "big stuff" but i stole this mint aircraft for $130. thats why i asked about the st 3250, because of the price tag. ($179) also, my dad has a st 3000 on a 1/4 tailor craft.

i could also probably get my hands on a quadra 35 gasser? should i persue that possibility?

Thank you thank you for your replies. i know there are a lot of experts here. i know my little stuff but never owned something this big.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Standard BB servos will work just fine but I would put somthing more like 75 oz on the rudder. It is important to keep this airplane as close to 11 lbs as you can. Anything heavier and it will really hurt performance. I had a Webra 1.20 in mine and it had good vertical. Maybe an MDS 1.48, Moki 1.35, YS 1.40 or Saito 1.50. Im sure that if you keep an eye on Ebay or RCU you will find a good deal on a 2.10 to 1.50 engine that will turn an APC 16X8 in the high 8,000 range. Stay away from the Gasoline engines, that is a sure way to end up with a real dog.


Shawn

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

so what your saying is a g-3250 is too big? how bout g-2300

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

The 2300 should be just fine. Like I said though keep it under 12 lbs. That thing only has 960 squares of wing.


Shawn

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Thank you very much for your help shawn, anyone else chime in here?

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

how about a gms 1.20.....is that enough?

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Mine was 10 lbs even and with a Webra 120 it almost had unlimited vertical. With a 120, 11 lbs max.



Shawn

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

My Goldberg Su26 is the same size as the Giles you are talking about. It has a hair less wing area, but the same span. On the bathroom scale it wighs between 10 and 11 lbs. I've got a G2300 on it, and it's perfect. Balanced right on the mark with no added weight and has unlimited vertical. Fuel economy is good too, as I only use a 14 oz tank and fly for 10 minutes with plenty of reserve. I use a 16-8 Master airscrew, turning over 9000, but richened to 8900 for flight.

I have standard BB servos on everything except the rudder, where I have a high torque. It's a little slow on ailerons, but flies fine. If you are used to the 40 size models, this one will feel huge to you. The good news is that they fly so much smoother. The bad news is they are heavier, and tend to break if you don't land them on the runway. Good Luck!

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

DO NOT put a gas engine on this plane. You'll be VERY unhappy.

The 3250 is too much engine.

The 1.20 is not enough.

Get at least a 1.50. I'd put a 1.80 Saito on it. Lightest package and big on performance. ST engines are heavy. Thats NOT what you want on this plane. I know they are cheap--but heavy is heavy. They are just too heavy for this plane with only 960 square inches of wing.

Get an OS160 or a Moki 180 or a Saito 180.

BTW--this plane is actually 27% scale, so don't let anyone tell you it's a 1/4 scale (25%) The full scale Giles 202 is actually a bit smaller than most of the other aerobats. Thats whay--at only 72", it's 27% scale. So now, you can tell the guys at the field you have a 27%er and you'll be totally telling the truth. ;):D

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Do not go overboard with the engine here. The key is to keep it light so a heavy 1.80 engine will not be needed. With the wing planform of the 202 it must be kept light to perform. I have owned one of these with a 120 @ 10 lbs and it out performed a friends with a Moki 180. The only difference between the two was the engine and larger fuel tank. He also needed to run a pump as his fuel tank was on CG because he had to run a 20 oz tank as compared to my 16. His ended up at 13 lbs and was an absolute pig. Please guys if you are going to affer advise please have experience with the actual airplane in question.


Shawn

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

You contradict yourself here. The 2300 is lighter than an OS 160, and about the same as the Saito 180. 960 sq in of wing is plenty for the 2300, so long as the total weight is 11 lbs or less. If weight is really an issue, then the engine he should be saving his money for is the new OS 120AX. It's lighter than all the others you mentioned, and puts out good power.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

thanks for your comments not24, ive read other threads you have posted in and i can tell you really like the 2300. what was your best setup with that? I was lookin at the 1.20ax. i'll be running this through its paces and i didnt know if it would be enough. ive fallen in love with this airplane in the workshop and i think im gonna sell a couple of kits to get an engine for this thing. If you think about it, the 120ax isnt that much more...ill have $150 plus a $50 pitts muffler into the 2300. $279 and the included muffler will work isnt too bad i guess. i just have no experience with anything this size and dont know if the 1.20 will be enough. or not24, ill just jump on with you and get my self the 2300 which is a 1.4? What about the os 1.60fx?

thanks again guys

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Let me see if I can be of any help here. About the 120ax. If the model can be built at 11 lbs or less, I think it would have the power you are looking for. Do some research on tach readings for this engine. I don't have them memorized, but I think it's fairly strong. Two advantages for this engine are that it is an OS, which should be fuss free, and the muffler that it comes with will probably work for you. The down side is that it's a new design, and may have a few bugs in it. Remember the 91FX?

The OS 160 is a BIG engine. It's also the most expensive of the three. It likes 5% fuel, and is fairly economical, but you'd have to get a $50 muffler for that one too. I have seen one fly a 15 lb model, and it had very good, if not unlimited vertical performance. A 10 pound airplane will hover effortlessly.

The 2300 pulls good for its price and weight. It's like a strong 120. I run 10% nitro, F plug, and a Magnum 1.08 carb. It turns a Master Airscrew 16-8 at 9200 peak. That's more than a Sa150 can do, and very close to a Sa180. It runs fine without a pump, and the muffler has one stack plugged, the other one opened up to full diameter by cutting off the flaired area. Total price with carb change is $240, including muffler. The only drawback to the Magnum carb is that it requires an adapter sleeve to fit it to the engine. I made mine myself.

I'd say it's a tossup between that and the 120ax. They may be very close on power, in which case I think I'd go with the OS. I do like my Tiger, and am very happy with its performance.

My advice to you is to build the model first to get an idea of the weight, and see which one makes the most sense. I originally was going to put my OS 1.08 in the Sukhoi, but it would have been very tail heavy, and the model needed more power to pull the weight up hill.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

I've built it, so I know what I'm talking about. I don;t know if that comment was directed at me or not--but I've built it.

A Saito 180 is one of the lightest big glow engines you can buy. I think I recommended that engine in my post.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

I was just wondering why in one sentance you discouraged the use of the ST 2300 because of weight but then suggested a Moki 1.8 . The original post had suggested that cost of the engine was an issue so I personally stayed away from the 4 strokes because of this. For the money I still think that a 2 stroke 120 to 140 is the way to go.


Shawn

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

I didn't mention it in my post, but my 2300 is a sweet sounding engine the way my exhaust is. It has a very throaty sound, and when you blip the throttle for taxiing, it doesn't sound like a chain saw. The 180 is a very nice motor, but it costs almost twice as much, and burns much more fuel. This engine is the best sounding engine I own, with the 1.08 being second.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

I have an OS 1.60 Fx that I could sell you. It is in great shape. Has pitts and 3.5" aluminum spinner.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

i'll let you guys slug it out on the details, but i will make this comment...change that MA prop to a Bolly and you will swear you hung a new engine on the front of the airplane.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

oh, im sorry I didnt mention it is already built! I can usually just pick up a plane and tell if its heavy or not, but i dont know my big stuff. I will however, weigh it on the bathroom scale when i get home from work to get an idea.


mnrcaerobat PMed you. also not to far away here in SD!

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

When you weight the plane toss on the 5-6 servos also, this should give you the total airframe weight or very close .
If its built heavy I would go with the engine that will put out the most power at the lightest weight .And of course something that is in your price range .
2300 ST 30.8 oz w muff 2000-12,600 3.7 Hp @ 12,600 $149.99
OS 160 32.6 W/O muff 1.800-10,000 3.7 HP @ 9,000 $ 279.99
Saito 180 31 OZ W muff $399.99
Saito 150 30 OZ W muff $369.99
YS 120 32 OZ W muff Unknown due to its out of production I just picked one up off ebay for 175.00
OS 120 AX 22.8 OZ W/O muff 3.1 HP @ 9,000 $ 264.99
With the exception of the 120 AX the rest are very close in weight .
Since the 120 AX is a new engine I have not had the chance to see it run or know if it has any new engine quirks.

All in all the ST 2300 with a 50 dollar bisson muffler is the best buy for someone thats on a budget plus it will do the job very nicely.
Hope this helps .

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Thank you Richard!

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Ok just to jump in a question for Cyberwolf. Did you weight the Saito 180 or get the info from a web site? I weighed mine and it came in at 36 oz with muffler. I sold it about 3 weeks ago, due to it was too light for my application. I was going to put it in a Chip Hyde CapX but needed almost 24 oz of weight in the nose to get an aft CG. So I was just curious. Thanks.

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

I'm flying a 1.20 size Staudacher GS-600 that is almost exactly the same dimensions, areas and weight of this plane in question. I've been flying it with an older SuperTigre 2500 and Bisson muffler and it flys great. It turns a 17x6 APC at about 9,600 and has almost unlimited vertical. The plane balances perfectly with no need for weight anywhere and came out at 11.5lbs. My engine is completely stock, carb and all and runs great. I would not hesitate to use the ST2300 at all.

However, the 3250 weights the same as the 2500 and uses the same mounting dimensions and muffler....so, I pulled the 2500 and am breaking in a 3250 to put in it. A few years ago, the Moki 2.10 were all the rage for this size of plane so why all of a sudden its "Too Much Engine" has me confused.

Personally, I feel the 2300 would be fine for the money but if you want to hover and do some 3D then the 3250 will also work.

Mike

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

Hey Mark

I built this g-202 in 2002. It started life with an O.S 120 Surpass III. Altought it wasnt enough engine for it, It flew beautifully. It has very liitle roll and pitch coupling in knife edges and has good downline braking. The rolls are true and axial. the spins start and stop on your command.

I actually buillt it for a pattern cum scale fun machine and I tell you, you can do a masters pattern on it if you have the power. in 2004, I changed the engine with a GMS 120. The plane then had almost unlimited vertical and could hover at full throttle.

I am now putting in a new O.S 140 RX with an OS T 6010 tuned pipe. I am making the necessary modifications, the tunepipe tunnel etc. will keep you guys posted on its progress as it goes.

My g-202 weighs 10.75 pounds and it had JR 4021 servos and a Master airscrew wide bladed 16x8 which it tachs 9000 with 5 % fuel.

I am uploading a picture of it too.

Have fun and fly safe

Tabish

M.A.S.K (Model Aeronautical Society Karachi)

RE: Giles 202 questions
 

I owned a 59" Giles and I loved the performance of the plane. Now, I am looking for building a larger one.

I have followed several threads and the opinions seem to be diverse. Where is the overweight coming from: building techniques or wood quality?

So, is this Midwest Giles a good investment or not?

So, I hope you guys that have built it, and flied it, can give me your impresions.

Thanks
Pedro