RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Start in basic, flying for a score and in front of everyone watching is way different than just doing it. There is no shame in starting basic and you will learn a lot. Remember, the best score wins, so ask yourself the following and answer yourself truthfully:

Are you able to hold a perfectly straight and level line for several hundred feet and can you do a full roll on that line without losing any altitude and causing a heading change, do you know how to make sure you 45 degree lines are actually 45 degrees, are your downlines perfectly straight down. Can you do a perfectly round loop that starts and stops at the same place, Can you do a perfectly round 360 degree aerobatic turn that is exactly 360 degrees and not lose or gain altitude and have the same roll rate coming out as you did going in. Do you know how to center an element on a line.

Are all of the above being done wind corrected?

It's a lot harder than it looks but at the same time it's tons of fun and certainly teaches you how to handle a plane and place it where you want at anytime you want.

Another thing is most likely you will be flying against the same people all the time and being judged by the same judges most of the time. Though a CD tries to pass around judging duties, he sometimes has to rely on the same ones. Most likely you will be judged by the guys flying advanced or higher and they have been there and done that and know exactly what you are going to do before YOU know it, IE they have a good idea where you are going to try to hide your rudder corrections, where you are most likely to come out with the wings unlevel, etc... and can tell quickly that you are 5 degrees off before you see it.

I am sorry if the whole post sounds negative, it really is not meant that way, what I stated is what you need to know plus there are a few things I did not touch on.

Try this on for size. It will tell you just how good your rudder skills are which are needed in all IMAC. You must maintain a level line and you cannot deviate the roll rate or heading, the hesitations between the points must be the same and when you complete the hammer the first 3 or 4 must be opposite of the first one you did before the hammer and the 1/2 rolls must be centered on wherever you are standing.

3 of 4 to the right
1/2 roll to the left
3 of 4 to the right

Hammer (nothing up or down)

3 of 4 to the left
1/2 roll to the right
3 of 4 to the left

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

and the few things you did not touch on are? This is all GREAT info, its not negative at all. I'm excited to begin flying in competition, and want every last ounce of help we can get. I know the first contest isn't until next may, but I want to practice with my foamy tonight :).

Let it out Bill, you are obviously a wealth of information...

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Actually it doesn't sound negative at all. All the variables involved just makes it more fun and challenging!

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Thanks,

everything I am telling is things I picked up from asking questions, talking to the judges, scribing for the higher classes and just being a pain in the butt by asking and I did not want to give you information overload, there is plenty of time. What I am letting you know is everything that took me from a 6th place out of 8 pilots on my first one in basic to 1st place out of 12 pilots in my 5th contest. That contest was tight all weekend and even my raw scores were excellent.

One thing to remember is once you get to sportsman, the thing that really kills new IMAC pilots are the unknowns. These are similar to the knowns that you can practice all you want but the unknowns you are not allowed to practice except with a stick plane, you arms and hands and NOT even on the sim.

In my previous post I added the thing a CD gave me to do that really told me just how bad my rudder control was. Though I could not see it during the contest other did. I also had a tuck I was doing on my 1/2 rolls that I did not see that was costing me 1/2 point but in a full sequence that was a 1.5 point deduction and after 6 flights that's a lot of points when you get down to it. My point is to me, everything looked great until that first time. Even all the people I normally fly with saw a big difference by the time I went to the second contest. My skills definitely improved and the cool thing was I was beating people with 35 and 40 percent Carden's and such with a measly old Comp-Arf 2.3M EXTRA.

I need to act like I'm getting some work done so I'll add more later tonight

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Did you get the short unknown mastered yet, WITHOUT thinking about it??? ;):D. Once you do that and go practice the sequence for reall you should see a huge difference in your lines

One thing I failed to mention yet is a properly trimmed plane and not just the trims on the TX (IE thrust angles, a little forward CG point, things like that), will make life loads easier for you.

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

OK guys, here's an excersize for you. I have uploaded some vieos that someone on another forum made on a sim for each 2008 sequence. Take a look at the basic sequence and see if you can tell where the deductions are. Some are very subtle but are there. One thing to take into account is in a video things are always not what they appear. Here is the basic video. Feel free to PM me or respond in here with where you see the deductions and what they are. Make sure you post the time as shown on the media player. This should get a good debate going.

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/video/imac/Basic2008.wmv

and all the rest of the sequences are at:

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/video/imac/

Now the thing is you may not have had a chance to look over the Aersti stuff or the judging guide so I have uploaded the current ones here. Make sure you get all of them. Read Aresti made easy and the 2008 Judging guide. The guide will tell you where the deductions are and the Aersti made Simple will help you learn how to read Aresti

I recommend you print them all off and make an indexed 3-ring notebook and take it with you. Some of it is dry reading but to be the best you can you do need to know this stuff.

IMC files:

http://www.hiddenhangarrc.com/pdf/imac/

Oh yea, remember one thing about IMAC, it's all about having fun and should you place in the top three, even better :D. We do not get money for this, we sometimes get a plaque and sometimes you get a shirt. I can tell you this, you will make some really cool friends that are a wealth of information. It's not uncommon to have other pilots toss hardware your way when you have a problem just because they want to see you compete and have fun and in most cases they want nothing in return. I discovered this firsthand at my second contest. Coolest thing I ever had happen to me in R/C.

And something else I ran across that means a lot

To quote Pete Goldsmith.
"Learn to fly with your wings Level"

If you know what level wings looks like, geometry of figures becomes much easier.
Take your stick plane, hold it level but have the wings banked 2 or 3 degrees. Pull exactly 90 degrees up and see what the start of that next line looks like. Its messed up. Now not only are you trying to draw a straight line but now you are having to correct for the wings not being square.. Makes for a lot of extra work.

Most of us fly with the wing thats pointing at them slightly low. L wing down flying right to left. R wing down flying left to right.

Have a local IMAC pilot look you over, ask him to be highly critical and listen to him. You may feel bad but if you listen you will learn

To practice break up the sequences into 2 or 3 manuevers, practice them until you can reliably do them and the another set the same when, then put them all together.

Something I like to do is spend 5 minutes doing nothing but the first two maneuvers, then 2 or 3 minutes doing whatever I felt like to take a break, then another 5 minutes doing the same 2 maneuvers. I would continue this until I did all 10 of them, the I would start doing the whole sequence the same way, I do one sequence, do it again and then spend a minute or two doing what I wanted then if fuel allowed did the sequence a third time. One thing I just thought of that you should know is in IMAC, you will do the sequqence twice each time you fly, except for unknowns, those you only do once. Basic has no unknowns, but it's not uncomon for the basic pilots to do their sequence just one time on one flight to help them get used to doing an unknon, it is typically scored as a single sequence and counts towards the total points

And one final thing, attend a judging seminar in your region. Head over to the http://www.mini-iac.com site and look around, it's kinda early yet for the scholls/seminars to be posted but keep coming back to the site and checking.

Just so you all know, I competed in full scale aerobatics for a short time as well as way back in the early days of IMAC along with flying for Rosie O'Gradys in Orlando Fl doing some skywriting. I was out of it for some time do to a heart condition and came back and started back in basic, that was this year. I'm going to sportsman next year and maybe intermediate sometime next year as well but only if I can nail rollers, I just cannot get the timing right, I can do it but it looks like crap. I have a wealth of info to share but I need to work on things as well. Your best source is the guys that have been doing it awhile.

All I can do is give you what I learned some time ago and this past season. To give you an idea of what can happen when you research and listen and do what is suggested, I had people in the NE and SE regions grumbling that it was time I moved up so now they get to deal with me in Sportsman ;) and that was after only 5 contests

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

bill... send me an e-mail to that "other" forum so I can research even more will ya?

[email protected]

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

email sent... grab a favorite beverage and have at it.

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

I'm at work right now :)...... I spend a lot of time on the phone with customers.. so I browse all the websites. Plus with RCU's subscribe notifications sent via e-mail, its easy to stay caught up. I love it!

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

OK so grab a water or soda or wait until you get home. either way there is a lot more there

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Dag on Bill, Are you handing out homework assignments?:) Just kidding. I'll take a look at the video later as I only have a dial- up connection and don't have the time right now to wait an hour for the download. Personally I really don't have the desire/time to compete in IMAC but I REALLY like practicing the sequences to sharpen my skills and give my flying time an actual purpose. The only problem with practicing the sequences is trying to time the other flier's tinkering, fueling, yaking, bragging, flying and crashing so as to get the airspace to myself.;) Kind of hard concentrating while trainers, foamys and warbirds are flailing, dive bombing and dogfighting in the "Box"[>:]. One bonus about getting proficient in the IMAC sequences is the ability to use several of my semi-retired aerobatic glow models that are a little heavy for "extreme aerobatics" but can definitely be used for IMAC practice!

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Tnx for the great info, Bill. This last month one of my flying partners and myself have started working on the Basic routine. I thought I was an intermediate flyer, but now I'm not so sure. I'm sure enjoying it, though. The last few times I've flown I've gotten so engrossed in working on maneuvers that I've almost run out of fuel. Haven't had that problem for a long time.

Regards, Jim

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Jim,

I pretty consistently will run well past my timer when I'm concentrating. Good thing I set it to have about 5 minutes of fuel left over. Yes, I run a much larger tank than I need to. :D

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Hi Bill you have done a great work with the narratives, I live in Mérida, Yucatán. México.
I been flying rc for some time now and used to fly FAI pattern years ago, just a month ago we had our IMAC Nationals in Guadalajara, Jalisco. México it was just great, Mike Mc Conville was one of the judges.

I've read all the thread and sure many of the tips and suggestions you give will improve anyone's fly.

I hope you will soon add the rest of the narratives, so we will take advantage of your experience, please keep on with your tips they 've helped me a lot to improve.

Txs for your time writing down the narratives and colaboration to keep IMAC up in México.
sorry for the orthograph mistakes :D

Sincerly.
Rafa

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Only took one quick look at the Basic vid. I didn't note the times at which I think I saw some deductions but heres some that I think I saw.

Loop exit higher than entry.
Slight push at peak of up-line before pulling to 45 downline on reverse sharkstooth.
Slight loss of alt on 360 deg. turn
1/2 roll on inverted 45 deg. down line in rev. shk tooth not centered.
slight correction of down line just after 1 1/2 spin.
loss of alt during level flight between some manuevers...maybe??......hard to tell for sure on the sim and not sure if deduction???

Maybe one or two others I cant recall now....gotta get back to work like some others....lol.

Steve

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Damn,,
I didnt know I was being graded over here. [:@]


In all seriousness, the videos are not anywhere near perfect. I put them online so people could see the flow of each maneuver in the sequences.
I hope the videos are answering some questions you guys have.

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Wgeffon,

The Video looks GREAT.....very smooth and precise as well as doing what you intended....showing the maneuvers and their sequence. I read through this post quickly yesterday and maybe mis-understood what I read. I thought there were some minor "flaws" intentionally put in for people to try and pick out to get a little more dialoque flowing. I also realize it is probably very difficult to make a 100% perfect vid due to the "distorted pilot perspective" caused by only having a small screen to work with. I certainly was not trying to be an "unfair judge". I wish I could fly my real ones that smooth and accurately.

I have been hoping to get to some contests the past two summers but haven't made it. Hopefully this year! Watching this video will definitely be a big help in preparation.....THANKS!!!!!!

Steve

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Steve,

There are definately downgrades on each video. More so on the upper class ones like Advanced and Unlimited.
Using them for Judging is great.

Have at it.

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Well I just registered for my first IMAC event being held June21, 22 at our club field in Hamilton, OH. Thanks to bubbagates for writing the narrative and providing all these good tips. I will work on getting a throttle curve set up in my radio like he described and getting the plane trimmed out. I don't have what is really considered an IMAC plane, it's the GP Giant Aeromaster. There is another guy on the club with one and I hope he gives IMAC a try as well. One other club member other than our CD has registered.

Do you guys switch to high rates for some of the maneuvers such as high rate rudder for the hammerhead and 360 turn, and maybe both rudder and elevator for the spin? Even I know it's much more difficult to mainain smooth flying with more deflection on the surfaces.

Last year there was video of a guy flying the entier basic sequence. Hopefully someone has posted one for this year's routine.

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

The Hamilton contest is one of the best ones in our region.
You guys will have a great time.

RE: 2008 Basic Narrative
 

Hi Wayne,

I'm back as a new user (old one was bubbagates) anyway, I was not trying to pick apart the videos. In fact I wanted everyone to look at them and try to find flaws based on the tips I had already provided. This helps them in learning how to actually fly the maneuver as you well know and it's really hard to unlearn something that you are doing wrong.

When I first started out I was practicing on my own and thought I was doing well. I finally got an experienced IMAC pilot to have a look at me and I ended up unlearning a lot of things

A good example would be the 1.5 turn spin. It would be nice to always come out with the nose pointing straight down but that cannot always happen so it is acceptable to do a push to get the downline established just don't push too much. I like using a downline mix to make my downlines straight, This certainly helps when coming out of the spin, all I do is relieve pressure on the sticks and the end of the spin and the mix lowers the nose for me so it looks like a very fluid thing. I can actually see it happen if I turn the mix off and do the same maneuver. The plane takes a bit longer to lower it's nose unless I help it and it's not as fluid looking.

So please accept my apologies, I was not tearing the videos apart. Heck I downloaded everyone of them and have watched them all more than once. They are truly excellent and I can certainly appreciate the hard work it took to create them.