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Engine performance of 3W 75
Can anyone tell me what kind of performace one can expect from a 3W 75 engine on a 25-10 or a 26-10 prop. I might pick up a used combo from a friend and want to know what I might expect performace wise. It is going in a Giles 202
The plane is a Lanier kit 95" WS and was flying on a converted 80 weedeater engine and weighed in at about 22 lbs. Would the 3w 75 be a good engine for this bird. Just not familiar with this size engine class. If not what might be a good airframe for this engine. Thanks in advance. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
I assume you are looking at an IMAC combo since you posted here... At 22 pounds I think the 75 will be just fine. If you want to 3D with it I wouldn't expect it to jump out of hover, but will be 3Dable.
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RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
The 3W 75 Classic engines are fine in themselves but a bit heavy and expensive compared with the competition - 5.25lbs vs. 4.3lbs for a ZDZ80 or a DA-85. The 3W 75US, is just a bit lighter at 4.9lbs ($615). The red headed 3W 75TS CS, is a bit heavier at 5.4lbs and listed at $1155.00, which gives you an idea how disconnected from reality the folks at 3W are these days... If you were to buy one, the one to get would be the 3W 75TS at 8HP (more powerful) but normally costs $200 more from Cactus. At $815 MSRP for the 75TS, the DA-85 is a much better deal at $795). Unless you are getting a great deal on this package, don't take it... |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
Thank you guys, that was the info I was looking for. I was leaning towards the DA 85, but had an opportunity to get a 3W 75. Basicly a dinosuar in terms of whats avail. now for a few more $$$$. Thanks again.
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RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
I have a 3W75US in a 23lb 33% Laser 200. It's swinging a 26x10 Menz prop. It will rip the prop when it is a touch over 3/4 thottle. It hovers a click over 1/4 throttle and the pull out is ballistic. It dosen't lack for power. It only has 5 gal. of fuel through it and it keeps getting stronger. I'm going to put it in the new Hanger9 Suhkoi instead of DA85, for it only weighs 4oz. more.
Carl |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
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So a 3W 75US in an 18lb Yak should be just fine?:D
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RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
"which gives you an idea how disconnected from reality the folks at 3W are these days... "
Umm,not really.Try watching the news....Maybe you will then see exactly how weak the dollar is vs the euro. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
3W installs (3) bearings on the crankshaft, instead of (2) like DA/ZDZ use. It is supposed to provide much better crankshaft support, less vibration, and increased longevity.
The dual counterbalance crankshaft also helps decrease vibration and resonance, vs. only a single counterbalance. The downside is a little more weight, but your airframe/radio equipment should last longer as well [sm=teeth_smile.gif] ............... They also come with a three year warranty - Does anyone else do that???? |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: vertical ts "which gives you an idea how disconnected from reality the folks at 3W are these days... " Umm,not really.Try watching the news....Maybe you will then see exactly how weak the dollar is vs the euro. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
My comment was meant in a different way. When comparing the dry the stats between comparable engines from manufacturers such as BME, Brillelli, ZDZ and DA to a similar 3W engine, you get much more for the money for these former brands - hands down. For example, a 3W 50cc class engine has absolutely no advantage over a DA-50R, yet costs more. Same thing is true for 75 to 85cc class, 100cc class, etc. until 150cc. 3W Makes probably more sense when comparing in the higher sizes (until DA releases the 170) and certainly at 200cc and more (I think ZDZ has a large one). So in fact, you get less for the money for a 3W and the manufacturer and/or importer, have not adjusted pricing to be competitive in the American market. Therefore, I see very little comparative advantages in 3W engines, at their current prices. I also do not see advantages in terms of weight to power ratio, or quality, that might justify this gap. This gets even less favorable for 3W with the new Chinese engines, like the DL, although their quality (the Chinese) is debatable. I am struggling with the Euro vs. Dollar argument, since ZDZ is produced in the Euro zone, yet their prices are competitive in the US. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: yarom My comment was meant in a different way. When comparing the dry the stats between comparable engines from manufacturers such as BME, Brillelli, ZDZ and DA to a similar 3W engine, you get much more for the money for these former brands - hands down. For example, a 3W 50cc class engine has absolutely no advantage over a DA-50R, yet costs more. Same thing is true for 75 to 85cc class, 100cc class, etc. until 150cc. 3W Makes probably more sense when comparing in the higher sizes (until DA releases the 170) and certainly at 200cc and more (I think ZDZ has a large one). So in fact, you get less for the money for a 3W and the manufacturer and/or importer, have not adjusted pricing to be competitive in the American market. Therefore, I see very little comparative advantages in 3W engines, at their current prices. I also do not see advantages in terms of weight to power ratio, or quality, that might justify this gap. This gets even less favorable for 3W with the new Chinese engines, like the DL, although their quality (the Chinese) is debatable. I am struggling with the Euro vs. Dollar argument, since ZDZ is produced in the Euro zone, yet their prices are competitive in the US. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: yarom For example, a 3W 50cc class engine has absolutely no advantage over a DA-50R, yet costs more. Same thing is true for 75 to 85cc class, 100cc class, etc. until 150cc. 3W Makes probably more sense when comparing in the higher sizes (until DA releases the 170) and certainly at 200cc and more (I think ZDZ has a large one). So in fact, you get less for the money for a 3W and the manufacturer and/or importer, have not adjusted pricing to be competitive in the American market. So it would seem that you get 10% MORE displacement for the SAME price, and a much more ruggedly built (although heavier) engine!!!!!!! It is rated at 5.5HP (vs DA's 5.0), and it comes with a 3-year warranty. OR, you can spend a little more ($715), and get the 3W-55iCS that's exactly the same weight, but rated at 6.5HP............................ Sorry if this is causing any controversy (Don't confuse me with the facts!!!!!!! :D). |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
It's really a question of taste. I have nothing against the DA, 50 or 100, at their current weight and customer service.
The 3Ws I played with were too heavy for the displacement and what they provided in return. I am sure they are very high quality and all... |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
If LIGHT WEIGHT is one of the overriding concerns, then DA/DL/ZDZ are obviously the way to go (if they have the displacement you're looking for).......
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RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
"you get much more for the money for these former brands - hands down. "
This doesn't sound like just a matter of taste, if that is what you meant. Of course, more crank counter balance, extra bearings, beefier mounting hard points and such, will come at a cost of some weight but we are talking ounces here not pounds, and what you get in return is 1/2 to 1 full HP more of power (in spite of rear induction vs. side) to more than offset those ounces. If you strip away all the hype, and just look at the facts, 3W is among the best options out there at any price. Weight is given way too much press. Power makes weight disappear. Haven't you ever wondered what these engine designers are sacrificing to get their engines lighter and lighter? Compare 3W to the other ones mentioned and you will see. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: BTerry ORIGINAL: vertical ts "which gives you an idea how disconnected from reality the folks at 3W are these days... " Umm,not really.Try watching the news....Maybe you will then see exactly how weak the dollar is vs the euro. $ 115.00 now versus about $ 65.00 a year ago. The EURO has gone up versus the Dollar about 21%. 1.5800 Dollars for 1 Euro now versus 1.3100 a year ago. That means that the price of oil has gone up for people in the EURO zone by the difference of about 59% in EURO terms. The cost of oil is therefore not about the same as a year ago for the EURO zone. The EURO zone’s higher currency has softened the blow for them by about 21% as oil is priced worldwide in US-Dollars. 3W prices, ZDZ prices have not gone up 21% during the last year. In fact, some prices are even lower than a year ago. The manufacturers and/or importers of these engines have found ways to keep their prices competitive in the US market. Either they were able to cut cost out of the production process or they are willing to live with a smaller profit margin or both |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
This is correct only to the extent where the engine choice significantly affects your CG. If I know I will be nose heavy, I will prefer the lighter option and forego all the extra stuff for a well balanced plane without extra lead in the tail. I am kind of surprised by this extra 1/2 to 1 HP provided by the 3W information. In the 50cc category, the DA seemed to pull as good or better than similar displacement 3Ws (I guess that would be the 55cc) using 23x8 or 24x8 with pipe. I am still happy to sacrifice the extra ball bearing, beefier mounting, extra 1/2HP and such for a lighter wing loading. On the EF Yak 88', I have never needed more than the 5HP provided by the DA. I have seen many people using that engine, the DL50 or the Brillelli 366. Have not seen one mounted with a 3W. I would be interested in the performance and weight they get - what prop is used, what rpm they get, etc. On the 35% Extra (AW or similar at 26lbs.), I have never needed more than a DA-100 to get unlimited vertical. I initially mounted a BME 110 but opted against for balance reasons and the possible lack of support... ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU "you get much more for the money for these former brands - hands down. " This doesn't sound like just a matter of taste, if that is what you meant. Of course, more crank counter balance, extra bearings, beefier mounting hard points and such, will come at a cost of some weight but we are talking ounces here not pounds, and what you get in return is 1/2 to 1 full HP more of power (in spite of rear induction vs. side) to more than offset those ounces. If you strip away all the hype, and just look at the facts, 3W is among the best options out there at any price. Weight is given way too much press. Power makes weight disappear. Haven't you ever wondered what these engine designers are sacrificing to get their engines lighter and lighter? Compare 3W to the other ones mentioned and you will see. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
We are talking a few ounces of weight difference at most. In the 50cc class and up, I just can't see any wing loading issues and the CG on all my planes is easily adjusted with batteries. I never need or use dead weight like lead. The increase in HP more than covers the few ounces.
We could go on and on, but the charge was that you get a better 'value' with these other brands over 3W. I don't believe the facts will back this up. That isn't to say that the other engines mentioned in this thread are not good engines. They are. And I have used most on them over the years. I still like my 3Ws for all the reasons mentioned above. One not mentioned, and one that also gets a bad weight wrap is FPE. Also a favorite of mine for it's domestic source (PA), user friendly ways, billet crank case, power output, reliable ignition (even though now made in China for C&H) and durability. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: yarom It's really a question of taste. I have nothing against the DA, 50 or 100, at their current weight and customer service. The 3Ws I played with were too heavy for the displacement and what they provided in return. I am sure they are very high quality and all... This always cracks me up. People swear the 3W's are heavy. They're not, it's just that 3W advertises their engine weights with EVERYTHING included except ign. battery. Unlike DA or even ZDZ where they exclude EVERYTHING even the plug. So, do as I did and compare what the 3w-85I CS weighs rtf vs. a ZDZ-80 RV-J ( on a digital scale) and you will see they are less than 4 ounces difference. Yup, them 3W's are pigs :eek: |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: yarom This is correct only to the extent where the engine choice significantly affects your CG. If I know I will be nose heavy, I will prefer the lighter option and forego all the extra stuff for a well balanced plane without extra lead in the tail. I am kind of surprised by this extra 1/2 to 1 HP provided by the 3W information. In the 50cc category, the DA seemed to pull as good or better than similar displacement 3Ws (I guess that would be the 55cc) using 23x8 or 24x8 with pipe. I am still happy to sacrifice the extra ball bearing, beefier mounting, extra 1/2HP and such for a lighter wing loading. On the EF Yak 88', I have never needed more than the 5HP provided by the DA. I have seen many people using that engine, the DL50 or the Brillelli 366. Have not seen one mounted with a 3W. I would be interested in the performance and weight they get - what prop is used, what rpm they get, etc. On the 35% Extra (AW or similar at 26lbs.), I have never needed more than a DA-100 to get unlimited vertical. I initially mounted a BME 110 but opted against for balance reasons and the possible lack of support... ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU "you get much more for the money for these former brands - hands down. " This doesn't sound like just a matter of taste, if that is what you meant. Of course, more crank counter balance, extra bearings, beefier mounting hard points and such, will come at a cost of some weight but we are talking ounces here not pounds, and what you get in return is 1/2 to 1 full HP more of power (in spite of rear induction vs. side) to more than offset those ounces. If you strip away all the hype, and just look at the facts, 3W is among the best options out there at any price. Weight is given way too much press. Power makes weight disappear. Haven't you ever wondered what these engine designers are sacrificing to get their engines lighter and lighter? Compare 3W to the other ones mentioned and you will see. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
The 27x10 engine is the DA-85. The DA-100 is a Mej 28x10 engine for me, once broken in. What is the price and weight (all included) comparison between the 3W 85CS and the DA-85? I show the 3W at 5.05 lbs. and $895 and the DA at 4.3 lbs. and $795... Not sure it includes muffler (9oz.) and ignition... |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: yarom The 27x10 engine is the DA-85. The DA-100 is a Mej 28x10 engine for me, once broken in. What is the price and weight (all included) comparison between the 3W 85CS and the DA-85? I show the 3W at 5.05 lbs. and $895 and the DA at 4.3 lbs. and $795... Not sure it includes muffler (9oz.) and ignition... As I said, the 3W advertised weight is complete with ignition module, plug etc... The Da's weight is minus module, plug and even prop bolt hub and bolts. If you shop around, you will see that the prices are identical to each other. By the way, the Da 85 and 3W both will swing 28x10 lumbar just as good as the 100's. |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
ORIGINAL: yarom What is the price and weight (all included) comparison between the 3W 85CS and the DA-85? I show the 3W at 5.05 lbs. and $895 and the DA at 4.3 lbs. and $795... Not sure it includes muffler (9oz.) and ignition... 3W-85xiCS is $895 and rated 10.0HP. They're both listed at 5.05 lbs. I've never been able to find out much technical info about the DA-85 (It's not even listed on DA's own website!!!!!!) |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
Hey DA fans,
What's the scoop on the DA-85 anyhow??? What's the HP rating, AUW with plug, ingition, muffler, etc.??????? DA still refuses to list the thing on their own website.........http://desertaircraft.com/ !!!!!!!! |
RE: Engine performance of 3W 75
I guess that DA is selling them so fast they do not want to advertise? :eek: ;)
There is plenty of information available: [link=http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg68/]such as here.[/link] |
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