Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
11-03-2011, 05:05 AM
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Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
Eric,
I hope you can come up with an idea and put me on the right track. I finally put my BeeII ks in my F-106A. Last week we tried to fly it. The turbine starts great no flame thanks to you! After about a 50 foot roll out, the turbine flamed out with a large, large puff of white smoke. We went back to the pits and ran it up two more times. Each time ended with a flame out. Using clear fuel line we could see no bubbles. I disconnected the UAT and ran the turbine . This time it ran up with no problem. In all honesty though , this run up only lasted about 30 seconds which maybe did not give the turbine time to go bad. The time lapse on the first flame out, the actual flight attempt, was probably two minutes in to the run. Anyway I removed the UAT checked it out resealed it and changed my fuel lines. Then replaced the UAT. I did a pump test on both lines and everything tested perfect. Lines were all purged of air. . The pump started slow and gained speed and quickly filled a small bottle. I then tried to run up the turbine. It started easily I increased to full power , I noticed no bubbles but after about 20 seconds or so white smoke and a flame out except this time the Hand data unit said speed low, not flame out! I let things cool down and tried another start. The turbine once again started perfectly but this time after about 10 seconds with the stick in the idle position it flamed out but not a lot of smoke this time. The hand held unit said Speedlow. The temp. was around 490 and rpms were 39000 which would trigger a shut down. No bubbles were seen. Any ideas or thought? Could I have a bad speed sensor? I can not understand why at nearly 180000 it would say speedlow?
Thanks a million
Glenn Corrie
I hope you can come up with an idea and put me on the right track. I finally put my BeeII ks in my F-106A. Last week we tried to fly it. The turbine starts great no flame thanks to you! After about a 50 foot roll out, the turbine flamed out with a large, large puff of white smoke. We went back to the pits and ran it up two more times. Each time ended with a flame out. Using clear fuel line we could see no bubbles. I disconnected the UAT and ran the turbine . This time it ran up with no problem. In all honesty though , this run up only lasted about 30 seconds which maybe did not give the turbine time to go bad. The time lapse on the first flame out, the actual flight attempt, was probably two minutes in to the run. Anyway I removed the UAT checked it out resealed it and changed my fuel lines. Then replaced the UAT. I did a pump test on both lines and everything tested perfect. Lines were all purged of air. . The pump started slow and gained speed and quickly filled a small bottle. I then tried to run up the turbine. It started easily I increased to full power , I noticed no bubbles but after about 20 seconds or so white smoke and a flame out except this time the Hand data unit said speed low, not flame out! I let things cool down and tried another start. The turbine once again started perfectly but this time after about 10 seconds with the stick in the idle position it flamed out but not a lot of smoke this time. The hand held unit said Speedlow. The temp. was around 490 and rpms were 39000 which would trigger a shut down. No bubbles were seen. Any ideas or thought? Could I have a bad speed sensor? I can not understand why at nearly 180000 it would say speedlow?
Thanks a million
Glenn Corrie
11-03-2011, 06:04 AM
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RE: Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
When a turbine flames out with a smoke trail, this means an air bubble has passed through the fuel system reaching the turbine. The turbine flames out due to no fuel, and hence the trail of white smoke. Second reason is total fuel starvation. . . which may be verified by looking at the fuel line from fuel solenoid to turbine.
Speed low is recorded when rpm drops below the minimum operating rpm programmed in the I.C.S. (ECU) during any running phase.
Flame out is recorded when fuel fails or is interpreted during normal operation.
It looks like you have completed the steps I would have recommended. I suggest after verifying your fuel system to be free of any possible air compromise, you start the turbine, and rapidly move the model by holding the nose. Do this at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle. While doing so, observe the fuel system as best you can. Holding the jet in unusual attitudes will help as well.
If your fuel is fresh. . .no water etc, you should be OK.
Last, you stated you removed the bubble free tank and the symptom seemed to be eliminated. I suggest a thorough examination or possible replacement of this tank prior to flying. Perhaps doing a leak test with 2 -5 psi while holding the tank under water.
Let us know what you find.
Best regards,
Eric
Speed low is recorded when rpm drops below the minimum operating rpm programmed in the I.C.S. (ECU) during any running phase.
Flame out is recorded when fuel fails or is interpreted during normal operation.
It looks like you have completed the steps I would have recommended. I suggest after verifying your fuel system to be free of any possible air compromise, you start the turbine, and rapidly move the model by holding the nose. Do this at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle. While doing so, observe the fuel system as best you can. Holding the jet in unusual attitudes will help as well.
If your fuel is fresh. . .no water etc, you should be OK.
Last, you stated you removed the bubble free tank and the symptom seemed to be eliminated. I suggest a thorough examination or possible replacement of this tank prior to flying. Perhaps doing a leak test with 2 -5 psi while holding the tank under water.
Let us know what you find.
Best regards,
Eric
11-06-2011, 03:07 PM
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RE: Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
Billj,
My friend Bobby and I spent about two hours on Saturday trying to find the problem. We called Eric , who was very supportive. We came up with a bad UAT........not really sure why it is bad. But after making the fuel line changes that Eric suggested we ran up the turbine and it flamed out. We removed the UAT and everything worked as advertised. Did about four runs without the UAT and it run well. We tried a pressure test by putting the UAT under water and inflating it....there were no bubbles, yet the turbine will not run with this UAT. I have a UAT hooked up in another plane with 75 flights on it and I am thinking of trying that UAT. I do want to run a UAT.
Glenn
My friend Bobby and I spent about two hours on Saturday trying to find the problem. We called Eric , who was very supportive. We came up with a bad UAT........not really sure why it is bad. But after making the fuel line changes that Eric suggested we ran up the turbine and it flamed out. We removed the UAT and everything worked as advertised. Did about four runs without the UAT and it run well. We tried a pressure test by putting the UAT under water and inflating it....there were no bubbles, yet the turbine will not run with this UAT. I have a UAT hooked up in another plane with 75 flights on it and I am thinking of trying that UAT. I do want to run a UAT.
Glenn
11-06-2011, 04:01 PM
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RE: Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
You must be the fellow Eric mentioned today... My UAT is brand new....No to say there could not be a problem....I'll check into it for sure...
Thanks for the reply
Thanks for the reply
11-06-2011, 05:33 PM
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RE: Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
Billj,
My UAT was a new Hanson. Tonight I opened it up and the parts in the middle were missing. They show a micro filter in the drawing all I had was a bag. What a rip off.. plane and simple.........
Glenn
My UAT was a new Hanson. Tonight I opened it up and the parts in the middle were missing. They show a micro filter in the drawing all I had was a bag. What a rip off.. plane and simple.........
Glenn
11-07-2011, 07:57 AM
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RE: Flame out /speedlow..HELP!
Is this sorted out yet? If so, great....what was the root cause? If not I have a few questions about your configuration....
Can you give me exact details of your configuration? How many tanks in the system, are they in series, parallel, or series-parallel? What type and size is your fuel line? How long is the feed line to the pump? When EXACTLY does it flame out, at idle or max power, or?
Hope you get your issue resolved quickly!
Can you give me exact details of your configuration? How many tanks in the system, are they in series, parallel, or series-parallel? What type and size is your fuel line? How long is the feed line to the pump? When EXACTLY does it flame out, at idle or max power, or?
Hope you get your issue resolved quickly!
