Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Jet Central customers have responded very favorably about the use and start up with our new ceramic igniter. All report a much lower "start gas" parameter setting as well as instant starts followed by aggressive preheat going into fuel ramp. Nothing could please us more. However, some have called or emailed with complaints of "Low battery" warnings during their first start attempts. Routinely, the problem is traced quickly to the condition of the ECU battery. Some we have found are really not completely educated with their particular charger or the charge condition of their ECU battery.
Today I received this email from one of our Super Bee customers, Dennis Blades. Dennis writes:

Hi Eric,

Finally got a chance to fire up the Super Bee (been cold up and snowy up here in Delaware)

I charged the batteries – 8.1 volts when I started the Super Bee last night. I took your advice and watched the volts draw on the HDT during the start sequence.

Voltage dropped from 8.1 to 6.9 for a couple seconds as the plug was heating up and then went up to 7 and started climbing as the propane light and ramp up.

So – my starting problem was that my batteries were not charged enough and dropped below the 6 volt cutoff (didn’t realize ceramic plug would draw that much – lesson learned!!!!).

Thanks for continued help and support.

Dennis

Thank you Dennis for the follow up and your words of wisdom. Any and all questions are always welcome at Jet Central. . .just about any time of the day. We will get back with you via this forum, email or telephone call. BTW, the information (battery volts/amps) is available to every user. . .just menu up to the next screen of data after the start menu screen.

See you at a jet meet soon. . . .

Eric

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Eric,

I have a similar experience. I was going to call you to discuss. The new ceramic igniter does work very well. My rabbit instantaneously ignites! But I was getting low battery msgs after a couple starts. Pack was fully charged - I was using the included 7.4V duralite pack.

I ended up putting a wattmeter on the battery since I kept getting the msgs. It turns out at a plug setting of 200 I am pulling 18 amps of current! At 225 I was pulling 19A. So not a lot of difference going up, but the base current draw for the ceramic igniter seems huge. The duralite li-ions just cant handle that. They are rated for 10A max and then their internal switch is most likely kicking in to save the batteries.

Anyway, I ended up using a 2s lipoly pack since it can handle these types of current draws. No problems after that...

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

My Super Bee came with a 2600 mAh Li-Ion 2 cell, 7.4v battery. When I sent my ICS to Eric for upgrade to use the ceramic plug Eric told me to use a 4 cell as 2 cell could not handle the draw of the ceramic plug.

Now using 4 cell, 7.4v, 5200 mAh Li-Ion battery.

My problem - I have not been able to start turbine using the on board propane can. I wanted to start turbine using a new gas valve (non-regulated) to fill on board can and thought that the 7.1v on battery would be enough to start.

After a few tries and getting a low bettery message I emailed Eric and he told me to watch voltage on the HDT during start sequence.

Being new to turbines and taking Eric's advice I then realized that the 1.2 or so volt draw of the ceramic plug was causing voltage to drop below the 6v cutoff.

Charged battery fully and Super Bee started and ran perfectly. BTW new propane valve filled the on board can.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

That is good to know. My rabbit came with one of these:
http://duraliteflightsystems.com/bat...?product_id=53

which are 5200mAH 2s2p packs. Problem is they are protected at 2c rate, around 10 amps. Not sure if the bee igniter takes less current than the rabbit one. All I know is that the rabbit igniter I have sinks 19 amps - and that the li-ions just cant do that.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Jim, one of my Rabbits has that l-ion pack and Ihaven't had that error? My other Rabbit has the Li-Mg pack and no probs there either.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

That is kind of odd. Have you ever measured the current draw on your igniter? I know my li-ions just cant source 20A for very long.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Any of you guys tried a two cell A123 battery? they are able to take a much higher current draw.

Mike

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Mike,

A123 will work fine for the external element (glow plug style) but not with the Rabbit's internal element - not enough juice. Iwish it did - Iwould go all 123's on rx and ecu.

Jim,

Never checked it - dunno how I've gotten away with it but oh well! http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Well how about three cells? or is that too much? can the ECU be converted to use three cells? or can you use a suplimentary battery externally?

Mike

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Its not the voltage that is the problem but current draw from the batts. So 3 cells doesnt buy you anything since the element can probably only take so much voltage.

Anyway, not sure if different plugs are sinking different amounts of current. What is your glow plug power set to smitty?

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Jim: I'll check and get back with you - we can't use a 9.9 batt with our ECU Mike. Ihave however considered a parallel "y" and using an offboard Lipo battery for starts and unhooking it and flying on the 6.6 A123.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

I had the same problem with my Rabbit and the 5200 LiIon that came with the engine (don't know the brand but it was NOT a Duralite ???)

Anyway, I bought a Duralite Lithium Manganese 2s2p pack which has a much higher discarge rate. Engine now starts great! Did hate having to shell out and extra 100+ to replace the factory pack. [:o]

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Mach1 - you probably got the TBMpack. I've had many good ones and also quite a few drop a cell - luckily, always on the ground. Ithink we're in a transition in battery chemistries and hopefully there will start to be more of a "standard issue" battery with JC.

The other issue relates to kero start - i feel like we're probably close on that and that could dictate certain battery needs. It does seem like the future would be in the A123 or Lipo area. It may even be better if they shipped without a battery and knocked it off the price so the end user could pick their chemistry?

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

For you guys using 2s A123 and the ceramic igniter:<div>
</div><div>I am using a 4600 2s A123 (genuine A123) for my ECU that is supposed to handle something like 125 amps continuous and 250 amps burst. However, when I initiate the start-up, I am getting a low battery warning and no start. I watched the voltage on the HDT and it drops from 6.8 to about 6.6. Was anyone else having this same issue? If the pack can handle 125-250 amps, the 15 amp draw of the igniter shouldn't be a problem.</div><div>
</div><div>I have already been in touch with Eric and he is working with me on it, I am just curious what other people's experience has been for this particular combination.</div>

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

gruntled:

If you have a 7.4 2s2p LiPo battery of 30C and at least 3000Mah, please fully charge and try this combination. Seems to work very well.

Igniter install: use the supplied washer, then thread into the turbine. Place ground strap under one of the Mounting strap lugs. Works great.

Let us know if you have further issue.

Regards,
Eric

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Thanks Eric. I had been staying away from Lipo because I wanted to charge the battery without removing it from the aircraft and I needed extra weight up front. I may have to go that route though. I was just curious how others were making out with A123 on that igniter as maybe my pack is going bad or something.<div></div><div>Thanks again for your help both here and by email.</div>

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Gruntled,

I'm using an A123 4600 2S2P http://www.electrodynam.com/store/product270.html for my Rhino with the igniter. Works great! I've never experienced the problem that you've described.

Also, I tried moving the ground strap as Eric described and it did not ground. I'm not sure why it didn't ground, but I had to move the strap back to the igniter.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Thank you Mike that is helpful. When it failed to ground, what error or message did it generate?

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

Using the HDT, the Glow Test would not display and the start sequence would not proceed. I tried mounting the ground wire several ways to the turbine mount (i.e. between the bolt head and washer, between the washer and strap, etc.) and could never get it to work. I'm sure that I had something goofed up, so I just went back to what I had been using before. The installation order that I use at the igniter is.....washer, ground wire, then igniter.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

OK - that is not like the error I saw, so I assume my ground was OK. I am leaning toward thinking my pack is maybe going south.

RE: Ceramic Igniter and ECU battery
 

I started also having this "Low Battery" issue with a returned from repair Super Eagle that was sent back to me with the ceramic plug and a brand new Duralight 5200mha Ion battery. I only have about 6 flights on my new plane plane and this is driving me nutts. Love the ceramic plug when it works. Mine was sporatic and would start sometimes ok but not at other times. After thinking it was something wrong with the rest of the electronics I discovered if I did a glow test it would simply jump out of the menu and not even give me the chance to turn off the test in the data terminal. That's how I finally figured out what was casuing my problems. This afternoon I have pulled the ceramic plug from the plane and went back to a standard plug until I can get this resolved. Anybody that has come up with a work around let me know. This is a brand new Li-ion pack and the voltage reading on the terminal said 8.4 volts..

Thanks!

Mike