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Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Old 04-04-2012, 08:21 PM
  #1  
scitech
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Default Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Need some help. Great friend passed away recently (I have a hunch some of you may know him - here is the BLOG link: Spirit of St. Louis.
I ended up with his Bird of Time and JR9302 2.4 Radio. He was a sailplane pilot. I'm not. I fly with power on the left stick. He has the JR 9303 setup with the spoiler stick for the spoilers and the left side slide switch for the motor.

This is what I have:
    [*]JR X9303 2.4[*]Receiver: AR7000[*]4 Servos[*]1 for elevator[*]1 for rudder[*]1 servo for left spoiler[*]1 servo for right spoiler[/list]

    Receiver is setup like this
      [*]Aux 2 - ESC[*]Aux 1 - Left Spoiler (ch 6)[*]Gear - Right Spoiler (ch 5)[*]Rudd - rudder[*]Elef - elevator[*]Aile - open[*]Throt - open[/list]I have been spending time with the owner's manual, the internet, and the Sherman Knight Setup and I'm making progress. However, I value the opinions of others.I would like to fly the B.O.T. with the throttle on the left stick, rudder and elevator on the right stick and the spoilers on the left side slide.At this point all of my sailplanes are powered so I have the mind set of using the left stick for power.

      Can anyone help me with this setup, or at least point me in the right direction.
      Thanks in advance for your help.
Old 04-05-2012, 07:51 AM
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AWorrest
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4



I’m going to assume your Bird of Time is just rudder, elevator, spoilers and motor. As this is a RES sailplane that has been motorized and you want to put the throttle on the left stick, there is not much reason for using the GLID configuration programming. The benefit of using GLID is you can more easily change the wing’s camber (which your plane isn’t capable of doing) and you can use the throttle stick for landing control (which you don’t want to do).



I recommend you set it up like a powered plane in ACRO. Put the ESC on the throttle channel. That way you can control the motor with the left stick easily. I’m assuming you are flying mode 2. If you want both the rudder and elevator on the right stick, put the rudder on the aileron channel.



Use the flap channels for the spoilers as ACRO has no preset mixes for spoilers. In the DeviceSEL, set the outputs for AUX2, 3, and 4 to INH. The easiest way to proceed is to use the flap system as you can use the FLAP SYS menu in the function list to set up the spoilers and the elevator. The disadvantage is that you have only three spoiler settings, closed, partially open, and fully open. Most sailplane pilots would want more control over the spoilers for precise landing. If you go with the FLAP SYS, just leave the flap channel output in the DeviceSEL as SYS. Pick either of the 3-position switches (FLAP SW or AUX2 SW) for the controlling device.



If you want to have to have proportional control over the spoilers, set the FLAP out to ACT. Then pick which side slider you want to control the spoilers. The FLAP LEV is the left lever.



Next go to the WING TYPE menu and mate the FLAP channel to AUX2. If you used AUX3, you will get the added trim function option which allows you to set the position of one spoiler in relation to the other. I don’t think you will need this.



Now if you are using the FLAP SYS for the spoilers, you should go to the FLAP SYS menu in the function list and set the spoiler and elevator positions for the switch positions. The default flap positions are Norm - U100%, Mid - 0%, and Land - D100%. If you leave these settings and adjust your spoiler servo arms so the spoilers are closed in the Norm setting, you will get maximum spoiler action. If you set Norm to 0% and Mid to something like D50%, your spoiler servo travel will be lessened. The elevator settings will have to be found by trial and error when flying the plane. Don’t be surprised that you will have push the nose down some when the spoilers are partially deployed but have to pull the nose up when the spoilers are fully deployed.



If you are using the sliders for spoilers, then you will have to use either program mix #1 or #2 so to have a curve mix. Mix either LLVR or RLVR, depending on which you chosen for the FLAP channel device in the DeviceSEL menu, to ELEV. Here again, the curve will have to be set up by flight trial and error.



As sailplanes are very capable of flying out of sight without the pilot’s assistance, set up the receiver failsafe in case you fly beyond the transmitter’s range. With the ESC on the throttle channel, you could use smart failsafe to turn the motor off. A better solution is to use preset failsafe so you can set the failsafe positions for all the channels. Unless your AR7000 is a very early model, it should have preset failsafe as an undocumented feature. Preset failsafe is set by putting the receiver in the bind mode. Before you turn on the transmitter, remove the bind plug from the receiver. The LED’s will continue to flash. Position all the transmitter channels to their failsafe settings before pressing the bind button while turning the transmitter on.

Use the transmitter's Moitor menu and wiggle the sticks to see how the channels are allocated. On the Monitor, the function in the upper left corner is channel #1 on the receiver. Below that is channel #2 etc.



Allan

Old 04-05-2012, 05:13 PM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,

Thank you!!! I am now making great progress. I set up the B.O.T. as you suggested using ACRO. Took some time to get the throttle working. When I re-bound the radio - it worked.
I'm new to the 2.4 technology - but I'm a believer in reading manuals and I learn fast.
I have done everything you suggested. I'm setting up the B.O.T. to use the left side slider to control the spoilers . I want proportional control.

At the moment, the left slider only controls the left spoiler. The right spoiler is not moving at all.

This is my current setup:

Left spoiler - CH 6 - in Aux 1 slot on receiver
Right spoiler - CH 5 - in Gear slot on receiver


Any sugestions?
Thanks for your quick reply to my first post.
Your help is appreciated.
Old 04-05-2012, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4


ORIGINAL: scitech

Allan,

Thank you!!! I am now making great progress. I set up the B.O.T. as you suggested using ACRO. Took some time to get the throttle working. When I re-bound the radio - it worked.
I'm new to the 2.4 technology - but I'm a believer in reading manuals and I learn fast.
I have done everything you suggested. I'm setting up the B.O.T. to use the left side slider to control the spoilers . I want proportional control.

At the moment, the left slider only controls the left spoiler. The right spoiler is not moving at all.

This is my current setup:

Left spoiler - CH 6 - in Aux 1 slot on receiver
Right spoiler - CH 5 - in Gear slot on receiver


Any sugestions?
Thanks for your quick reply to my first post.
Your help is appreciated.
Generally, with JR, in a mix such as Dual Ailerons, Dual Elevators, Dual Flaps, etc., the Right Half of the control surface is connected to the Master channel and the Left Half is connected to the Slave channel. When you Mate the Slave channel to the Master channel, it changes the names of the channels. For example, if Gear channel is Mated to the Aileron channel, the Aileron channel is renamed to Right Aileron and the Gear channel is renamed to Left Aileron. If you connected them in reverse, these channels would be incorrectly named in the transmitter.


Old 04-05-2012, 07:30 PM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,

I have been doing some more expermenting. In the Wing Type I mated the FLAP with GEAR and now both spoilers are working together.
I was assuming that the left slide switch would be the only switch to operate the spoiler. However, I notice that the FLAP switch operates the Spoilers and I can find tune the movement with the slider switch. Is this how it is suppose to function, or is it possible to disable the FLAP switch completly and only operate the spoilers with the slider switch?

The right spoiler is also not quite in sync with the left. How should I adjust that? Manually, or with the radio. You mentioned using AUX 3 to do this but I'm a little confused with this.

I will keep expermenting and see what I come up with.

Again, thanks for your help.



Old 04-06-2012, 12:29 AM
  #6  
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4



We are not exactly on the same page. The way I originally described setting up the channels was (using the receiver nomenclature):



THRO ESC



AILE Open or rudder



ELEV elevator



RUDD rudder or open



GEAR open



RFLA(AUX1) right spoiler



LFLA(AUX2) left spoiler



There is no reason that you can’t use the gear channel for the left spoiler. If you want to do that, then inhibit the GEAR output in the DeviceSEL. Ignore my comment of using AUX3 for the left spoiler. AUX3 requires an eight-channel receiver.



I’ve taken some pictures of the menus where the GEAR channel rather than AUX2 is used for the left flap/spoiler function. Note in the DeviceSEL menu, the GEAR OUT is INH.



The flap device is set to FLAP LV which is the left slider. The FLAP OUT is set to ACT.



The FLAP TRIM has been left ON. The flap trim lever is the spring loaded switch located just left of center on the top front row of switches. This trim will move both flaps/spoilers in the same direction. For spoiler use, it not of much value and I should have set it to OFF.



In the WING TYPE menu, the GEAR channel has been mated to the FLAP channel. The third picture is the 9303 Monitor menu with the left spoiler on the LFLA (a.k.a. GEAR)channel.



I don’t know how you got both the FLAP SW and FLAP LV to control the spoilers. If you set up your DeviceSEL and Wing Type as I have, only the FLAP LV will control the spoilers.



The way to coordinate the spoilers is to use the function list’s Sub Trim and TRVL ADJ. menus. The way I did it on my RES motor-glider was to use the Sub Trim menu to get the spoiler servo arms positioned nearly the same. Then I used the TRVL ADJ to set the closed and fully open positions for each spoiler channel to be identical. Unless the linkage geometry for one spoiler is really different from the other, not much adjustment will be needed.



One thing I didn’t cover is a throttle kill switch. The 9303 lacks one but it is easy to set up using the function list’s THRO CURV menu and if you disable the throttle trim. Without the throttle trim disabled it is possible for the motor to turn on if the trim is pushed forward. To disable the throttle trim, in the system list’s TRIM STEP menu set the THRO to 0%. Then in the THRO CURV menu just below where it reads "[THRO CURV] >" there will be either Pos.0 or Pos.1. The default is Pos.0. The graph to the right show the curve for Pos.0. Leave it as a straight line. Next highlight and select the Pos.1 curve. On that graph change all the points to 0.0%. If you haven’t inhibited throttle trim, you will notice that Point-L can be changed by the throttle trim lever. Last, go to the SW SELECT and select one to be the activation switch for the Pos.1 curve. You can use the GEAR SW as it was inhibited from controlling the GEAR channel in the DeviceSEL menu.



Allan

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Old 04-06-2012, 08:23 AM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,

PIctures are worth a 1000 words! Thanks for the picts of the menus. One of the hats I wear at my school is that of a computer coordinator. Staff always understand my directions with clarity when I include screen shots.
Thanks for the How To on setting up a kill switch. I was wondering how I was going to do that. It works great. Everything is working now, except for mixing the elevator with the spoilers.

Can you give me some direction for that? When the BOT was originally set up in the glider mode, the ELEV mix was Spoiler Opening 85 degrees and Elevator 15 degrees.

Do I use Mix 1?

Also, would it be wise to set up dual rates on the Rudder(which is on the aileron) and the Elevator.

Thanks again for all of your help. Your are AWESOME.

Dennis
Old 04-06-2012, 03:47 PM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,

I spent more time on the B.O.T. today. I now have everything figured out and configured as you suggested. I was able to set the Spoiler to Elevator Curve Mix on Mix 1. I used the suggested setting from the John Adams setup.
Point-0 - 0
Point-1 - +15
Point-2 - INH
Point-3 - +36
Point-4 - INH
Point-5 - INH
Point-6 - +44

Let me know if this is a good starting point.
I also figured out how to set the Dual Rates.
You mentioned in your earlier post to setup a Preset Fail-Safe. According to the manual this is only possible with the AR9000 receiver.
I'm using the AR7000 receiver so am I just limited to SmartSafe?

Thanks for all of the help.
Hope to be flying the B.O.T. by Sunday.

Dennis
Old 04-07-2012, 09:02 AM
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4



I’m glad you got the curve mix working. I was in the process of writing a very long reply to your previous post. I would say based on my RES, I would recommend halving all the values. A mix with too high of the rates is worst than having no mix at all. I’ve found from bitter experience that you can get into a lot of trouble if the mix rates are too high. Depending on the mix, sometimes it takes only a couple of percentage points to compensate.



The preset failsafe is an undocumented feature of all but the earliest AR7000 ‘s. I don’t know why it has never been put in the instructions. Just try it and see if it works. I have it on both of my AR7000 receivers.



Allan

Reflecting on some of my experiences with mixes into the elevator, I would recommend you cut the mix down by much more than half. The elevator is very sensitive. I would initially set the highest rate to no more than 5 and set Point-3 to 2. Inhibit the rest of the points. With too little mix compensation, it will be quit natural to manually make the correction with the elevator stick. Make a test flight with the spoilers fully open. Land and adjust the top rate and change Point-3 for half that rate. When you find the proper top rate, then you can adjust the intermediate points.

Old 04-07-2012, 07:21 PM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,

Thanks again for the advice. I will make your suggested changes in the mix. Hope to fly tomorrow. I have 6.5 acres and when I planted my 3.5 acre hay field I created two grass runways.
One runs N-S - 400 ft x 40 ft. and one runs E-W - 250 ft. x 40 ft. Perfect for gliders. So nice just to step outside and fly.

I will let you know how the flight went.

Again, thank you so much for your great advice. It is appreciated.

Take Care.

Dennis
Old 04-23-2012, 11:04 AM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,
Well I finally got the time to fly the B.O.T. It flies fantastic - talk about a floater and easy to find thermals. The spoilers work great on killing lift.
However, I found out one problem -apparently, not enough down-thrust was set for the motor, because when I go to high throttle, I have to hold a lot of down elevator or the B.O.T. will do a loop. It wants to do this on about 3/4 throttle or higher. I figure I have two choices. - remount the motor with more down-thrust of mix in down elevator with high throttle.

At this point it would be easier just to mix in some down elevator when at High Throttle.
I saw some directions on how to mix the Throttle with the elevator when at low throttle. Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to mix down elevator when only at High Throttle?
I have an JR 9303 radio.
Thanks in advance,
Dennis
Old 07-01-2012, 07:05 AM
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scitech
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

I could still use some help in mixing down elevator at hight throttle settings.  It would be nice to climb to high altitude with out having to hold full down elevator when climbing. 
 Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to mix down elevator when only at High Throttle?  I'm looking at from about 60% throttle and up.
I have an JR 9303 radio.
 
 
Thanks in advance,
Dennis

Old 07-01-2012, 11:10 AM
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4



Dennis,



If you are using the ACRO configuration, use the program mix offset to set the point where the mix kicks in. Take a normal program mix, say mix #6, and mix THRO -> ELEV. Move your throttle stick to the position where you want for the mix to kick in. Select the Offset in the mix menu. Look at the legend in the up left corner of the screen. As you increase the offset from zero to some positive value, the small bar to right of the legend will switch from its bottom position to its upper position. The offset number where this occurs marks the position you have place your throttle stick. On my transmitter, for what I approximate to be 60% throttle, the offset is +50.



If you want the mix full time, enter a mix ratio for the upper value of the Pos0 rates. Leave the lower value zero. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, enter a very small value initially. The value will have to be larger than if the offset were zero. Use the Pos1 rates if you want to use a select condition for the mix.



Allan

Old 07-02-2012, 08:49 PM
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Default RE: Bird of Time on JR9303 2.4

Allan,

Yes, it is ACRO configuration.  I will give it a try.  Thanks for your help.

Dennis

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