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AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

Old 07-02-2009, 02:10 PM
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BuschBarber
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Default AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

I have a JR XP9303 with an early Spektrum Module and an early AR9000 Rx. I also have a the Flight Log device. At last weekend's FF, I was preparing my H9 P37-150 for it's first flight of the year. It is equipped with one of my AR9000's and one Satellite Rx. While checking out all the controls, I noticed that the system went into Failsafe, with all channels Holding and Throttle going to Idle. This lasted for a few seconds and then control returned. I was able to duplicate the situation by moving Elevators, Ailerons, Flaps, and Rudder, all together, for 15-20 seconds. I repeated this numerous times with the Flight Logger plugged in. There were no Fades on any of the antennas, but I had 4 Frame Losses and 6 Holds.

How can you have Frame Losses and Holds if No antenna looses a signal?

I am using 2cell Flight Power Evo LiPos and a 5v Regulator plugged in between the Switch Harness and the Rx, because my 791 Retract Servos will only work at 5v.

I hooked up an H9 Volt/Current Meter, between the Battery and the Switch Harness. The Voltage remained at 7.96v and the Current Draw was only 2amps when I activated all controls.

With the H9 meter installed, I was going into Failsafe every few seconds. This was much more frequent than when I did not have the meter installed.

I copied my Model Memory over to my backup XP9303 with the JR Synthesizer 72Mhz Module and substituted a JR R2000 Synthesized Rx on 72Mhz. I did a good range check and had a flawless flight.

The AR9000 and Satellite Rx does not have the latest firmware.

I have an Eflite Beaver and an Electrifly Seawinde, both with AR6100 Rx's and I have never had a glitch using the same XP9303 with the same Spektrum Module
Old 07-02-2009, 03:19 PM
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jmohn
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

Send the AR9000 back to Horizon for an update. I wouldn't fly it without the quick connect feature. If you have that many servos and then add a retract servo you will cause a drain the reboot the receiver. You can loose control for 2 to 13 seconds.


Jeff
Old 07-02-2009, 03:55 PM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

I will certainly send it in, however, I am curious as to why I am not seeing a voltage drop prior to the Hold. If there is no Voltage Drop then what is causing the Hold?

I also do not understand why the Flight Loger is not showing any Fades, yet, I am seeing Frame Losses and Holds. If a Frame Loss is a Fade on all antennas, simultaneously, how can you have a Frame Loss with no Fade?

If I am to have confidence in the data stored on the Flight Logger, I need to know the significance of the data being stored and how it was created.

Is a Hold and a Failsafe Event one in the same?
Old 07-08-2009, 06:21 PM
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tkallev
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

The logger may not be giving you complete data since the receiver is experiencing brownouts ... you are only getting the data from the most recent complete power-on cycle, not counting the prior brown-outs.

According to the Horizon product page:

Antenna Fades – represent the loss of a bit of information on that specific antenna. Typically it’s normal to have as many as 50–100 antenna fades on any one of the antennas during a flight. If any single antenna experiences over 500 fades in a single flight, the antenna should be repositioned in the aircraft to optimize the RF link.

Frame Loss – represents simultaneous antenna fades on all attached receivers. If the RF link is performing optimally, frame losses per flight should be less than 20.

Hold – a hold occurs when 45 contiguous (one right after the other) frame losses occur. This takes about one second. If a hold occurs during flight, it’s important to re-evaluate the system, moving the antennas to different locations and/or checking to be sure the transmitter and receivers are working correctly.

I suggest you contact a product rep at Horizon about the way the flight log works and definitely send in your AR9000 for the firmware upgrade.

You could also put one of their capacitors (Spektrum Voltage Protector) into your receiver that help negate the brown-out situation and see if you see the fades that are driving the frame losses and holds before you upgrade the receiver.

Here's a link to the capacitor: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SPM1600

tk
Old 07-08-2009, 08:30 PM
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mimhoff
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

[quote][You could also put one of their capacitors (Spektrum Voltage Protector) into your receiver that help negate the brown-out situation and see if you see the fades that are driving the frame losses and holds before you upgrade the receiver.
/quote]

I was going to get one of those capaciters (sounds like a logical solution0 - I spoke to both my LHS and Horizon and was told that it would have little or no benefit on an RC aircraft and that it is intendesd for small 1/12 RC carpet race cars and I should not waste my money. Spektrum also lists the "Spektrum Voltage Protector" as a surface accessory.

http://www.spektrumrc.com/DSM/Produc...cessories.aspx

listed at bottom of the screen.

Just my $.02
Old 07-08-2009, 09:06 PM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

Not to butt in, but there have been reports similar to yours, I think, where the regulator in question was a "switching" regulator, and it's cycle time was slow enough that the 9000 interprets it as a brownout. Not saying that's your situation, but I would try a different regulator for testing just to eliminate that possibility.

I avoided the regulator issues with SPektrum and JR 2.4 stuff by going to straight 2S A123 cells.
Old 07-09-2009, 02:02 AM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

The H9 Current/Volt meter was connected between the Battery and the Switch Harness. It did not register any Voltage Drops when I was experiencing the Holds. If I was experiencing a Brown Out, wouldn't I have seen a Voltage Drop? The voltage was steady at 7.96v. I was only drawing 2a. I was moving both sticks and the Flap Switch.
Old 07-09-2009, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

Rich,

I have a Flight Log and there are times when it indicates the number of frame loses and holds are more than the fades. I can recall reading at least two explanations and I'm not sure any are correct. If you are experiencing brownouts, the Flight Log will normally reset itself and indicate no holds. Bob's explanation is possibly correct. Your regulator maybe generating enough noise on the power lines that it is causing the receiver to go into hold. I doubt the H9 meter is fast enough to record noise on the power lines. You need an oscilloscope to see it.

Allan
Old 07-15-2009, 12:04 PM
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JethroTull
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

You are only looking at the voltage before the regulator. I bet if you connect your meter between the regulator and the reciever it will tell a whole different story.
Old 07-16-2009, 01:04 PM
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Airbike
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

from my experience.......

Go and check how loose the module is in the transmitter, I had a lock out situation with my h9 35% Extra 260 and sent module and Rx to Horizon. Of course everything checked out fine and they replaced the Rx.

When I was setting up some servos on the bench using the new Rx, I saw that the Rx lost the signal. I reset all switches, but it happened several times. I was able to recreate the signal loss by wriggling the module in the Tx. The power light stayed on in the module, but it dropped the signal to the antenna (the Rx went into hold).

This failure mode is not consistant when the radio is in use, I went for 2 years without any issues until the lock out incident.

Either add some tape to the sides of the module or do something to take out any slop in the way the module fits. Or buy the dedicated 2.4 9303 (thats what I did for my own piece of mind).

Just something to be aware of.

good luck.
Old 07-16-2009, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: AR9000 - No Fades - Many Holds

I had read that some Tx's were experiencing problems with the fit of the Spektrum Module. Mine seems to be solid. I also use this Tx and Module with electric aircraft like the Electrifly SeaWinde, Eflite Extra 260 and the Eflite Beaver. Each are using the AR6100 and I have never had a problem.

Someone mentioned that since I use 2cell LiPos, as Rx packs, that the MPI 5v regulator might be misbehaving and causing a problem. When I switched to the JR 72Mhz R2000 Rx, I did not change anything else in the aircraft and the radio has been rock solid. Either there is no problem with voltage regulator and batteries or it was only affecting the AR9000 and is not affecting the R2000.

When I was checking for Brown Outs, I put the meter between the LiPos and the Switch Harness. I did not try it between the Voltage Regulator and the Rx.

I plan to send both of my AR9000 Rx's and Satellite Rx's back to be checked and the firmware updated.

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