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US version of new 9X - reason?

Old 07-09-2003, 02:39 AM
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Conty
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

There is nothing new - new JR-9X is on the market (see older messages) except US.

1Q: What is reason to have US version of this radio?

Just few ideas:
-Sure difference is RF modul for FREQ band specific for each country
-Probably most of US users use mode2 vs mode1
-US people have extra needs (what are they?) that rest of the world does not have
-to create segment of market that separates US users from rest of the world

Sure, if US customers need 200 model memory and rest of the world only 10 model memory this could be the case??

2Q: What is difference between JR-X8103 (US version) and JR-X3810 (Rest of the world version).

Why not to have only one version?
-Much simpler for MFG to build it and to shuffle products among the regions.
-If you travel then sure service without excuse for exaple as "we do not service it, because we sell different product".

MFG could build few prototypes then to send them to different regions and after collecting feedback to build only one version of the radio.

Conclusion:
Advantage of one product may work better for flying folks.
Old 07-09-2003, 07:36 AM
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Peter Khor
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

My opinions anyways ... the market segregation would help with limiting gray market imports, ie, only 8103's would be sold and serviced in the US. This is both (I assume) to protect US resellers and keep the product at a certain price point.

fwiw it should be exactly the same radio, the RF portion is removable to suite each country's freq requirement.

Back to the 9X "specially" programmed firmware for US market, I *really* *really* hope Horizon/JR won't drop the ball on this one - the reason being (from official articles and postings), iirc Horizon's general view is that US R/C flyers don't want to deal with complex computer radios and rather "enjoy" the flying aspects of R/C only - that will probably leave US 9X users short changed with a dumbed-down radio that way below its potential, only because Horizon/JR feels that US flyers don't like complex radios. I have only ONE ANSWER for Horizon/JR - PLEASE LOOK AT FUTABA 9C sales!

A good starting point (imo) if there is a US only firmware version:

* The JR/Graupner version with switch assignment might be something that should be considered, even if it means Horizon has to swallow its pride a bit and take back what they say in their "switch assignment" article - there are some flyers that do like this feature. fwiw keep the standard switch labeling for the rest of us that's used to JR switch layout already

* More model memory! 20 isn't enough.

* This would be a fantastic chance to incorporate some of the nicer programmable mixers featured in the 9Z/Stylus/Multiplex that's even lacking in the 10X

* More timers please! Or at least a timer that can be switched from throttle, etc - esp. for sailplane/glider/F5 flyers; 8103 is lagging behind imo.
Old 07-09-2003, 12:02 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

The US market is different than other markets, and this means that we make requests from JR to add functions to systems before bringing the systems in to the country. Stay tuned for more information!
Old 07-10-2003, 09:43 AM
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Peter Khor
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Danny, thanks much - and I'm definately staying tuned for more info. fwiw, please take my comments as constructive input from a JR end-user

Back to Horizon/JR thinking, here's the Horizon article that leads me to belive that any changes to the 9X for the US market would be to dumb it down:

http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/articles/1144.asp

"American pilots prefer to fly more, fiddle less.

This is an observation I've made after watching, listening and comparing American RCers to many other flyers around the world. It's a generalization, to be sure. And it simply isn't true of all U.S. flyers - there are fellows who are highly technical and computer literate - who would be happy writing their own code for their radio. It's what makes them happy.

But for every one of those fellows, I could introduce you to twenty who'd prefer to have radios do more with less hassle. They're into the fun of flying and don't want to make a career of learning how to use their radio. The time they have is valuable and their idea of fun isn't getting to know their radio. They want to socialize-"strut their stuff" with their plane- and if they take their creation home in one piece, they're grateful. They're in it for the fun and challenge.

Fact is, the JR system is easier - you don't have to take time to assign switches. It's more of what people in the U.S. really want. "

I wonder at times if Eric Meyers' (JR Marketing Manager) actually flys R/C (and what type) or just talk to people who do.

fwiw, I don't think there is any firmware difference btwn the current 8103 and 10x, US and "international" version?
Old 07-10-2003, 12:18 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Eric does fly, and is also a very good pilot! We are listening to our customers, and I will definitely pass your feedback on. Thank you for your input!
Old 07-10-2003, 02:33 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

FWIW, the two features of the Futaba 9C that I find most attractive are the three position switch(es) and the ability to assign switches IF YOU WISH (i.e., single rate switch). I would surely like to see those on a JR 9 channel, so I could scratch the urge to switch. Otherwise, I am very happy with my 8103.
Old 07-10-2003, 03:46 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Thanks for passing on the feedback to Eric, I'd suppose that for marketing purposes the article had to favor JR I guess I'm generalizing here, but - knowing that the majority of R/C flyers with the wallet to spend might be in the older/retirement group, I would understand Eric's pov a little better. But you have to remember that the younger R/C flyers (in general again), are much more comfortable with computer radio interface (the minority 'highly technical and computer literate' segment the article refers to), and this is the NEXT market segment that should be seriously considered. (OT - sort of like how much Model Aviation places emphasis on Control Line, only because I'd guess the powers that be are interested in it, rather than reflecting the reality of the hobby).

Just more food for thot, look around locally and on ezone, there are many parkflyer/e-flyers that are using Eclipse/9C/8103 (one class) or 662/5X/6XAS even for simple 3 channel electrics. Overkill? fwiw I regularly fly a Slow Stick on either a 8103 or 652, and make use of the programmable mixes (even multipoint mix) for such functions as thrustline compensation and camera trigger on a 4 channel RX using channel 5 switch. The overall "cheapness" of parkflyer/electrics also mean that accumulating 20 or more flyable models is a reality, and more model memory is nice to have (datasafe is nice, but I don't care for the s/w - that's for another thread I guess )
Old 07-15-2003, 02:27 PM
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Default High-end radios need to be flexible.

I don't see why high-end radios don't have the "option" to reassign switches.

It is difficult for me buy the idea that a user who is willing to spend big money for a sophisticated and powerfull radio like the 10X (or 9X for the matter) doesn't want to "fiddle" with it. Just to learn how to exploit its full potential you HAVE TO fiddle with it.

In order to comply with both "philosophies", JR programers can set up an advanced menu so you can, IF YOU LIKE, access all the reassigning options. Similiar to the menu structure of some software programs; "advanced menus" or "basic menus"... the user makes the choice.

I'm no expert in radio marketing, but JR could be losing the "Fiddler" segment of the market to other brands that offer the option. I personally know of two people that have swtched (no pun intended) to Futaba for that reason only.


Regards to all.
Old 07-20-2003, 11:44 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Just when will more information surface, I do not see how waiting with info in hand helps sales.

Fewer secrets would be nice for people to plan purchases, but that is business speaking and not "consumer-first" thinking.
Old 07-29-2003, 03:22 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

All the feedback is certainly welcome, and we will use that feedback to help with decisions on our products. At this time I don't have any information to share on the new 9 channel system.
Old 07-29-2003, 07:15 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

I sure hope that switch assignments is on the top of the new feature desired....that is to assign any switch to pretty much any functions (except basis function AIL/ELEV/RUD/THR), sure would make programming a bit more difficult but more versatile.

Please don't tell me to go Futaba... I have a lot of money into the JR Line.....I'm was of course talking about the JR10X replacement whenever that will be...
Old 07-29-2003, 07:51 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

I can tell you that Switch assignability(is that a word) was the one and only reason I went with the 9C over the 8103 for my main radio. If the 9X has it you can bet I will buy it in a heartbeat.
Old 07-29-2003, 07:56 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

I would never tell you to fly Futaba... Thank you all for the feedback!
Old 07-29-2003, 10:37 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

I know that you wouldn't ........and I'm not ready to trade my 10X for the other brands....


Originally posted by dsnyder
I would never tell you to fly Futaba... Thank you all for the feedback!
Old 08-02-2003, 03:17 AM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Hi,
I am one that would say NO to switch assignability. I don't know where this idea came from or why, but I see no reason to change the normal locations for the rate switches. I don't want to be handed a Tx. that has that ability that way I know out of habit I won't flip the wrong switch. 3d rate switches can already be done on these radios. I was handed one of those transmitters that had that 'musical switches' stuff one time and it was so screwed up I couldn't fly the airplane for fixating on where the dang switches had been moved to. I won't do that again, and when people ask me, I ask them to program the switches back where they are supposed to be and i can fly it. I like the idea of leaving them where they are...they are there for a reason and once you get used to a position why would you want to change that? Whenever I buy a new radio I sit down with it and just watch TV while moving the sticks and reaching for switches to get used to where they are. When I have to flip one quick I'm assured that the right switch is where it's supposed to be.
Old 08-02-2003, 12:29 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Actually thing about it this way....let say somebody with another brand radio want to buy the JR 2005 XXX (replacement of the 10X)

And the deciding factor is for the fact that he can custom program the switches to act like his current X Brand radio....examples;

I for one fly with Flight Mode and used only the Elevator dual rate for that....it leave my two other dual rate switches on my radio unused have no way to used them either unless I go w/out the flight mode.....and I sure would want to used them for a special mix that I'm trying but don't won't full time.

Also these two rotary switch that we have on the 10X that I never used since they cannot move to the mix were I need them, the same with the side lever I sure would like to used the left one for mixture on my OS 140 RX B carb, but it can only be used with channel 6 which is my left aileron.....

All I'm saying is being able to program all the switches to be used in different way is a GOOD thing, as far as other peoples flying with my planes...well that doesn't happen at all....unless they body box and I have a JR 622 for that.

Of course this is only my IMHO.....JR 10X user!
Old 08-02-2003, 01:56 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

I think this forum is very beneficial to both JR and it's users as it facilitates communication between the two.

Personally I am a 8103 user, love the feel of it over Futaba. Even if the 9C is slightly easier to program I'd still stick with JR. And I think JR's philosophy of keeping switches at a fixed location is a great philosophy. I've never had the intention of moving a switch around.

However, this does not guarantee I won't in the future. While fixing switches is a good idea, it is alway good to give the user the option to do otherwise. JR might be saving a couple of crashes by not allowing switch assigning, but it's also loosing market share. I don't think anyone whose crashes their planes because of switch confusion will blame Futaba for providing this feature.

As a business in US, Horizon Hobby's goal should be profit maximizing, not minimizing crashes. It is clear from this forum that many choose the 9C over JR because of switch assignability. Perhapes JR could provide switch assignability, yet have default positions for the various functions? This way the lazy ones like me could just use the default position while the ones who wish to switch around can do so.

If I crashed a plane because of switch confusion, I'd probably blame it on myself. (not speaking for my girlfriend)
Old 08-02-2003, 08:06 PM
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Default 9X

Originally posted by Dansy
I know that you wouldn't ........and I'm not ready to trade my 10X for the other brands....
Dansy: Are you certain you won't switch???

Dave
Old 08-03-2003, 09:02 AM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Dave,

I'm actually thinking about getting a second transmitter...
Old 08-03-2003, 11:18 AM
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Default JR 9X

Dansy: One with a tachometer and assignable switches???

Dave -
Old 08-04-2003, 09:28 AM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

Dave,

I did not say I'm changing my 10X...just add another transmitters to my collection......
Old 08-06-2003, 04:36 AM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

here is my thread on mypcm 9x:9x]
Old 08-23-2003, 05:33 AM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

At great risk of starting a contraversy on this topic - why not have uploadable sw versions and let the market decide what it wants. JR is apparently able and willing to maintain numerous versions of the software/firmware - everyone can have their cake and eat it too.

Just my 2 cents.
Old 08-23-2003, 04:05 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

MX-22 (9X from Graupner) has a serial port in the back of the TX, in addition to trainer port for backups AND firmware updates. There are potential problems with endusers being able to change firmware though, as thye are quite likely to mess up their radio due to one thing or another, and create a servicing problem for Horizon/JR. (the un-tech-savvy-US-R/C-market)
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Old 08-23-2003, 04:11 PM
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Default US version of new 9X - reason?

And something I'd doubt we'd ever see on a 9X radio for the US market - switch assignment. At anyrate, it shows that all of it is do-able, bottom line is if Horizon/JR decides to do it or not. (nice thing though is at least there's the option (albeit $$) to order a MX-22 from EU and use 72MHz RF module.)
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