Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Due to the recent number of premature bearing replacements required we have decided to prohibit the use of Aeroshell 500. The amount of contamination in the bearing and chamber has been directly and consistently linked to the use of this oil in KingTech engines and as far as we know, KingTech engines only.

If you must use turbine oil in order to be compatible with the rest of your fleet, please use BP 2380 or Mobile Jet II, basically anything but Aeroshell 500, otherwise, please look into KingTech blend which is non carcinogenic and proven to have the best results in lubrication and reliability of our engines.

http://www.kingtechturbines.com/stor...products_id=54

Regards,
Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Berry I just sent you a e-mail for some more Kingtech oil. George

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi Barry,


I'm not trying to start an argument, or debate... but I'm very interested in the new 55 (or I guess it's a 60 now)... and especially the 35 when it's released.

Because of that... I'm curious to know why KingTech is having issues with the 2 top rated oils? (DTE and 500) What is the exact mode of failure? (gum, over heat, stuck pre-load, etc)

Thanks for any info.

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi Tony, I would say the number one failure with Aeroshell 500 would be the carbon built up in and around the bearings, as you could clearly see in the pictures from Dirk's posts.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11492501/tm.htm In fact, he said that the bearing on the right was after he soaked it in the solvent tank and the crusty carbon is very difficult or impossible to clean off and has also coated the balls of the bearing.

Perhaps Dirk could chime in to tell us more...

Regards,
Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Barry, do you know if the problems with Aeroshell 500 are restricted to it being used with diesel or are the problems showing up when mixed with kero also?

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Thanks for the link. I'll go check it out.

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi Gary, the coking from Aeroshell 500 has been consistent regardless of types of fuel being mixed with, whether Diesel, Jet A or Kero, or mixed blend.

Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi Tony,

I am an Ex USMC, CH-53 Crew Chief and have been a mechanic since I could pick up a tool. I take mental notes while repairing our turbines and I noticed some were very clean and others had a very bad carbon build up throughout the internals and especially in the rear bearings. We then added the section to our service request form, what oils & fuels our customers are using for our own data compilation. After numerous repairs in the past two years, I found the common denominator of excessive carbon buildup was Aeroshell 500 oil. I shared my observations with Barry and the Factory. We now have seen enough problems to make the announcement to prohibit the use of Aeroshell 500 with our KingTech Turbines.


I have seen in as little as 30 minutes of run time with Aeroshell 500, a coking problem already starting on a recent crashed K-100. The bearing picture I posted in our clinic section was actually after I soaked it in my parts cleaning tank and tried to save the bearing. The balls and races feel like sand is permanently embedded and just gets worse over time. I have seen the coking build up so bad that the bearing would no longer turn. I will have to literally scrape the carbon out of the combustion chambers from turbines ran with Aeroshell 500.


Most other oils leave a brown tarnishing, and as you can see from the pictures, the KingTech oil leaves almost no tarnishing and still looks new. Fortunately for our service center and our customers, I am not just a parts changer; I actually question findings with the Barry and the Factory. We are always working together to produce the best and most reliable turbine on the market and keep them running healthy. I understand other manufactures endorse Aeroshell 500, but their turbines are not built like ours and we know what works best for us. The bottom line is, if you want a Healthy KingTech Turbine, DON'T USE AEROSHELL 500!!

Hope this answers your question,


Dirk Flejter

KingTech Service

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi Dirk,


Thanks for the info, and the pics.

From what I'm seeing... that's kind of typical when syth oils hit their burning point. (hard carbon, or a hard tar type substance) And let's face it... these oils were never meant to be burnt. They recirculate in a big engine.

So... either the other oils burn easier (ie cleaner) or... not at all. (curious)

Regardless... I guess Kingtech engine have a little more heat in the bearing tubes, over other engines. Not necessarily a bad thing, if you have an oil that works, and the pre-load system has enough movement to cover the growth.



I just got away from 500 myself, because of the toxic issues... but I want to be able to run one oil.


Since I have your attention... and not to take it of topic... but was the DTE doing the same thing??? Or was it just leaving flats in the balls?

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Tony,

If you operated our engines, you will see that the actual run temp, is on the cooler side of the temp range. To say it’s the heat of our turbine that is causing Aeroshell to build up? Why do the other oil brands perform better in the same Turbine, bearings and chambers? I think the other oils might burn/vaporize better than others. Once the fuel/oil passes through the bearings, it’s done its job and does not need to stick around and build up carbon.


My observations pertaining to other oils are as follows;

1. Aeroshell 500, leaves a heavy carbon buildup in & on the bearings, inside & outside the combustion chamber, on the shaft tunnel, in the NGV and the inside of the housing.

2. Mobile jet II, leaves a very dark black tarnishing with some light - medium coking buildup in the bearings, chamber & NGV.

3. DTE, light leaves a Tan to medium brownish tarnishing with some coking build up in the bearings & chamber.

4. KingTech oil leaves a very light to none existent tarnishing and almost no coking in the chamber.



I don't have enough data to speak of other oil products, as these are the most commonly reported and used.



As for DTE leaving flats on the balls, I have not personally witnessed that.



Thanks for the input and participation,



Dirk Flejter

KingTech Service

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Dirk how about Aeroshell 560? I will probably running that when my JetII stash runs out.

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Sure... but if there is less bypass air, into the bearing tube... then the internal temps, within the tube can be higher than another manufacture. Obviously, it's a moot point, since we (as hobbyists) don't monitor bypass temps.

But, this could be a reason why my old AMT's love 500... and the KingTech doesn't. And I have my suspicions that my little wren44 didn't like it either.



I know Berry was saying, the guys down in OZ were having issues with the DTE, but it wasn't a big problem in the USA. I figure I would just pick your brain a little. ;)


Sorry if I was getting a little deep on this. I'm a Physicist, who snapped... left my comfy day job in a lab... and opened a custom motorcycle shop. (and have turned machinist, engineer) So... I don't like "Black box" answers, of... "It doesn't work, don't use it". (LOL)

But... as I said... I stopped using 500 anyway.

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Kris, I actually spoke to Shell Tech Adviser at Houston. He said Aeroshell 500 being their first gen turbine oil really is an old formula and not at all surprised with our result, but your 560 being their gen III should be way better. So we'd be happy to give you a full report when the time comes.

Tony, here are some data I gathered on the flash points of different oils:

Aeroshell 500 at 280C
Mobil Jet II at 265C
KingTech Oil 209C

We formulate our oil to be burnt off easily and cleanly at a lower temperatures in comparison to most of turbine oils which has a minimum required flash point of 260C. Since our EGT is generally lower in its class, and like Dirk mentioned, that during engine running the oil is constantly being injected, ie. replaced and then burnt off, I respectfully think, it just may or may not be the contrary to your assumption that why KingTech is incompatible to Aeroshell 500.

Regards,
Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

I think you are right. The engine is running cooler,and it's not burning off the 500 properly, and it leaves the carbon.

Thanks for the insight. ;)

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hello Kingtech, Is higher spec Shell Turbine oil ok. I have been using Shell 560 or Shell 555 for a while now on a different brand Turbine without an issue. Regards John

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hello, can we get the kingtech blend in australia. If not what is the best to use ?
mobil jet2 ?

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Barry,
Can you email me a data sheet on your oil? The 2 gallons arrived this week (thanks!) and I'm going to switch over. Want to ensure that my other brand turbine (BF) will be Ok using it so I can continue with a single fuel supply.

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi John, we don't have much data on 560 nor 555, but as mentioned before Shell tech adviser did mention that 560 is a much more advanced turbine oil than the 500. If you choose to run 560 or 555, will back you up 100%.

Regards,
Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi bj, Ken Mollison and I are talking about getting KingTech blend available in Australia, please get in touch with him.

Regards,
Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Sean, like we discussed over the phone, the main difference between our oil and most turbine oil is the lower flash point.

Regards,
Barry

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hello Barry,
Thanks for the reply. I look forward to running my new K 140.

Regards


John

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Are you guys allowing the use of Aeroshell 560 ?

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Yes 560 is the newest generation oil and is ok per Dirk and Barry so far. I will be switching to 560 soon also since my mobil jet II stash is almost gone.

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Here are some physical characteristics for your reference:

Kinematic Viscosity
40C cSt 32
100C cSt 5.7
Viscosity Index 101
Density @15C kg/l 0.868
Flash Point C 210
Maximum Pour Point, C -30

RE: Aeroshell 500 Prohibited
 

Hi Barry, I don't kinow if you are receiving my e-mails.
I need the internal burner for my k80f.
Thanks a lot


Sergio.