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Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Old 01-08-2011, 08:49 AM
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Toysareforkids
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Default Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane



Does the plans for a BalsaUSA Phaeton or Phaeton II have full size drawings, so that I could build a plane from the plans only?

If So does anyone have a set of plans they would like to sell or trade for?
Or a kit (started or not) ora plane, even if it needs work, or a light crashed one,they would like to trade something for it?
I would like the 1st Phaeton, but wouldtake the Phaeton II also.
I have other kits, planes,or engines to trade. New or used

Pat

Old 01-08-2011, 05:11 PM
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Nergall
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

It's not a particularly expensive kit. Why don't you just buy one from BalsaUSA?
Old 01-08-2011, 05:59 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Hey Pat,

Yes, the original Phaeton biplane did come with a (one-sheet) plans set and two pages of instructions. I built the original .40 size Phaeton in 1979...kit cost was $ 18.00 - $ 22.00

Plans were folded not rolled and I still have mine but they're in terrible condition. The plane flew well but had some issues. After flying my friends totally stock plane, I decided to make a few changes to improve perfomance and appearence.

1. Thinned down the airfoil..it was a quite thick cross section....o.k. for slow "Sunday-flier" type flying..but I wanted more speed. ( I was only seventeen )

2. I added ailerons to the top wing for a more axial roll.

3. Changed the rudder hinge-line to a verticle line....kit has a swept back hinge-line.

4. Bolt-on wings and dural landing gear....kit used rubber bands for wings and gear.

5. Added (I) struts - own design copied from the Pitts Special...kit did not include any wing struts.

6. Added wire wingtip skids...common practice for first time tail dragger flyers.

Engine was a K&B .40 w/Perry carb .... muffler - Semco..... prop - Topflight 10x5

All in all a good flyer and very fast modified as detailed above. My friend had an O.S. .40 fsr ..Macs muffler and his plane flew well but slower and not the vertical mine had.

The neat thing was you could customize the Phaeton in many ways to enhance appearence and not adversely affect it.
A few years later I bought a second one and made even more changes but haven't finished it yet[8D]
I still have my first one (built - 1979) hanging in garage and the second one just needs to be covered with Monokote or Stits fabric. Neither is for sale tho....sorry.

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Old 01-08-2011, 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Here are some shots of my plans. Not in good shape. Thirty years old.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

rcphotog,
I had 2 Phaetons, The 1st I built back in '80 I learned how to fly with it., I sold it and built other planes I wanted back then, and then I built my 2nd one back around '88 and then I sold it around '92. Flew the heck out that one. I also made a few changes. I made struts after the wing tips hit , and the top wing fluddered a couple of times. I didn't add top ailerons. I had a OS 45 fsr on my 2nd one, 1st one had a OS 40.I also bolted on the landing gear.
I wish I never sold it.

What did they change in the Phaeton II other then the wire cabines and wire struts?

Do you want to sellyour plans & instructions? Do they show the bulkheads on the plans? I could figure them out if not, they are just simple ones.

I don't believe I don't have mine yet! I don't throw anything away....ask my wife! LOL

Nergall,
I am out of work right now, and I can buy/trade forplans and completely build one with the Balsa & plywood I have now. Or I can trade for a kit with stuff I have. I want another Phaeton, to fly!

Pat
Old 01-08-2011, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Balsa USA sells the Phaeton II plans and instructions for $15 plus shipping.
https://www.balsausa.com/store/categ...d_category=121
Old 01-08-2011, 09:16 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

ORIGINAL: Toysareforkids

What did they change in the Phaeton II other then the wire cabines and wire struts?

Pat
The original...wingspan - 48 in. length... - 38 1/4 ... wing cord (both top and bottom) was 8 1/4 in. ...CG was 3 3/8 in. aft of leading edge top wing center.

New Phaeton II...wingspan - 52 in. length... - 41 3/8 ... wing cord ? ...CG is 4 1/8" aft of leading edge top wing center....well, the plane is quite a bit different.

Mine weighed about 6 lbs. and flew "heavy"...(heavy construction method) full sheeted fus. and heavy balsa through out. I don't know if they changed the airfoil. I think the new one may need a little more than a .40......perhaps a .50 two stroke or .63 four stroke.

It's a bigger plane all around. Also, I would turn the outer "N" struts around so that the middle strut connects the leading edge of the bottom wing to the trailing edge of the top wing. It will be stronger and look better (more realistic). In any case, I would not fly it without outer struts.

I never did like the way the rudder hinge line sweeps aft. It flew better aerobatics with my change (hinge line perpendicular to the thrust line)

On my second one I rounded off the foreward cabane deck and the turttle deck and moved the cockpit back 1-1/2" and added a scale tail wheel like a Scott or Haig, cowling/wheel- pants from Sig's Chipmunk to add more character.

Plans do not show bulkhead dimentions only placement location. Wings are constant cords, so all ribs are same. Should be easy to scratch build this model...but, you might consider just buying a set of plans from Balsa U.S.A. for the Phaeton II.

I won't let go of my plans , but I will photo and measure any areas for you if you like. I'm pretty compitent with photoshop and can add measurements to the photos.

Good luck,
Ken.
Old 01-09-2011, 03:05 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

CanDo,
I do know thatI can buy the Phaeton II plans from Balsa USA for $15.00 plus $9.95 shipping.
But if I'm going to pay that I would rather have the orignal Phaeton plans. I like the orignal much better, and that is what I'm really looking for.

Or a plane that needs some work. Ilike to build so is no problem for meto strip a plane and rebuild/repair it, I've done it many times.

Or a unbuilt orignal Phaeton kit. I haveNIB Airtronic's Jetfire 40kit I could swap, which I hear is hard to find.

Orget aPhaeton II kit from someone thats not going to buildor finishtheirs.

Plus I'd rather fly a 40's size plane. and Ihavea few40-45's just sitting on my shielf. Iprefer flying smaller.10 to .40 size planes

Does Kingo's or anywhere like that make copies that size or maybe into 4 full size sections, not reduced?
If someone wouldbe willingto dothat, and not give up their plans.

Pat
Old 01-09-2011, 06:07 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane


ORIGINAL: Nergall

It's not a particularly expensive kit. Why don't you just buy one from BalsaUSA?

They haven't been made for a couple of decades. The later versions, while fine airplanes in their own right, are not the same as the original Phaeton Biplane.


Ed Cregger
Old 01-09-2011, 06:29 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

1 for sale on RC U as we speak. $75.00
Old 01-09-2011, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Yes Thanks, but that is a Phaeton II. I really want origional Phaeton if I can get one, or plans.

Pat
Old 01-09-2011, 02:46 PM
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Nergall
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

And we wonder why so few kits are on the market now...
Old 01-09-2011, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

What do you mean ?
Old 01-09-2011, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

I've just seen too many people on here asking for a "copy" of plans that are readily available from the copyright holder for a reasonable fee.

Why not support the industry and pay BalsaUSA the $25 instead of Kinko's? The sequel doesn't sound that much different.

Old 01-09-2011, 05:55 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

I Would! Buy the plans from Balsa USA IF they sold a PHAETON! But they don't, they have a Phaeton II. It is not the same plane!

I Do support the hobby industry, a month ago I had 32 New In The Box kits that I had bought!(Ihave sold some)I have from 1/2A to gaint scale kits right now! But I do not have a Phaeton Biplane and I want one to fly! I have a Helicoter, Ihave 11 Cars and trucks, and 1/10 dragser, and a boat and a sailboat. I have 72 new and used motors, OS, HP, Webra, Enya, McCoy, Fox, Cox, Wen-Max. 2cycles from .010 to a 77VR for my BV F86 kit, I have 4cycles from .48 to 160 twin, I have 2 Wankels, I have 16 radio's 76 servo's 16 spare RX'sI didn't count my batteries, 8 planes ready to fly, 2 which are electric and I'm finishing my stand-off scaleNieuport 28 and only 3 are ARF's!(Yes, I just counted everything a littleover a month or soago.)and peg board walls filled with building supply's and covering! The closest hobby store is 45 miles away.

Fewerkits on the market isn't from me, unless I bought to many over the years. My wife thinks so!

I fly small stuff in my back yard (7 acres, plus 50 acre fieldacross the road from me.) I live in the mountains, and drive 20 to 50 milesto a fewflying fields to fly the bigger and faster stuff.

Youshould find out about someone before, you say something, people don't look good with their footin their mouth.

Besides, If I want to buy someone elses used plans or plane, what is the difference. Isn't that what the "Buy & Sell" tab at the top for?

I'm off the soap box now.I'm not here to give people crap about anything. Just to have fun in one of my hobbies. My other oneis our Hot Rods.

Pat
Old 01-10-2011, 05:49 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Sounds great! I wish my collection were as large. (And, my backyard as big!)

You're very right, I don't know you. I was only trying to make a generalized comment.

Now, if you answer the next question correctly, then very clearly I was referring to others around this forum besides yourself:

When you first decided you wanted a PHAETON (not II), did you shoot an e-mail off to BalsaUSA to see if they could sell you the old plans?

If so, then I sincerely apologize for any inference to you - though the statement still stands for the forum in general.

If not, then might I humbly suggest you try that now?
Old 01-10-2011, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

I admit, I did not ask them if they still sell the plans for the Phaeton. I asumed thedidn't! (And we all know what that wordmeans!)I apologize for that.
I guess I need to do that today.

I still would like to find a kit or a plane that someone would be willing to trade for.

Pat



Old 01-11-2011, 12:34 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

If they don't, (and, yeah, they probably won't), then you might try AMA. They had some archived Midwest plans that allowed me to finish a long abandoned kit a few years back, which Midwest itself could not help me with.
Old 01-11-2011, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

I e-mailed Balsa USA yesterday and no answer yet.
I had alreay checked the AMA site and they don't have it. But Thanks for the help.

Pat
Old 01-14-2011, 04:42 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Well, I never got a answer back from Balsa USA. How ever, I did find someone that has a used original Phaeton missing the lower wing. But the shipping was going to be around $60-65 dependingwho shipped it from PA to TN. But he is going to have the plans copied for me instead, and sellme justthem, so it looks like I'll have my Phaeton to fly in my backyard.

Mean while I bought a Herr's 30"Pitts kit to fly in the backyard. The guy I bought it from on Ebay ( I e-mailed him and asked all about the kit first) said it was missing a couple fuse bulkheads, and that the laser cutout was there and I could make them from that!............... It came yesterday and I laid out all the loose parts in the box (about 85% was loose) and it comes down to be missing 1 rib and almost the Complete fuse! (it has 3 turtle deck formers & cowl & tail feathers)and missing most of the cutout sheets, to know what they looked like! andmost of the sheeting is missing! I can't tell if some were ply or balsa! and it's missing the instruction booklet!

So if any of you have a instruction booklet on one they could scan, or take a picture of the pages.Please e-mail me or post it on here, andI can copy it.

Pat
Old 01-17-2011, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Here is the Phaeton instructions on pdf file. That's how someone sent them to me. They were missing from a kit I bought. I built a Phaeton back in the mid 80's I guess. I loved that plane. It flew great with a K&B 40 and floated in for landings.
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:13 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

  McLoedAviation, Thank you. I will print them and use them. I now have got the plans in hand. I need to finish covering my Nieuport 28, and then onto building the Phaeton.

 Thanks to you all that responed to this!

  Pat
Old 01-19-2011, 08:11 AM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Getting the plans for the original Phaeton Biplane kit wouldn't do you any good. You need pics of the actual wing ribs, which are not provided on the plans. Of course, one could extrapolate from what is shown and probably succeed at making a reasonable facsimile of the Phaeton Biplane.

It was a rather unique flying model. Not difficult or tricky to fly in any way. Just remember to immediately lower the nose if the engine quits running. Yes, a little steeper than you would with a monoplane.


Ed Cregger
Old 01-20-2011, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

It does have the picture of the actualupper and lower wing ribs, it just doesn't have the shorten center ribs for the top wing. They are just cut short. See pic's of the print in above post.

I have had 2 of these origional Phaetons, and am familial with the way they fly.

Pat
Old 01-22-2011, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: Balsa USA Phaeton Biplane

Hey Pat,

I thought I'd dig up my 30 year old Phaeton .40 (first generation cir. 1979) and put it together for a photo shoot ...I started this one around spring of '82 and a few weeks building and "bashing" produced this. It's been in deep deep storage ever since.

It's held together with tape just for photos and nothing is carved in stone so I'll probably make some changes when I get going again. The verticle stab and rudder is just a blank canvas waiting for inspiration. I'm displaying a cowl from an old Sig .60 size Chipmunk that I'm restoring. I think it looks good, just needs a trim at the back to fit better. The main gear is not permately attached so I can play around with it as well. I copied the Aeromaster's turtle deck and also moved the cockpit back 1 1/2 inches. I'll be using Pitts style "I" struts and flying wire as well. I'll try to keep it under 6.5 lbs (maybe) and it should fly like a Starduster maybe. (I'm more interested in it having character than great performance.)

So, I'm looking forward to your build. It'll be a fun project for you and for whom ever is curious to follow along.
Ken.
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