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12' Telemaster- gonna need help

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12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Old 10-05-2011, 02:55 PM
  #51  
JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help


ORIGINAL: soarrich

As a scratch-builder I was wondering what thickness of wood do they use for the ribs, and what's the rib spacing?
1/8 sheeting and 6 1/2 spacing.
Old 10-09-2011, 05:01 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Good luck on your build. Sounds like you are off to a good start in getting the kit a Month sooner than I did!
Just a point to mention:
I found many threads that stated lost birds due to wing strut failure. I took the brass ends that are in the kit and tossed them away. I made full length aluminum struts by laminating 1/8" aluminum to 1/4" spruce with a top of balsa. sanded to airfoil shape.. Very strong. I also created a primary strut and a thinner smaller secondary strut (same construction smaller materials) and moved the strutmounting point from the center of the wing rib to just in front of the main and secondary wing spars. 1/4" ply laying flat along the wing rib holds 1/4" blind nuts for strut mounts. very strong. I use 1/4" aluminum screws in place of any nylon screws too!

Another point to ponder... I sheeted wings and tail to the main spar top and bottom... really add to strength. As you can see by photos I felt I needed it!

Keep those telemasters in the air!
Rich
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Old 10-09-2011, 05:08 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Could u post a closeup pic of the strut mod? Much appreciated.

pete
Old 10-09-2011, 06:08 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

These are a couple views of the strut mounts on the wing and Fuse.
On the maiden flight of this plane the engine cut out and the plane glided nicely down to about 10 feet off the water when it dropped.. the wings, struts and landing gear took all the stress and the only thing that I found damaged at all was the mounting eyebolts that hold the floats on, (I bent it back out and it was fine). We had a cub do about the same thing and it broke both wings off.
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:16 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Another suggestion would be on the control links.
I used all #6 Ball links and Giant scale control horns bolted thru control surfaces! No movement unless I want it to move.. Flutterless!
Rich
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Old 10-09-2011, 06:33 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Oh... I found a couple of pics of the construction of the struts!
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Old 10-09-2011, 07:05 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Hi Rich,
Tanx for posting those pics. Do u have a build tread? I need to absorb as much as I can as I will be building soon.
Any and all tips are welcomed.

pete
Old 10-09-2011, 11:34 PM
  #58  
JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

ORIGINAL: rich6170

Good luck on your build. Sounds like you are off to a good start in getting the kit a Month sooner than I did!
Just a point to mention:
I found many threads that stated lost birds due to wing strut failure. I took the brass ends that are in the kit and tossed them away. I made full length aluminum struts by laminating 1/8'' aluminum to 1/4'' spruce with a top of balsa. sanded to airfoil shape.. Very strong. I also created a primary strut and a thinner smaller secondary strut (same construction smaller materials) and moved the strutmounting point from the center of the wing rib to just in front of the main and secondary wing spars. 1/4'' ply laying flat along the wing rib holds 1/4'' blind nuts for strut mounts. very strong. I use 1/4'' aluminum screws in place of any nylon screws too!

Another point to ponder... I sheeted wings and tail to the main spar top and bottom... really add to strength. As you can see by photos I felt I needed it!

Keep those telemasters in the air!
Rich

Rich, THANK YOU for posting that.

I was thinking of doing something similar for the strut, but I have also e-mailed Coyote Hobby to see about airfoil shaped metal tubing in an appropriate size.


I had a conversation with one of the guys at aerocraftrc regarding one piece of ply that was missing. They make the kits, and I ordered directly from them.

Anyway, we also spoke about the strut. Long and short, they have had engineers look at the design, who felt it was way stronger than any load the plane could generate, but he thought people sometimes have the strut attached to the fuse w/o the wing on, which tends to bend/stress them. That was why they changed to brass.

He also said the single spar was designed to let the wing flex a bit under extreme load, and reduce lift. Anyway, since extra weight won't be a big problem, he felt modifying it or using metal tube would be fine.


I am a bit concerned about fatigue over time, from looking at photos of failures, so I'll for sure run metal from one end to the other (either strip stock through shaped balsa, or airfoil shaped tube with hardwood plugs). I think I'll also use a bit of angle aluminum on the inside attach points, and use that to connect to a light ply former.


Anyway, I'd love to see some detail photos of your bomb bay doors...

Old 10-10-2011, 11:59 AM
  #59  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Hmmmmm wing flex..... Not sure why you would need a lot of flex.. Wouldn't that be hard on those glued up joints in the wings and add a twisting motion to the strut ends?..the struts maintain wing incedence constant for the length of the wing..... mabee that is why this is the point of failure for so many. I dont really know. All I know is that somewhere there is a pic of my plane (I wish I had it) crashing flat down into a lake and water splashing more than 10' over it with no damage... They work for me!
Anyway....
The bomb box... Removable and only held in by a single wing bolt. I take it out for flights that I dont want to drop crap (duckies) on peeps on the beach.. see pics below of the build...
It takes a while to get the length of the control rods right but doors open and close easily. I didn't have a retract servo so you have to keep power to it after it is loaded. It works real well tho.
Thanks for lookin at my build pics, I do have step by step photos on this one but I dont have a build thread.

Rich
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:46 PM
  #60  
JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Thanks Rich.

Could I also trouble you for the details on the floats, mounts, water rudder?

Did you add flaps or additional vert stab for use w/floats?

Thanks again,

Jeff

PS What width of 1/8 alum did you use in your struts, and was it ordinary hardware variety or did you get t-6 7075 or?
Old 10-11-2011, 04:51 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Hi;
The aluminum I used is standard hardware aluminum available at any Home Depot or Lowe's. For the main struts I used 1/8" x 3/4" x 12' and cut it to size. for the secondary struts (rear struts) I used 1/8" x1/2" x 12'. As you can see by the prevous pics they are not exactly airfoil shape but are rounded similar to airfoil. The spruce prevents them from bowing under stress and the balsa on top enables you to shape them. They are laminated together using Gorilla Glue. (Pollyurethane base construction glue).

Ok Floats.... Hmmmm .. The floats are sorta patterned from Great Planes 40 size floats. I took the basic outline and enlarged them to the appropriate size for the Telemaster.
for the tops I used a 1/4" flat plywood sheet and laminated a 1/2" strengthining piece to the bottom (the piece in the pics with the holes).
The bottoms are put on last and are light ply. The sides are 5/32" hard balsa with the grain vertical to the float.
They are a bit heavy at 12 pounds but the would support a small cessna.
The support cage I built from landing gear wire and again it is simmilar to the wire supports on the 40 size floats only using 1/4" and 3/16" wire. Each joint is wire wrapped, soldered and finnished with JB Weld and sanded to shape.
The cross supports are same construction of the main wing struts.
The water Rudders are a story in themselves and I will have to take some pics of the new ones. I will post them soon. The rudder you see in the pics was not a flip up and was distroyed as soon as I moved the plane off the table... Another oh $#!+ experiance.
I will see ya when I get some new pics. Pobly today sometime.
Rich
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:27 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Ok... That didnt take long!

Here are the pics of the new water rudders. They are made of PVC kitchen drawer seperators laminated together I found this at The Container Store in Columbus. Cut to shape and the hardware is made similar to any available float hardware only muuuuucccchhhhh larger.
As I converted the Telemaster to Tricycle landing gear the front wheel is operated from a servo on the bottom of the fuse. I ran cables to this servo for operation of the Water Rudders. My recommendation would be to modify that to mount servos inside or on the floats themselves and use a Y connector off the rudder connection on the reciever. I have done that on several other sets of floats and it works well. Yes servos will work when wet!
All for now.. Good building and above all have fun!!
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:58 AM
  #63  
JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Rich,

Thanks again, and very nice work.

I have never had a float plane, and my tele will be a tail dragger. I was thinking I would like to build in provisions on the fuse to eventually mount floats.

Could you provide some detail on how you did that, and measurements as to where you put mount points? Actually, the dimensions of the floats, too, if I could trouble you? I'd be especially interested in where the step on the floats are located, and where they are in relation to the fuse.


Out of curiosity, what made you choose nitro power?

Jeff
Old 10-11-2011, 11:56 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

The mounts for the floats are places centered over the cg as much as possible. I had to move the mounts back as to be the same place as the landing gears new position and to clear the bomb box opening. It is not that critical where they are as long as the step is 1/2" to 1" behind the CG.
The lenght of the floats are determined by the length of the plane from mounting plate on the front of the engine to the rudder hinge x .75.. in this case I came up with approxamately 67"width then came out to about 7 1/2" at the widest point. I figured about 55% of the float is behind the step so I have a 36" tail and the bow is at about 28". The rest of the length is the carved balsa block for the bow tips and the stern is 1/2" ply block to hold rudders. Comes out to about 67" overall.
The most important measurement of any is the measurement of 1/2" to 1" from the CG on the plane to the Step on the floats. The step is behind the cg sothat you get proper rotation up to plane when taking off.
This is the most realistic plane to watch take off from water. I attend a lot of full scale float events and it takes off just like a full scale Cub.
Why do I run glo engines.... I dunno.... I guess I had that engine laying around and I didnt feel that the Saito 180 that I was given for christmas for that plane was enough.
I have been in this hobby for almost 5 years now and out of the 54 planes I have they are all glow and only 2 are not 2 stroke... Yes I get picked on about that... I did break down and ordered a 50cc gas for a lanier cap 232 I am building.. I guess I will try it!
I got the Supertiger 3450 for $100.00 at a swap meet. Figgered I would use it.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:19 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

I have a 12' kit from the 70's that I have yet to build. The struts are wood dowels, and there are metal tubes that you attach to the ends of the dowl and flatten the other ends of the metal tubes to attach to wing and fuse.
Old 10-11-2011, 10:42 PM
  #66  
JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Thanks Rich.

I guess the appropriate thing for me to do would be put a hard point behind the bay door. I would think that, plus the area where landing gear attach and the hard point for the struts would let me cleanly make float gear later.

I wonder if there are float kits in an appropriate size... Never having done a float plane, I don't think I would attempt a scratch build.

I wasn't trying to pick on you RE the nitro engine, it just seemed to me it would get expensive to feed one in that size. Having one on hand though makes using it make sense.

Catspaw,

Build the kit. I'm having great fun with this. I think I would do something like Rich did with the struts, though.
Old 10-12-2011, 01:57 AM
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Check this out, lots of float plans. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Giant-1-3-Scale-Piper-L-4-Grasshopper-Plans-Templates-Instruction-/360400166874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e986 1fda

Old 10-12-2011, 05:33 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

This maybe a better route to the floats http://www.ebay.com/sch/m_h_r/m.html...&_trksid=p4340
Old 10-12-2011, 06:05 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Hay
Box Car;
There is a site called Seaplane Supply that sells foam core floats. I have a set of theirs on a biplane I Kitbashed from the plans for the Lt-40. The company is located in Lake Orion Michigan and make floats up to 60". They probably would work for the 12' Telemaster but as the formula came closer to the 67" range I decided to try my hand at scratch building them. As I only had a week to the first Float fly of the year i didnt have time to wait for them. It only took 4 days to build them.
The E_Bay site 1/3 scale floats also would probably work. They give several options on mounting hardware that can be used and methods of mounting. either option would work well.
BTW cant place China... I am origonally from Standish but hang around Gaylord MI a lot. They have a GREAT Float fly every year at the county park.. Check it out sometime.

CATSPAW;
Man... build that kit!!! Wut ya waitin fer?? Just dont use the crush tubes and dowel rods for wing supports. Even the guys at Hobby Lobby tried to upgrade those. The build discussion I read last year included comments from Aerocraft Where they tried several methods of mounting the struts and they found that the brass ends worked well... Since then there have been posts of 3 Telemasters going down for failure of the bond of the brass ends to the wood struts. After reading those and talking to Aerocraft I decided to go aluminum all the way. You can do as they say on the plan and put one strut on each side but at least upgrade to aluminun all the way.
Old 10-12-2011, 06:47 AM
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

Rich, Standish was our gas and lunch stop when we would go up to Grand Lake fishing. China is about 18 miles south of Port Huron just off the St. Clair River, all farms. I fly off my pond so I have to keep my float planes at 1/5 scale. But I did order the plans for that 1/3 scale L4 off E-Bay. 144 inch WS, my kind of plane.
Ken
Old 10-12-2011, 08:40 AM
  #71  
JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

I'll figure something out. Got stiffeners on flap and aile yesterday, plus have ribs in other half of wing. This am wind was lower than predicted so I might not get much more done.
Old 10-12-2011, 11:19 AM
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

I'm not building it cause I don't have an engine for it yet, and money's tight right now. I have some full size aircraft stuff I hope to sell that'll get me some cash, but I'm not sure I'll be able to build the giant tele this winter.

Anyways, got a couple of other project closer to flying including a senior TM.
Old 10-12-2011, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

ken
Oh... I guess I should have known where China was as I worked at Colony Marine doing new boat prep on sea Ray boats. But that was in the early 80's. It was just down the shore a few miles. Didn't work there long.
Sounds like you got a nice place to fly. I have a 300' landing strip in the back yard lit with solar lights. Fun to fly at nite but as you I am restricted to the 40 to 60 size airplanes due to the tree lines.

jeffin
Dont forget to post us some pics so we can keep up on your progress!

CATSPAW
I understand every bit of that!!!
Old 10-12-2011, 04:29 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help

See if you can't find the Chuck Cunningham articles on building floats, they appeared in RCM magazine. I bet there's a few copies of it floating around the net.
You make your own out of foam, using a bandsaw, add ply stiffeners, cover it, add mounts and rudders.
The formula was the length of the floats need to be 75% of the length from the prop thrust washer to the rudder hinge line. Other dimensions were percentages off of that, IIRC.
Old 10-13-2011, 06:23 PM
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JeffinTD
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Default RE: 12' Telemaster- gonna need help


ORIGINAL: rich6170

jeffin
Dont forget to post us some pics so we can keep up on your progress!
There won't be a whole lot to post for a bit, working 10 hour swing shifts, and since I'll be building the other wing half (which would be repetitive).

Anyway, here's how the flap looks with stiffeners added. Flexing it, I think it should be plenty strong. I don't plan on using the flaps except at low speed anyway.



Here is a shot of the wing, with the flap and aileron sitting in place. I think I will wait on hinges, servo mounts, and shaping leading edge until I have the other side built.



Other than that, I'm thinking of lighting the plane internally (it will be transparent orange and opaque white) and have ordered some LED's. Probably do landing lights, too.

I'm also thinking I should do some floats for my Apprentice or Senior Kadet, as I wouldn't want to get my first float experience with this big telemaster...

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