JeffinTD

Thanks. I'll probably do the rudder as designed, then.

It will be a little bit before I can get back to building.

JeffinTD

Here's the fin partly built, and about to frame up the rudder.



I built the rudder as designed, except I extended the area of solid wood up a bit. That way I can mount the control horn higher, if I need to.



Mocking up the tail, the vertical stab and rudder seem small in comparison to the rest of the plane.



I can always build a larger rudder later, I suppose, if I felt the need.

G8er

yeah the rudder dose appear small, but in all of my .60 and .40 high wing planes that were not modeled after a realistic plane, they were prob about the same size if not smaller, relatively speaking... for some reason I do not expect you to be doing many hovering maneuvers where a lot control surface and throw will be needed, but I agree if some reason you decide more is needed, it will be somewhat easy(er) to modify on that giant scale, you might need to deforest an acre or two but do-able non the less :-p

JeffinTD

Mainly, I thought more vertical stab might be helpful or needed to keep things stable on floats, and maybe glider towing.

I'm using removeable pin hinges, so changing the rudder, anyway, wouldn't be too hard.

mikehamilton

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Jeff,

Glue 1/2" to 3/4" piece of wood on to Back of rudder, this will give more authority.

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JeffinTD

Have to splice, and laminate a bunch of wood for the fuse. Two layers of 3/4 x 1/4 make the main center longerons. Upper and lower longerons are from two layers of 1/4 x 1/2.



The bottom longeron gets laminated over the plan, due to the curve. The outer laminate extends to the end of the fuse, with the outer layer bevel cut to fit the tail piece.

JeffinTD

Mike, I think I might extend that rudder a bit. It would be easy to do, and the way the stock rudder is (1/8" strips) it would allow me to taper it better.

Strange thing about this kit is they give you one side view of the fuse. They have you make the bottom longeron for the left side first, not gluing it to the end piece, but with the laminate layers staggered and the inner layer cut to the proper angle to fit the end piece. Then you remove that, and build the other side (gluing the bottom longeron to the end block).



Note that the vertical risers are on the inside of the longerons, and there are fill pieces between the longerons on the forward risers only. Nothing meets anything at a square angle, so an angle gauge and the Micro Mark table saw get a workout.

Here is one side, completed. The risers are only glued to the longerons by their edges, and the cross braces get glued in there. I decided to add triangle stock where each riser meets a longeron, figuring it would add quite a bit of strength for very little weight.



Here's a view of the outside of that fuse side.

JeffinTD

For the other side, the directions says to place the risers on the plan and use squares to locate the longerons on top of them, basically building it upside down on the plan to make the opposite side.

Though the bottom longeron held it's curve somewhat from being laminated on the plan, I couldn't see how a person could hold it to the curve shown on the plan if it is 1/2 inch off of the board while you are trying to glue things together.

I figured it would be easier to glue up the longerons to the fill pieces first, so there will be something to hold things into alignment, then I'll lift it off the table and put in the risers. It was tough to fit the 1/2" sheeting behind the firewall, without being able to trace the opening onto the wood, but I figured it was worth it to have that to hold the bottom longeron in the correct curve.



I think I'll pin some scraps over the longerons when I pull it off the plan, to help make sure they stay in their exact position. The longerons are all cut, waiting for glue to cure before this side gets lifted off the plan.

In the mean time, I have glued some of the ply parts together in preparation of joining the sides.

The piece on the left is the main gear mount. The bottom pieces are the width of the fuse, and the upper piece fits between the longerons, with a 1/4 in gap in the bottom pieces to accommodate the wire gear.

The piece in the center is the attach point for the struts, and the rear brace wire for the main gear. Again, the upper piece fits between the longerons.

On the right of that is the firewall. The center longeron passes through to the front of the cheeks, and 1/2" sheeting goes ahead of that, with 1/4 sheeting inside of that. Really interlocks the firewall to the fuse.

On top are 1/4" pieces of ply that get laminated together to form 1/2" thick blocks into which the center section of the wing bolts. The other four 1/4" ply pieces are the cross braces of the cabin area. The rest of the cross braces are 1/4 x 1/2 balsa.



The 1/2" ply pieces that the center section gets bolted to go between the longerons, and a 1/8" ply piece gets glued to those, that is the full width of the fuse (under the longeron).

I am thinking of doing something similar to the ply piece that the struts attach to- making a ply piece the width of the fuse that goes over the bottom longeron. It seems to me with a high negative load (rough landing or whatever) it would be nice to have a little more strength to keep that piece from being ripped off the bottom of the fuse....

That's where I'm at for the night.

JeffinTD

Here is finishing up the other side of the fuse. Working upside down over the plan is a pain in the rear, setting the risers on the plan, and putting the longerons on top. I really wish they would have included two side views of the fuse in the plans.



After that set up, I installed the fill pieces behind where the firewall goes, and did some rough sanding.

Then I cut the cross braces. It comes with 4 pre-cut ply cross braces for around the cabin. F-6 and forward the cross braces are 1/4 x 1/2 balsa the same length.

Finally, it was time to pin the fuse sides to the plan and epoxy in the ply cross braces.






Next to go on, once this sets, will be the firewall. Then the cross braces from F6 forward.



Two things I've been thinking about.

The plans don't specify any right thrust, and the firewall has only down thrust built in. I was thinking about going 3 degrees right thrust? Need to figure that out, as it will determine where I drill the mount holes in order to keep the prop hub on the center line.

I also need to install a rear mount for float gear. I presume slightly behind the trailing edge? I was going to use 1/4" ply in two layers, as is done for the main gear mount...

malitape

My Feedback: (213)

JeffinTD,
Just want to let you know how much I enjoy this thread.
Like SDP, the explanations and photos, are superb. I will
make this thread a sticky on my computer for future
reference. I would like to built this bird down the road.

pete

JeffinTD

Thanks! I was wondering if anyone was reading this, and I appreciate your posting.

I got a little more done.

Epoxy and lots of clamps to install the firewall.





Once that was set, wood glue is used to install the cross pieces from F6 forward.



Using squares to make sure things stay straight and true.




Once that gets set up, more epoxy and it is time to put in the main gear mount, the mount plate for the struts, and the mounts for the wing. Though the plans don't call for it, I also used epoxy to put some triangle stock behind the firewall.




Next up will be the rest of the cross pieces.

I think I will do about 3 degrees of right thrust for the engine, by sanding some hardwood into a wedge shape. The other mod I need to do is a hard point for a rear float mount. I also plan to anchor the strut mount plate a bit more solidly to the longerons than what the plan shows. I'm thinking like a 1" wide strip of 1/4 ply on both sides, to bring the mount plate up to the level of the top of the longeron, then a 1 1/4 wide strip to go over the top of the longeron- kind of like they have you do for the wing mount plates.

I'm just concerned about what a high negative load would do, with the strut mount plate only glued to the bottom 1/4 inch of the longeron...

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

Hate to bust your nut, looking threw your pictures and discriptions, I built this airplane and pulled out my plans. I don't see how your airplane has vertical pieces on the inside of the fuse between the longerons. The truss work was supposed to support internally than externally like you have it. Compression loads will shear your glue joints. On my plans there are no dotted lines saying up the side rather a butt joint from stringer to stringer. Picture is at splice area but my plans show this idea thru out. Granted my plans are the 80's version of this plane but I don't think they would change it. 2 cents

JeffinTD

That's totally different than the plans and directions that came with my kit.

I also didn't care for only a glue joint on the edge of the risers securing the joint to the longerons, which is why I added triangle stock to each of them.

Anyway, thanks much for the reply and photo.

JeffinTD

Looking at your photo again, it looks like on yours the plans called for the cross bracing to be laid flat and morticed into the longeron?

On mine, it calls for the cross braces to be vertical, glued to the risers and the longerons. A 1"x1/8" cap gets put across the top of the longerons and would help tie the cross braces in.

JeffinTD

Here's a few more pics.

Working back on the fuse installing the cross pieces.



Once that set up, cross pieces farther back go in. The sides of the fuse were previously beveled for where they join together at the end.



Then 1/4" sheeting goes on between the strut mount plate and the landing gear plate, and from the landing gear mount plate forward to the firewall.



I cut a larger ply plate for the landing gear mount, than the hardwood piece the plans call for. Floats apparently tend to make the vert stab less effective, so I want to have room to mount a skeg if it turns out to be needed.



Then I built a hard point to serve as a rear float mount, in a similar style to the main gear hard point. The edge sticking out is to support the center and longeron caps. On the main gear, they have you glue a piece of balsa to the back of the mount plate, and I thought this would be easier and more secure.



The rear float mount point getting glued behind F-6. I will later add diagonal supports between the bottom and center longerons, as was done for the strut mount plate.



Here's the center 1/2" wide cap going on.



Work then got in the way. 1" wide caps will next go on over the longerons.

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

Sounds like the "cap strip" across the stringers and the vertical inner uprights is someone's attempt to "fix" problems that aren't there. My "T" master was the 2nd airplane I ever built for r/c. Rode hard,put away wet was an understatement. Never had fusalage problems, although my tail flew off my truck in 5 o'clock traffic. No one even hit it as I went to get it back. Some other threads suggest wing struts breaking and a few other minor issues but the fuse is solid. Go figure. A side note, unless the wing is upside down,it will fly. Mine had drooped wings building on an uneven table. The 2nd owner couldn't tell the difference either. Keep going, it's a fun airplane!!!

JeffinTD

The only problem I've ever heard of someone having with the fuse on one of these was someone who posted about the mount plate for the struts coming off. I would think either very high negative loads from a hard landing, or a poor glue joint would have to be involved.

Anyhoo... Here's a shot of the same area of the plans that came with mine.



Back to building.

Here's one of the longeron caps going in, between the strut mount plate and the rear float mount plate.



Putting the 1" wide strips on to the rear of that concerned me, as they would have to flex quite a bit to match the shape of the fuse. Took quite a few clamps and a couple pins, working from front to back, but otherwise it wasn't as difficult as I first thought.



Clampity clamp clamp clamp.... I also installed a 1/4 x 1/2 piece flat behind the cross piece below the trailing edge of the wing, to support the top cap pieces.




Once that all gets set up, it is time to unpin the fuse from the board.



Here, another piece of 1/4 x 1/2 goes on top of the previously mentioned piece, for the top caps to butt against.



As was done on the bottom of the fuse, the center piece goes on the top.



Lots of clamps again, and the top longeron caps go on.

JeffinTD

The next steps will be to epoxy some ply below the wing mount plates. The wing mount plates are glued between the longerons, and the pieces to go in are wider and fit under the longerons.

I will probably add a similar arrangement to the rear float mount plate, and to the strut mount plate.


For the struts, I've ordered a couple pieces of airfoiled aluminum jury struts from this aircraft part dealer http://carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html


I thought I'd get the firewall marked and drilled for the engine before the cheeks are installed.

I think I'm gonna go with 3 degrees right thrust, unless someone convinces me otherwise. Firewall to thrust plate of the engine is 6 3/4". It looks like about 3/8" offset at the firewall will keep the crank shaft on center, and a little over 1/8" of shim will give me that.

Would anyone care to check my geometry?

Tarasdad

Darn it, now I want to put my Apprentice on floats, even though there's nowhere to fly it from near me!

SIMCO

My Feedback: (33)

Probably never notice 3 degrees on the firewall. I used to take off with my thumb on the rudder in case of a crosswind blast, never used it. The plane was generally flying before you were ready. What WAS nice is the wing is NOT stalling side to side so the torque was not apparent. Granted I was using a G-45 as a powerplant. I had everything 0/0. All my twins threw the years have been 0/0 as well. As my instructor told me, "left stick is the rudder,use it".

malitape

My Feedback: (213)

Jeff, what are you using for a build surface and what are the dimensions?

JeffinTD

Thanks for the replies. I seem to have developed a flying style where I always use the rudder, so hopefully I'll do ok on it. My other 50cc size plane is a Reactor that is 0/0 and it flies great, but it seems to me torque on take off seems to effect high wing planes more?

The other large high wing I have is a 110" Rascal with Syssa 30. It's an ARF, and it looks to have about 6 degrees right thrust built into it.

Anyway, I think I'll give 3 degrees a try. In any event, I suspect if you roll onto the throttle smoothly, if it does tend to pull left it won't be so abrupt you can't compensate.



The building table is 4' x 8'. I got a pair of flat hollow core doors that had been hinged in the middle from a building material recycling store. They are joined below by being screwed to some extruded aluminum angle. The legs are collapsing saw horses from Harbor Freight (they are really nice, and don't wobble on uneven surfaces.

The top surface is a 1/2" sheet of pink foam insulation from Home Depot, put on with 3M spray glue. The foam comes with a plastic membrane on one side, which needs to go on the bottom to keep the spray glue from eating the foam.

It could be a bit more solid, but holds pins OK. Mainly I use it because it is cheap, and easy to rip off and replace.

JeffinTD

Well, I had jury duty today, but the case settled so I got a bit done.

I clamped up the tail, and got it aligned straight with the fuse to mark the longerons for where the tail mounts go.



Plans call for 2 hardwood pieces below the upper longeron, fill between the longerons with balsa, then screw the tail mount pieces down to that. I wasn't too keen on the two wood screws being the only thing holding the tail mount to the fuse, so I cut pieces of 1/2" ply to fit between the longerons. The pieces of 1/4 in hardwood they supplied to fit under the longerons weren't quite long enough to be flush with the sides, so I made ones out of 1/4 ply.



Here are those pieces getting epoxy.



This way the tail mounts will be retained by epoxy to ply... plus the screws.

While I was messing with epoxy, I added the pieces that go under the wing mount plates and extend under the longerons.



Once the epoxy set on the structure to retain the tail mount, I drilled pilot holes and installed the tail mounts... I put the tail back in place to confirm alignment before the epoxy set up, and marked it for screw holes.



Those chisel point drill bits sure make perfect holes.

The fill pieces cut for the sides of the fuse earlier get notched to fit around the ply pieces under the longerons. Once some sheeting goes in ahead and behind the tail mount, the side pieces get glued in.



I then decided to get the firewall drilled. I made a template from a scrap of ply, and drilled holes for the mount bolts, throttle linkage, fuel line, ignition trigger wire, and spark plug wire.



I thought I'd get the landing gear out of the way. Tail wheel is pretty simple. The suspension action of this type isn't the greatest, but I like the way they steer. I also decided to use a brass bushing.



I put in the clips to retain the main gear, and it's rearward support. Not pictured is a 1/8 wire that spans between them. It, and a J hook later get rubber banded together to provide suspension.



I also picked up engine mounting hardware, and some copper high temp sealer. Got the pitts muffler mounted, along with throttle arm extension.



Next up will be finishing the main gear and mounting the wheels, putting the wing on and getting it aligned to drill, blind nut, and tap the wing mount plates, and servo mounts for the throttle and for the tail.

Now that I can mount the tail to the fuse, I'll be able to see if mounting the rudder servo in the tail as I had planned can be done without the servo arm hitting the side of the fuse.

JeffinTD

Since I last posted, the lengths of jury strut I ordered arrived.



I'm sure they will be heavier than the built up wooden ones, but they will give me peace of mind. The gap in the middle for attachment point is 1/8". I think I'll use the 1/16 x 1/2 brass strips that came with the kit, and double them with 3/4 x 1/16 aluminum strip stock.

Here's the main gear, cleaned with sandpaper and alcohol, and wrapped in steel safety wire. Ready for flux and silver solder.



Engine fits onto the holes I drilled in the firewall. Sanded a piece of ply to a taper to give me 3 degrees.



You can see the firewall does have a couple degrees of down designed into it.



Landing gear now soldered together, and I put the wheels on so I could set the fuse in the driveway to square up the wing to mark locations for holes in the wing mount plates.



Set the wing on and got it square, and centers marked for the wing mount plate holes. Couldn't help but mock the thing up...



Then I pulled the engine and landing gear off to set the fuse on it's side. Currently working on gluing the cheek pieces on, plus the diagonal braces over the rear float mount plate...

CanDo

Now that's what I call progress. Mock-ups are motivators. Congratulations on a great build!