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J. Roberts Flight Control

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J. Roberts Flight Control

Old 05-01-2012, 12:47 PM
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Fandango2
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Default J. Roberts Flight Control

As an old time RCer and even a pre-historic controliner I am looking for something non-RC (forgive me!) but I know there others like me out there in cyber-space. What I am looking for is a copy of the instruction sheet for the J. Roberts Flight Control System. If you are a aero modeler steeped in CL history you will recognize the J. Roberts as the three line controline system to actuate a throttle on a CL scale aircraft. Once again...I apologize for the non-RC posting but thought I would give it a shot. Brodak Mfg has the current version of this system but seems to be reluctant to part with a copy of the instruction sheet. Keep em flyin. Gary
Old 05-01-2012, 01:20 PM
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tschuy
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

A google search yeilded some results: https://www.google.com/search?q=J.+R...ient=firefox-a

Cheers,
Old 05-01-2012, 01:23 PM
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Fandango2
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

duh...why didn't I think of that! Thanks, Gary
Old 05-01-2012, 03:42 PM
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Fandango2
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

I have checked the sites that Tim was kind enough to do a Google search for me. Interesting sites...mostly old magazine articles and so far have not scored a set of instructions. Still looking.
Old 05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

I have been using those handles for perhaps 50 years; not sure I ever looked at instructions. Certainly not in the last 49 years. I make up the two elevation lines to get elevator as close to neutral as possible, then make the throttle line so that it just begins to move the throttle bellcrank as you remove the slack. I believe you'll drive yourself crazy trying to achieve the line lengths shown in the instructions. (Heresay based on listening to other guys discuss it)
Chuck
Old 05-02-2012, 02:23 PM
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Fandango2
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

I appreciat your input. Since you have been uson one for many years I have a few questions you might be able to help me with...I have a new set of J Roberts three lines in a box and haven't strung them out yet but I assume that they are equal in length. The big question is there adjustment in the handle...I can't tell by just looking at it to fine tune nuetral in the handle or adjust the throttle pull.? When pulled out the middle line on the handle (throttle) is about 2" shorter than the control one and that maintains as the control lines move in and out with it. I am not sure what to do with the lever that sticks out the top. Can I assume that when pushing forward on the trigger the throttle set up allows it to go th low speed? I haven't picked up the bellcrank/throttle end set up yet. Guess if I uderstood the principle of how the sysem works it would help. I know it is to maintain line tension constant during throttle operation not like the independent third line I have used in the past.

Anything you can offer would be a help.
[img]webkit-fake-url://71D7EC6E-08EB-45F8-87CD-08AAAC2B6776/image.tiff[/img]Thanks, Gary
Old 05-02-2012, 06:32 PM
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R8893
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Gary
It is not possible to fine tune the neutral. Some adjustment is possible by using different size line connectors, but that is relatively crude. I don't have nay idea about the length of the pre-made lines.

The pull in all three lines is the same (it is a balanced system) The arms of the bellcrank will also move in and out as throttle input is given.

The trigger and lever work together and it is personal preference whether forward or back is low throttle. I set mine up so that the elevation lines pulled all the way out is high throttle. Theoretically I can fly my planes with only the elevation lines because the throttle will then alway be "high."

The system is like two kids on a teeter-totter. Classic bellcrank is the teeter-totter and line pull is the kids. Equal weight to kids (line pull) the system is static. Now if you were to put two kids (all kids weigh the same) half way between one seat and the fulcrum the teeter-totter would still be balanced. In the Robert's system the elevation bellcrank is located half way out the arm of the throttle bellcrank. Note that the elevation lines will move half the distance that the throttle line moves. This is why the handle lines move in and out to equalize the mechanics. You will have to look at the Robert's bellcrank for a long time to actually see this. It is a little more complex so that it won't induce an unwanted elevation movement when there is a throttle input.

Chuck
Old 05-02-2012, 09:12 PM
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Fandango2
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Thanks Chuck...I need to order the bell crank (from Brodak...probably) so I can see how it works and play with it a bit. I am sure it will all make sense then. It will be a while before I and ready to install it (Sig Master Builder kit Ryan STA...or a Sterling Stenson Reliant...either powered by a Saito 4 stroke...both kinda big but should be fun) so I have time to think it through so I have time to think.

Thanks again. Gary
Old 05-03-2012, 09:04 AM
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

There are a couple other options available to you, and you may already have the components in your R/C stuff. If you do not intend to compete, you could install an R/C receiver and servo in the model to work the throttle. Fly with your regular adjustable handle and use a neck strap for the transmitter. With a 2.4 GHz system you would not have to worry about interference. The advantage is that with the Robert's system you must have line tension for the throttle (or elevator) to work. Lines can go slack, especially when taxying.

In my competition C/L scale models I use my JR transmitter in direct servo control mode. One insulated line is for the signal and a bare line for the ground. I use a neck strap for the transmitter and can control throttle, retracts, flaps, and bomb drop with my left hand. I fly much more R/C than C/L and my left hand is doing what it does at the R/C field while my right hand works my 50 year old Darwin (adjustable) handle.

Then you could put operating flaps on your model too.
Chuck
Old 05-03-2012, 09:32 AM
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Fandango2
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Hi Chuck,

I am primarily an RC flyer as well...just trying to recapture some youth with the CL stuff...fat chance huh? Anyway I thought of using the CL/RC combo...specially since I have a couple of micro indoor RC planes (Champ and an Extra 300) and the Champ was a RTF that came with a funky little 2.4 transmitter that I never used (bound the Champ to my Spektrun Tx). Thought about using that with the cheap 2.4 Hobby King Chinese Orange Rx and a small battery pack then just clip the TX to my belt.

I used to compete CL stunt and scale here on the West Coast (Western Associated Modelers WAM) in the 60's and very early 70's...back then we did not hace carbs on our engines (at least I didn't) and we used the old Roto Valve exhaust restrictors...they were pretty crude but worked...kinda. Anyway I still would like to screw around with the Roberts...maybe scale back my idea to a Golberg Anniversary Cub kit that I have on the shelf, or something smaller, and leave the bigger planes for a more sophisticated system.

What part of The Country do you call home?

Gary[img]file://localhost/Users/garyrosa/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Originals/2010/Sep%2014,%202010/ATT0000011.jpg[/img]

Gary Rosa
Clovis, CA
[img]webkit-fake-url://CC4C40C0-9C6D-45AD-83C7-BD19E066D2D8/image.tiff[/img]
Old 05-03-2012, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Gary, sounds like you and I are about the same vintage, and not necessarily getting better with age. I flew combat and carrier as a kid and then again after college in the late 60's and early 70's. Focused on R/C after moving to a small town where I pretty much had to fly by myself. Back to the big city of Cincinnati, Ohio I got involved in C/L scale and one year set the goal of finally learning the whole stunt pattern. Got good enough to embarass myself in Intermediate. I have lots of fun with models; wish I was good enough to be able to do free flight.
Chuck
Old 05-03-2012, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Probably close to it....graduated HS in 62. After about 35 years away from CL I dusted off a little 'A' profile stunt ship with a Enya 15 I had hanging in the shop. First flight I was surprised me was that I could roll out of inside loops and fly inverted like I had just been doing it the day before I can still fly the WAM pattern (no triagles , hour glass or clover leaf) but absolutely all the percission is gone.. Guess it's like a bicycle...except for being percise. Built a Lil Satin (1/2A combat wing) put my old Golden Bee on it that has a TD piston, sleeve and glow head took it out on 27' 008 lines and it nearly spun me into the ground...but it was suere FUN!...I now fly it on 32' lines and put a slower prop on it...getting too damn old I guess.

It was good having this conversation with you and once again thanks for the input.  Gary
Old 05-03-2012, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Hey you guys, I used to fly U/C Stunt, and some Navy Carrier, back in the late fifties and early sixties. Out of modeling for 14 years then the RC bug hit me in 1976. I stumbled across my old Roberts control handle and lines not too long ago! Have long since sold or given the planes away, two Maulers, one from the kit that was made around 1962, and one from a 35 size of my own design, which was published in MAN or American Modeler. The Roberts system worked well for me.

Good to hear from some of the old U/Control crowd, have thought at times about building one myself, but think I'd get dizzy at my age now!

Clair Sieverling
Old 05-03-2012, 07:53 PM
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Fandango2
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Default RE: J. Roberts Flight Control

Getting back to CL after a 30+ year layoff I got a little dizzy as well then I remember...FOCUS ON THE PLANE. After a few flights you will get over it. If not several consective lazy eights until you settle down. The are several good CL Web sites...one of the suppliers specializing in CL is Brodak http://brodak.com/ RC is still my main focus but locally we have a small CL club and it is pretty much like old times...sorta...technology has krept in her too...electrics. Jump in...relative inexpensive compared to RC. Gary


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