Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > Kit Building
Reload this Page >

Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Notices
Kit Building If you're building a kit and have questions or want to discuss kit building post it here.

Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Old 05-20-2012, 05:07 AM
  #1  
combatman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Palmyra, NJ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

I enjoy building Guillow kits, since they have a great selection of planes, and I easily understand the plans and instructions. If any of you actually HAVE scaled up plans for one or several of their planes for glow or electric power, please let me know how it went. Things I'd like answered:

1. If you had to add extra reinforcements, please elaborate.
2. How do you determine proper thickness of balsa for ribs, formers, etc?
3. The kit you scaled up, and your power system.

If you feel compelled to tell me "it can't be done", or that I should just "buy a real kit that is already at the desired size", then just take two steps back from your computer, do an about face, and march rapidly until you hit a wall hard enough to knock yourself on your ass.
Old 05-20-2012, 05:20 AM
  #2  
ncsky
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Holly Springs, NC
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

don't know if this will help, but in the latest issue of electric flight there is an article about an indoor fly in (Ithink in IL). In the article there is one picture with a caption about the guy modifying a FFkit (believe it is Guillow) to electric. It had the name of the pilot so it might be a start.

Good Luck
Old 05-20-2012, 06:02 AM
  #3  
noveldoc
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Actually, the larger kit series can be flown with 1/2 gas and mini sized servos.  I believe I have seen some with 0.49 installations drawn on the plans.

If you want throttle control, Cox now sells kits for the 0.49.  G Marl 0.6 engine is also a great choice.

tom
Old 05-20-2012, 07:09 AM
  #4  
combatman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Palmyra, NJ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Guys,

I do realize that if built according to plans, Guillows planes can be outfitted with conventional RC equipment. However, please keep in mind that my question was regarding scaling up the Guillows plans (ie to double or triple their intended size).
Old 05-20-2012, 12:05 PM
  #5  
Jollidude
My Feedback: (39)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dartmouth, NS, CANADA
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

I enlarged the fuselage of the 28" Spitfire 200% and mated it to a 40 size Dynaflite Spitfire wing (56" span). I had the plans for the Dynaflite but didn't like the fuse so I decided to try the fuselage from the Guillows plans. The formers and stringers on the Guillows kit were both 1/16"balsa. I doubled them to 1/8". I used aircraft ply for the formers ahead of the cockpit and balsa for the rest. I also had to reduce the wing incidence (raised the rear of the wing), but I forget by how much though. I had to change the profile of the lower rear formers to match the new incidence. I sheeted the whole fuselage with 1/16 balsa and carved a cowl out of balsa blocks. It was powered with an OS 46 SF and later by a Saito 56 and flew well. The plane was very light, coming in at 5.5 lbs ready to fly. If you have any other questions, fire away. I think I have a few photos of it on my old computer.

Cheers!

Jollidude
Old 05-20-2012, 03:13 PM
  #6  
bigtim
My Feedback: (13)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: san francisco, CA
Posts: 4,177
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

I read a while back a guy had blown up a set of Me109 plans from a guillows kit and built a nice looking model it had a 80" wingspan or there abouts like jollidude pointed out there was some tweaking involved to the wing to get it to fly rite,you might try a search to see if it comes up

this thread has some video from foodstick on the 80" me109 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10938610
Old 05-20-2012, 08:04 PM
  #7  
foodstick
 
foodstick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ankeny, IA
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Yup, heres my video...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUo7xxbEEE4
Old 05-21-2012, 02:58 AM
  #8  
Toysareforkids
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deer Lodge, TN
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

I just had scaled up the DR1 to a 30" wing span, and made a much stronger, but still light plane at 11.2 oz. with 4 servos (2 in the wing for ailerons), battery. and esc. no covering or motor yet. Imoved the spars and used sheer webs and sheeted the leading edge for strength, but still light. All three wings are bolt on.

I have the stearman, P-40, P-39, Zero, and theThomas Morse Scout kitsto doyet


Check here, they do them all the time. and just about all of Guillows kits -> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=827861

Pat
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ge95458.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	110.5 KB
ID:	1764589   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pl32357.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	92.3 KB
ID:	1764590   Click image for larger version

Name:	Qv55060.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	79.9 KB
ID:	1764591   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki19899.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	102.4 KB
ID:	1764592  
Old 05-21-2012, 05:24 AM
  #9  
combatman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Palmyra, NJ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Wow, there are some really inspirational stories and examples here. Thank you for your contributions, and keep them coming!

I do have one question:

How do you know exactly where to reinforce areas, or what thickness balsa to use in these scale-ups? Is it arbitrary, based on experience, or formal education?
Old 05-21-2012, 09:18 AM
  #10  
Gray Beard
My Feedback: (-1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hemderson, NV
Posts: 14,385
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

I met a fellow last year in the Wattflyer forum who both enlarged them and also built them stock then made them into RC electrics. He didn't enlarge them that big, {the 80 incher} but kept them in a range like a 40 size. I was impressed with him doing them stock and installing RC gear, I have a heck of a time getting them to fly with rubber band power. I still enjoy building them but have never tried to RC one. The fellow on WF stated he liked the challenge of flying the little ones and they are a hand full. I'm just getting into electric power now and may try one in the future.
Old 05-21-2012, 09:55 AM
  #11  
carrellh
Senior Member
 
carrellh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Garland, TX
Posts: 6,544
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

I do not know of a scientific way to determine wood thickness but it must exist.

I would identify a kit that is about the same size as my goal for the Guillow model and see if the manual is online. If so it should tell you what wood is used.

I have built three Great Planes kits and started a fourth. All are 40 size or 60 size. Most of the balsa parts are 3/32 in all of them. My Uproar has some 1/8 balsa but mostly 3/32. Lite ply parts are 1/8 and firewalls are 1/4 or 3/8 (laminated from 1/8 parts).
Old 05-21-2012, 03:23 PM
  #12  
foodstick
 
foodstick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ankeny, IA
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

heres a basic story of how I made the 80 inch 109..

Used all 1/4 inch sticks for longerons, I think you could go down a size on an electric. I also added a stick here and there to hold the fuse shape in back, because it is not sheeted...

For gas 1/4 ply firewall moved to correct position so that spinner lines up with front of cowl when mounted..

All bulkheads light ply from front to behind fuse

blocked in or sheeted nose of fuse to back of wing,

wing saddle area doubled up for strength

added more stringers in wing, and shear webs

plywood ribs, and tri stock gussets to hold the landing gear blocks

sheeted leading edge.

biggest mistake was not rounding the leading edge a bit more than the plans, it was extreme pitch sensitive since the airfoil was made for a slow glide.

If building electric, try to get ar servos, battery etc.. up under the cowl...
Old 05-23-2012, 03:36 PM
  #13  
combatman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Palmyra, NJ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Toysareforkids: That is a great resource, thank you!

Foodstick: I saw the Youtube video of your plane and read about what you did. Very inspirational. Correct me if I am wrong, but it does not appear that you fully sheeted it. How did you cover it? I would love to enlarge the F6F-3 32" Hellcat, but I know nothing about changing incidences and what areas to reinforce. I do know that I will need to add a spar.
Old 05-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #14  
foodstick
 
foodstick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: ankeny, IA
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

everything behind the cockpit/wing saddle is fabric covered sticks, it is beefed up around the tail wheel.. the fabric/paint and weathering tricks the eye
Old 05-24-2012, 07:21 AM
  #15  
ARUP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,343
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

There's a whole list of these that have been converted to electric RC on one of the RCGroups forums.
Old 05-25-2012, 12:10 PM
  #16  
combatman
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Palmyra, NJ
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?


ORIGINAL: ARUP

There's a whole list of these that have been converted to electric RC on one of the RCGroups forums.
Arup,

Yes, we know. There is a link to that list in post #8. But my question was NOT how to convert to RC.

My question centered around scaling up (ie enlarging) the Guillows planes and what was required.
Old 05-26-2012, 02:37 AM
  #17  
Toysareforkids
Senior Member
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deer Lodge, TN
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Has anyone scaled up a Guillow kit for glow or electric?

Some of the things that should be done when up sizing and converting to rc are, the ribs and leading edge are design for free flight (rubber band power) the ribs are flat and with athinner airfoil, and a sharp leading edge. It's better to raise the leading edge and curve up the bottom of the rib to theleading edge, by adding wood stripto the bottom of the rib, tapering from the rear of the rib to the front. And round off the leading edge.Not all of the Giullows kits are sharp flat bottm ribs, but most ofthem are.

The wing incidence needs to be changed to "0"or "1" degree to the thrust line of the airplane. it is set to keep the plane floating without power.

The CG must be changed! use the control line cg (about 25% back), not the freeflite one! Or it will be tail heavy. Tail heavy planes fly, but usually only once!Then test fly it to see if you need more orless nose weight

I don't like the all stick cunstruction of Giullows planes. It's to make them light to fly better, because it's rubber band powered, and a free flite plane. If you read some of the buildings in the site I listed above, you'll see that alot of the people sheet their planes with 1/32 balsa. It smooths the services and gives it strength. On the wings it keeps the airfoil shape, between the ribs, which gives more lift also as to strength. Incease sheeting sizewith the size plane your up scaling to.

When you blow up the size, you need to look at the wood sizes and decide what to measure and use, and what to increase for strength, and what is good, or needs to be changed to lightn up.

You have to decide what to do for motor/engine mounting, as to what to do for the firewall. as with battery hatch for electric.
I build them with removeable wings, so that I can get to, and mount the rc stuff easier

Every plane is different! I up size them to 30" wing span because I can fly a plane of that size in my backyard. My flyingfield is 45 twisting mountain miles away, for my bigger planes. Usually the bigger you make it, the better it will fly. There is a thing called scale affects, and the smaller you make it,harder it will be tofly good, without chaging things, and those things are the things you need to change back to fly better and to be stronger, But! still light.

I hope this helps you get an idea as what needs to be done, it's not everything, but will help you decide what to change, or areas to look at.

Pat

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.