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Old 06-04-2012 | 07:07 AM
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Default Help! Polycrylic Disaster

I recently completed a Hog Bipe and covered the airplane with Wordtex iron on fabric. Had read where that a lot of folks apparently use Minwax Semigloss Polycrylic as a sealer for the covering. Newbie that i am, i though keep it simple. The research is done and hammer down. I used the spray can method for application although some people recomended airspraying with a drying control additive. It went on nicely and was applied on an average to low humidy day here in the Deep South. All parts were allowed to cure for a full month while the project was completed. Glow powered airplane, running 15% nitro. .

Now I had read that a few folks had experienced some gummyness which some had had concluded was a result of not letting it cure long enough before fuel exposure or allowing fuel to stay on it too long. I think in one thread some one specified to get fuel residue off within 4 hours and then also added that any gummyness that resulted from leaving fuel on too long would go away in a week or two and the material would reharden. But nothing had prepared me for what has happened. The mess is disolving.

I would like to say that the advice of using this stuff might be correct maybe in a desert enviroment, but it dang sure is NOT true for my world. Every where fuel has even thought about touching is either in the process of either being a gummed up mess sucking up dirt or has disolved completely away as in the case of the forward fusalage bottom.

So that is where i am and i need some help in figuring how to get this mess off my apparently ruined beautiful coveing job. I have entertained the idea of spraying the whole airplane with 30% helo fuel and letting it soak for a day or so. There is two coats of that canned crap on the Hog, and one can only imagine trying to rub the resulting sticky sludge off the covering of the open structure wing areas and in particular delicate areas like the interplane strut mounts. Any suggestions on a solvent that won't eat the fabric or it's adhesive? I really nead some help here guys from someone that has been in this trap.
Old 06-04-2012 | 08:39 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Man, I hate to hear your problem. I tried that stuff several years ago and learned very quickly that it isn't worth the risk. In my case I just stripped it all off and recovered.

Sorry to hear your trouble.
Old 06-04-2012 | 09:34 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

same problem last year stripped it all off and re covered the edges even rolled up on mine
Old 06-04-2012 | 10:08 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Polycrylic is NOT fuel proof. There is a ton of info on RCU on how and when to use it and a ton of info on how it is not fuel proof.

Paul
Old 06-04-2012 | 01:51 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

I have recieved some really useless replies such as 'strip the covering', or ' There is info out there saying it is not fuel proof'. I need info on a solvent.
Old 06-04-2012 | 02:24 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Bummer of a situation. I use PolyC alot to fill the weave in the fabric on my planes and also as a clear coat but I am running gas. I have not had any issues. I am not sure of what solvent to use that would not harm the fabric finish below. I would venture to say you will have to recover the plane as bad as you hate to hear it.
Best of Luck!!
Anthony
Old 06-04-2012 | 03:08 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

I had a "bad Polycryllic day" on a BUSA DH-4 over colored Solartex. I cleaned it off with laquer thinner. The Solartex was not harmed.
I offer the usual caveat that you test a small spot in an inconspicuous place.
Chuck
Old 06-04-2012 | 03:18 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Got this from the minwax site:

Use a chemical paint remover containing methylene chloride. It will do the fastest job and the most complete. Follow the directions on the label. 
I'd strip the covering first as recommended previously, then deal with what's left chemically.

I have recieved some really useless replies such as 'strip the covering', or ' There is info out there saying it is not fuel proof'.  
Hey, we're just tryin' to help, don't shoot the messenger(s).

Google is your friend.
Old 06-04-2012 | 04:02 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Been there and done that a number of years ago when I deided to use water base Poly-u. Here is what I did.

Get yourself some paint stripper with MEK (as eddieC states) but get the kind that is water clean up. Get some of those green scrubber pads and a bunch of rags.
I got a bundle of the white looks-like-towels from Sams. Bucket of warm water. Old paint or chipping brush. Dab on some of the remover and spread it around some
but not too thin. It will bubble the surface some. Dip a scrubber in the water and lightly rub (scrub) the area. KEEP THE SCRUBBER CLEAN. Pat (do NOT rub) with one
of the rags/towles. Repeat as necessary. Take your time and you can get the old stuff off. I did NOT harm my covering (Super Coverite). I let the entire airplane dry
for two days and sort of helped it along with some heat from a heat gun. When all is done. LIGHTLY wipe everything with denatured alcohol. Before you apply the next
finish use a tack rag.

Now, it is MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that water based Poly-U can be successful. I use it all the time. But, I use Varethane Diamond Floor Finish water base. I use
it to glass and fuel proof and seal Solartax (my covering of choice now). Downside might be it is not cheap. Last time I bought some (2007 or 2008) it was $42.00
a gallon at Lowe's.

Nine years ago I built a tote to carry two jugs of glow fuel from lite ply. Stained and finished with the water base Poly-U and the finish is still holding up and has most of
it's original gloss.

I have successfully used it over painted Solartex and sealed colored Solartex running both glow fuel (10 and 15%) and of course gas. My PERSONAL experience here.

Good luck with your "project".

One more thing and don't ask! DO NOT get any of the remover on windshields, windows, acetate and/or the like. Results NOT good.

Dan



Old 06-04-2012 | 05:12 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

I have recieved some really useless replies such as 'strip the covering',
[:'(]
Old 06-04-2012 | 05:54 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

If I recall correctly, Sig's dope thinner has quite a bit of MEK in it.
Old 06-04-2012 | 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Bummer. I feel your pain but mine was a batch of epoxy that didn't kick on a wooden boat.

Make a test sample of your covering on balsa and try MEK (if you can find it) or other products. Turpentine has become underutilized as a solvent but still does a great job on some surfaces and it is wood friendly (being a wood byproduct). I get a product called Kleen Strip KS-3 Stripper that will likely remove the ploy. nicely - but I have no idea what it might do to the covering and the glue of the covering. It can be neutralized with mineral spirits when done.
Old 06-04-2012 | 07:23 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Many Many Thanks to All, and I meant no offence to anyone.

I am just frustrated and have attached photo of this build and hence my frustration at suggestions of just casually stripping the cover off and admonishing shouted comments about it not being fuel proof from 'authorities' that then offer no solution. Which lead to me blocking several posters out of frustration when i saw the initial replies, Sorry Vicman, i blocked you before i really looked at your post.

There are threads out there that promote this material being acceptable for a top sealer over colored iron fabrics for glow powered airplanes by the misinformed and or ones that got away with using it. Apparently i am just the latest victim of this old wives tale that Minwax Polycrylic is a fuel proof solution for a top coat that has floated around in threads for years judging by what r8893, Dant rcu, Eddie c and Charles p had to say about cleaning up the aftermath of using it.

Again, thanks to all ! I knew there has to be a way of cleaning up this mess and will proceed accordingly.

Which leads to the next question. What will work for method of sealing the weave of
Worldtex type materials, or should i just run it bare?
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Old 06-04-2012 | 11:50 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster


ORIGINAL: Steveibrc


Which leads to the next question. What will work for method of sealing the weave of
Worldtex type materials, or should i just run it bare?
This is what I use for fuel proofing, http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...g-polyurethane , The firewall, engine bay, wing saddles, fuse bottoms any where fuel might get to. I use it to fuel proof the wood before I cover the plane and have never had a problem. This stuff soaks into the wood and is thin and much nicer to work with than epoxy. However.... I've never used it on top of a fabric covering.

So okay, your thinking.... how does this fit my situation??? Well....I don't see why you couldn't use it over covering its just that I've never done it. It is fuel proof though. The only thing I might worry about is that it might yellow over time after exposure to sunlight. But as your covering is cream and black you might not notice it (or it'll give your plane an old timey fabric look). The other thing I might worry about is being sure you got all the old chemicals off before putting this stuff on. Did the Polycrylic soak into the fibers or underlying wood??? good luck getting it out. My gut tells me that your probably going to run into contamination problems but its worth a try before pulling the covering off.

I did notice these products that "might" not have the coloring problem but I have no idea how fuel proof they are.

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...d-polyurethane
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...ane-for-floors

My mother swore by spar varnish and I'll admit its tough as nails but everyone I've used really yellows over time. This stuff has a UV blocker though... Hmmm, may have to pick some up and try it myself.
http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/...-spar-urethane

Hope this helps,
Mike
Old 06-05-2012 | 03:59 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

ORIGINAL: Steveibrc

Many Many Thanks to All, and I meant no offence to anyone.

I am just frustrated and have attached photo of this build and hence my frustration at suggestions of just casually stripping the cover off and admonishing shouted comments about it not being fuel proof from 'authorities' that then offer no solution. Which lead to me blocking several posters out of frustration when i saw the initial replies, Sorry Vicman, i blocked you before i really looked at your post.

There are threads out there that promote this material being acceptable for a top sealer over colored iron fabrics for glow powered airplanes by the misinformed and or ones that got away with using it. Apparently i am just the latest victim of this old wives tale that Minwax Polycrylic is a fuel proof solution for a top coat that has floated around in threads for years judging by what r8893, Dant rcu, Eddie c and Charles p had to say about cleaning up the aftermath of using it.

Again, thanks to all ! I knew there has to be a way of cleaning up this mess and will proceed accordingly.

Which leads to the next question. What will work for method of sealing the weave of
Worldtex type materials, or should i just run it bare?

I think that many are confused about Minwax products.

In my experience, the Polycryllic is not fuel proof, but here is what make things confusing.

Minwax also sells a polyurethane, available in cans and spray bombs. I have found the polyurethane to be at least fuel resistant, and useable for our purposes.

The confusion arises when the differences between polycrillc and polyurethane are not understood.

For removal, I suggest that you try lacquer thinner, first. If that fails, give MEK a shot. I purchase MEK at Ace Hardware, but it may not be available in all states.

My Dallaire Sportster is covered in Solartex, and sealed with Minwax polyurethane. It is in it's second season. The fnish is holding up well to 15% fuel.
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Old 06-05-2012 | 04:49 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Well, the question where do you go from here short of stripping and starting over???

If the damage is just to the bottom of the fuse, I'd suggest you carefully clean up and re-paint that area,, then seal the plane with a fuel proof product that wont attack the polycrylic. one more coat wont kill ya,,

I recently tried System 3 waterborne poly with the cross linker on my kingfisher after being told it's basically the same product as Nelson Paint clear is,, It worked quite well, has a very nice simigloss sheen, and after the first dy out being exposed directly to 15% hot and cold nitro fuel there was no evidence of damage,, so it looks to me that it works. this stuff should go right over the policrylic without a problem

good luck
Old 06-05-2012 | 04:53 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Yes, good luck with whatever you do.

Dan
Old 06-05-2012 | 05:05 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Ooops, double post!

Dan
Old 06-05-2012 | 11:41 AM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

You might try a product from Balsa USA called Magic Primer. http://shop.balsausa.com/product_p/454.htm Works great and can be topped with just about any paint you want. This product is used on full scale A/C covering using the Poly Fiber (Stitts) process. It should be thinned 3:1 with Poly Fiber reducer or REAL MEK if you can find it.

Good luck
Old 06-05-2012 | 12:56 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster


ORIGINAL: Steveibrc

I have received some really useless replies such as 'strip the covering', or ' There is info out there saying it is not fuel proof'. I need info on a solvent.
While you may feel personally that these replies are "useless" you should at least appreciate the fact that someone replied. Maybe, just maybe, there is no magic solvent. Then try to get these people with their "useless" info to give you any more help.
Old 06-05-2012 | 05:41 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

sorry you feel that way, rgburrill

Thanks guys for all the help. The laquer thinner souinds like it may do the trick. Will experiment some and see how the cover and adhesive acts. If that looks to be a no go will try the other tecniques put fourth.

Again, thanks
Old 06-06-2012 | 06:10 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

I agree with RGB.
It's not like I didn't try this stuff 10 years ago multiple times before making the decision to do something that works much better and consistantly.
Old 06-09-2012 | 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

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qformat="true" priority="39" locked="false"></w:lsdexception></w:latentstyles></xml><![endif]><![if gte mso 10]><style type="text/css"> Style Definitions */table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-priority:99;mso-style-qformat:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin-top:0in;mso-para-margin-right:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-para-margin-left:0in;line-height:115%;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;}</style><![endif]><p class="MsoNormal">I really want to thank you guys for the suggestions and putting up with my frustrated behavior . I picked up some lacquer thinner today...Cleanstrip Green brand. Tested on a piece of the Worldtex Black i used for trim over the base cover of Antique. It is a no go. Swabbed it on the finish side and it immediately started taking off the black pigment. Flipped it over and tried it on the adhesive and it started eating the glue. So.........Charlie P suggested turpentine....Will try that next. Trying things in order of being able to aquire easily close by.....Again, thanks to all.</p>
Old 06-09-2012 | 08:11 PM
  #24  
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From: Hemderson, NV
Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

Give Acetone a try..
Old 06-09-2012 | 08:19 PM
  #25  
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From: Gulf Shores, AL
Default RE: Help! Polycrylic Disaster

You know........You might have somthing there. I know that it don't like polycrylic. Had some smudges i experimented trying to clean using Acetone, and i saw real quick that it attacked the poly. Couldn't find any turpentine close by. Will try the acetone on some scraps...Thanks.


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