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First Kit

Old 06-07-2012, 06:11 PM
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JH313
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Default First Kit

Hello,
Over the summer I am looking to build a kit, I'm not sure of what and I need some ideas. I have some experience in repairs but nothing in building. This is my second year flying, and I have experience with an Alpha 40, Avistar 40 and my current plane, the Escapade 40, along with the UMX p51 and Corsair. In the long term, I want to get into scale building/flying (mainly WW2 birds). Any suggestions for a plane would be great. Also, I have never had a four stroke, and was thinking about one. Why is there such a big difference in price between Magnum 4-strokes and Saitos? One more question, I was looking at retracts and was wondering why I could get an arf with retracts (hangar 9) cheaper than retracts alone for a kit (ones for the Top-Flite). ome of the planes I was looking at were: The TF Contender, I would build it with the flap to teach me about the management of flaps, a GP Ultra Sport, either 40 or 60, and install retracts to learn how that affects a plane, or a Sig Something Extra to continue along the lines of scale aerobatics. I may be wrong, but this seems like the next step for me.
Thanks for all of the help and if I missed a plane or I'm wrong about something, let me know!
Thanks!
Old 06-08-2012, 08:06 AM
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prgonzalez
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Default RE: First Kit

JH313,

Congratulations for deciding on start building models. Based on my own personal experience, I can tell you that you will find from all of us builders in RCU that there is no one correct answer to what model be the first time built. Many builders will recommend you to build your first warbird after four or five other kits, progressing into complexity and building techniques. Each model type (trainers, aerobatics, sports, scale, pattern, etc.) has some unique building techniques/tasks and at the same time there are some common building techniques to all models that you have to learn. In other words, it can take from a few months up to a few years before you really start building your first warbird. It depends a lot on your craftsmanship skills, patience, commitment, and learning.

Also, there is a cost associated with tools and substitution of materials of construction. If you are bit by the BB (Building Bug), you will always want your next model built better than the previous one. That's when you start materials substitution for improving the quality of construction of your model, thus impacting the quality of flight in most cases. For example, building as light as possible being one of my goals, I do not use steel rods anymore; I use carbon fiber rods instead. That's an added cost.

I would recommend you to start downloading various kit manuals so you can browse and study what it takes to build a kit. Comparing one model with another you will find complexity of steps and building techniques. Then, you have RCU building threads for reference and knowledge base.

I will let others guide you with kit manufacturers and model recommendations.

Edited for adding link:

This thread is an example of what I said at the begining: [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11107905/tm.htm]going to try instead of ARF[/link]
Old 06-08-2012, 01:11 PM
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fledermaus
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Default RE: First Kit

prgonzalez has discussed the big picture issues, and I think he's got it right.

HOWEVER: if you want a straightforward suggestion for a first kit build, I like the SIG 4-Star 60. It is a typical SIG construction, the parts fit very nicely together right out of the box (at least mine did), the plans and instructions are crystal clear, and the plane is a very nice flyer. The design is also very easy to modify if you find you like kit-bashing.

Lots of people fly 4*60s with Saito 91s in them. When I built mine, I couldn't afford the extra $ for a 4-stroke so I put in a SuperTigre G75 which is also a very lovely engine in this plane.

[8D]I see over on the other thread that they are also fond of the 4*. It's nice to have one's opinion backed up
Old 06-08-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: First Kit

JH313,

I agree with both posts above. The Sig Somethin' Extra and the Sig 4 Star is a very popular first kit. The only issue I have with the 4 Star in your situation is that when it is done, it will be very similar to your Escapade. Both planes have a constant chord wing and quite a bit of dihedral, therefore they will fly almost the same. The Sig Somethin' Extra is a great plane, but it is nowhere near anything scale. The wing on the plane is short and has a very thick chord with huge control surfaces. To me, the Somethin' Extra would be a good plane to start to learn 3D with. Given your choices, I would pick the Ultrasport 60 with retracts HANDS DOWN ! ! ! The kit is only slightly more involved than the other two I mentioned, but most of that is due to the amount of carving involved in getting the nose area shaped correctly. Also, the wing on the Ultrasport is double tapered and semi symetrical which makes it a more closely match the wings on most warbirds. One last thing, you can easily add flaps to the Ultrasport to help you learn their use as well. If is sounds like I love Ultrasports, you are absolutely right. If you want to read more about the Ultrasport, just look through the Ultrasport thread in this Forum.

As far as your question regarding the difference in motor costs, I'm not going to bash any one manufacturer, but from my experience of more that a dozen years, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. When you decide which kit you are going to build, if you ever have any problems, there are plenty of great guys on RCUniverse that are more than willing to help you out.

Good luck and let us know which way you decide to go......

David
Old 06-10-2012, 06:02 AM
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smithcreek
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Default RE: First Kit

I typed out a response then saw that hrrcflyer posted almost exactly what I was going to post. Ultra-Sport with fully sheeted wing, retracts and flaps, closest thing to building a warbird you will find. Not only that, but you could EASILY modify the Ultra-Sport to be a "way-standoff" Mustang. To be honest even though it would be way-standoff, it would look better than any Hanger-9 ARF. If you fully sheeted the wing, and the fuse is already fully sheeted (or slab actually), you could fiberglass and paint the plane. All great stuff if you want to practice and make mistakes on a sport model before building your true warbird.

As far as engines go, decide on one or two you are interested in and start watching the RCU and RCG classified ads. I have never paid retail for an engine. Last one I bought was a Saito 100 for $225, brand new and that was a good deal, but not the best I've come across by a long shot.
Old 06-10-2012, 06:32 AM
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Default RE: First Kit

If you want a simple kit to get started and get a little experience building, the Uproar kit or the Dazzler kit are good builds and fly similar to the Somethin Extra. Somethin Extra is also a good kit and great flying plane, but cost a little more.
Also, there is nothing wrong with Magnum 4 strokes. I've got Saitos and Magnums,I can't complain about either one other than the finish on the Saitos holds up a little better and you usually pay more for a Saito.
Old 06-10-2012, 05:27 PM
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JH313
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Default RE: First Kit

The somethin extra is out. I saw one at the field today and isn't as scale as I though it would be. I also think I will choose the US over the Contender. The Ultra Sport has many more followers and threads. Plus, over the last few weeks I began to notice I tend to fly faster than slower and the retracts would make low passes look so much better. Is there any preference (both building and flying) between the 40 and 60? Also, is there much of a difference between the performance of the mechanical vs air retracts recommended for the kit? The mechanical are half the price of air, plus I don't have to worry about air pressure. Here's what I am thinking:

US 60
Magnum 91
JR FM
Standard BB servos
6v 2000mAh battery
Dave Brown Southern Pro Retractable Landing Gear
Ultrakote

US40
Same as above, Magnum 52

A few questions,
1. Should I build over plan or buy Wing Jig?
2. Would the hinge cutter by GP and marking tool be worth purchasing?
Thanks for the help.
PS: If you would recommend a different plane, please let me know why as I haven't fully decided on a kit yet.
Old 06-10-2012, 05:57 PM
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Default RE: First Kit

The hinge slotter and marking tool are great. I have them both and did all the hinges on my Kadet in about 10 minutes. I also use the slotting tool for making long slots like those used for pushrods, so it is multipurpose.
Old 06-11-2012, 05:09 AM
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Default RE: First Kit

Ditto on the hinge tool. It will come in handy. You may also want to get a razor plane, Z-saw and mitre box, a covering trim tool, and a pin vise.
The 60 is going to be easier to fly, easier to see, etc just due to the fact of being larger. As far as building, it will take a little more room on the work table, but other than that, not much difference. If you are a person who is thorough and pays attention to detail, you can do just fine building over the plans. But the wing jig would probably serve you well, especially if you plan on doing more builds.  Just my opinion of course.
Old 06-11-2012, 06:50 AM
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bikerbc
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Default RE: First Kit

The Ultra Sport 60 is fantastic plane..I built my wing over the plans and it was very easy but I have a fair amount of experience..The US does come with a wing jig to help you keep the wing straight...I used E Flight electric retracts and am very happy with them..They are very easy to install and work great although I found the wire legs a bit soft and easy to bend..I made new ones out of music wire and they are standing up much better. I haven't built a US 40 so I can't honestly compare them but it has been my experience the bigger is better..Easier to see,easier to fly, penetrate the wind better etc etc..I am using an OS 75 AX on my Ultra Sport and it is a great match..I would not use a four stroke on an US . The hinge slotter is super handy. It is well worth having...It makes installing hinges so much easier...
Old 06-11-2012, 08:14 AM
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Default RE: First Kit

IMO, no on the wing jig and the hinge slotter depends. I've switched almost exclusively to Robart hinges on any 60 size plane or above. Again, if you are looking to practice building skills for a warbird you may want to use something like Robart hinges now. Everything has a learning curve, even putting in hinges.
Old 06-11-2012, 02:18 PM
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JH313
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Default RE: First Kit

bikerbc, Why wouldn't you use a four stroke, any specific reason? (Especially since the magnum 91 is cheaper than the evo 61)
smithcreek, What do the Robart hinges have to offer that I should buy them? What size?
What about lights, will they make a large difference during the day time? Which ones?

Thanks for all of the ideas, support, suggestions and keep it coming!
(Now need to pick a color scheme...)
Old 06-12-2012, 01:00 AM
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bikerbc
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Default RE: First Kit

The Ultra Sport is a fast plane that just seems like it needs a two stroke too me..Just like a Cub needs a four stroke..
Old 06-12-2012, 01:02 AM
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bikerbc
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Default RE: First Kit

The Ultrs Sport is a fast plane that just seems like it needs a two stroke too me..Just like a Cub suits a four stroke..
Old 06-12-2012, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: First Kit

JH313,

I'm glad you're considering joining the Ultrasport club. You will not be dissappointed.......... If you are still trying to decide which size, I'd suggest the 60 size. I have also seen them fly with both 4 strokes and 2 stroke motors. The plane flies well with either one, but the vast majority I've seen have been using 2 strokes with the OS 75AX being the most popular. Your choice of a 91 4 stroke will be great in the 60 size. One great thing about the US kits, the instruction give different locations for the fire wall based on whether you use a 2 or 4 stroke motor.

If I may suggest, I'd recommend building the plane as a tail dragger and buy a set of the E-Flite electric retracts. They are more expensive, but there is no hassle with air or linkages to worry about.

David
Old 06-13-2012, 11:37 AM
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JH313
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Default RE: First Kit

will the evolution 2/4 stroke plugs work in the Magnum engines?
Old 06-13-2012, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: First Kit

JH313,

I'm not familiar with the Evolution plugs. I've had OS, Saito and YS four stroke motors and I used the OS Type F plug in all of them with great success. Have you ordered your US60 kit yet?????????[X(]

David

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