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Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Old 06-05-2013, 10:31 AM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Hello all.
This past weekend I came across a nice yard sale find. The kit plans for the Great Planes Big Stik 60. I have always wanted a Stik, so I have put this plane to the front of my build list. My question is to those who have built the Big Stik kit. Is there anything I should look out for? Are there any weak spots that need some beefing up? Any mods you would recommend? Thanks in advance.
Old 06-05-2013, 10:56 AM
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karolh
 
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

My GP Big Stik is 20 years old and has outlived several engines. Over the years I have done several mods to it, some just for looks and others for flyability. One mod I think everyone should incorporate is having one servo per aileron instead of just one as shown on the plans.
Old 06-05-2013, 11:18 AM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Karolh

Thanks for your reply. I will use two servos for the ailerons. I noticed that the ARF of this bird is now set-up that way. Thanks for your help.
Old 06-05-2013, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Tried uploading a picture of mine but the system is not cooperating.....pity.
Old 06-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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eddieC
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Do a search for Ed Moorman (IIRC). He's written for several magazines, has modded Sticks for years and gotten them to handle like pattern planes. 

One mod I'm doing to mine is squaring the wingtips and making removable tip plates. 
Old 06-05-2013, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

I second that as in collaboration with Ed I added end plates to my Stik's wing and together with some aileron differential it improved it's roll rate and slow speed stability. Ed is a wealth of information on models especially where Stiks are concerned.
Old 06-06-2013, 05:09 AM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

eddieC, karolh, thanks for your help. I think I will try the end plates. I have never had these on a plane before. I will do more of a search for info from Ed. Thanks again.
Old 06-06-2013, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

I built a Big Stik 60 from GP plans, and it was a fantastic plane. I lost mine to a crash with another plane in flight. Mine was powered by a ST .75, and needed tail weight. I made it with the four nylon 1/4-20 wing mount screws, which was a good mount system. If I were to build another one, I would change it to tail dragger. I also used two aileron servos. Don't waste time shaping the scallops into the ailerons and elevator unless you really like the appearance- too time consuming and hard to cover. Plane is like a reliable truck with easy handling flight.
Old 06-07-2013, 03:07 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

I built a 60 size Big Stik from a kit last year. Lots of modifications and its by far my favorite plane.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:04 AM
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karolh
 
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans


Here is a picture of mine.
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:57 AM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Thanks for the replies and the photos. Some nice looking Stiks there. I was thinking of making some cosmetic changes as well, but I was worried that it would adversely affect the flight characteristics of the plane. So my next question is have you noticed any ill effects of these changes from the original? Also, I would like to know your method of installing the aileron servos. I have seen several methods of installation and I would like to know what works best for this bird. One more question. Is that the landing gear that came with the kit? Would that be the same that is available for the ARF of this plane? The plans show a beefy L5 gear. The ARF gear seems less so. I need something that will hold up to some rough landings. (Please notice my username.) Your suggestions on landing gear replacement would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.
Old 06-07-2013, 09:02 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

ORIGINAL: Sir Crashalot

Thanks for the replies and the photos. Some nice looking Stiks there. I was thinking of making some cosmetic changes as well, but I was worried that it would adversely affect the flight characteristics of the plane. So my next question is have you noticed any ill effects of these changes from the original? Also, I would like to know your method of installing the aileron servos. I have seen several methods of installation and I would like to know what works best for this bird. One more question. Is that the landing gear that came with the kit? Would that be the same that is available for the ARF of this plane? The plans show a beefy L5 gear. The ARF gear seems less so. I need something that will hold up to some rough landings. (Please notice my username.) Your suggestions on landing gear replacement would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

The Stik design allows one a fair amount of latitude in making cosmetic changes to one's model without incurring any bad flying habits and after numerous changes to mine it's as nice a flier as it ever was.

For installing servos in the wings for ailerons I chose a wing bay mid span the ailerons and used a piece of 1/8" thk. ply as the servo tray which is glued to runners fitted to the sides of the wing ribs and lower wing spar. Because of the 23cc gas engine's 16" prop needing more ground clearance than the stock gear allows I used a taller alum. l/gear from a Goldberg Wild Stick.
Old 06-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

karolh

Thanks for the info. I'm going to try my hand at a few cosmetic changes, so it doesn't look like every other Stik at the field. Thanks again.
Old 06-07-2013, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

I think this pic will show the servo mount in the wing. I used the landing gear from the Giant Stik ARF and cut the center to fit (4" vs 4 1/2")

I have built several Big Stik kits, 60s and 40s. They are a quick build that can easily be modified. On mine using low rates they all fly about the same as stock, on high rates its a different story.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:20 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

This is a 40 I did last year also (RIP). This one flew the best of all of them.
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:25 PM
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karolh
 
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Wow, everything looks so neat and tidy. Seems like to impress us you cleaned up your work table before taking the the pics.

That's pretty much how I did my install except I butted my ply servo tray against the main spar/web plate
Old 06-07-2013, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

The Stik HAS to be a taildragger......
Old 06-08-2013, 05:43 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

The landing gear from the 60 sized ARF will work fine as long as you don't run more than a 12" prop. Bigger prop will require taller gear. BTW, it is quite strong.
Old 06-08-2013, 10:26 AM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Thanks guys for your replies. FlyingPilgrim, thanks for the info on the landing gear. I plan on swinging a 12 inch prop, so this will most likely work. I see that tower sells both the nose and main gear as a replacement for the ARF. So I will look into placing an order. Thanks again.
Old 06-08-2013, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Hey, guys. I saw my name mentioned and thought I'd better jump in.

The absolute best mod is to put 3 degrees of anhedral in each wing panel. Here's the reason and some photos.

For a quick explanation, turn a low wing plane over and what do you have? A high wing plane with anhedral. The low wing plane flies well either upright or inverted, so a high wing plane with anhedral should do the same.

Pictures first, then on the next reply, I'll show you a rehash of an old R/C Report column.
1. The Big Stick actually needed a little more anhedral to cancel roll with rudder.
2. Patches, a Stick made from an old Mach I wing and original fuselage.
3. Great Planes Easy Sport with dihedral brace inverted for anhedral.
4. Eagle trained with wing on upside down to demonstrate anhedral to guys at field.
5. Joss Stick with anhedral.
6. Stealth-original design with PVC fuselage & built up wing.
7. SK50 from Kangke USA.
8. Ultra Stick 40 with 3 deg. anhedral each side. Great knife edge, no roll.
9. Ultra Stick 60 with 3 deg. anhedral.
10. Goldberg Wild Stik 40.
11. Goldberg Wild Stik 120.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:13 PM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

To continue on about Sticks, you can see from the photos that I have built and flown many Stick type planes with anhedral. This is more than enough to prove that it works. Besides, I think it looks cool.

Here is a rehash of an old R/C Report column on dihedral effect with the aero reasons for anhedral in shoulder wing or high wing planes.

Since some of you may be new to RC, here are some definitions. Dihedral is the upward angle of the wings. Virtually all full scale planes, with the exception of jet fighters, have dihedral. Many fighters have the opposite of dihedral, which is called anhedral, the downward slope of the wings.

Dihedral helps level the wings whether you want it to or not. Full scale planes normally have a lot of dihedral so the pilot doesn’t have to work very much to keep the plane upright. A trainer also has a lot of dihedral so it will have a tendency to right itself making it easier for a student to learn how to fly it. Acro planes, on the other hand, don’t need this self-righting effect. What you want in an acro plane is for it to stay where you put it. This might lead you to question whether acro planes need dihedral at all. The answer to this is, “Sometimes,” or “Maybe.” This can depend on a lot of other things that lead to a need for dihedral in an acro plane.

Things start happening to a plane when you put in rudder. We call this roll coupling and it is due to dihedral effect. You have seen roll coupling in a trainer. You put in rudder and the plane rolls just as if you put in aileron. This is great for a three-channel plane, it makes it works, but it isn’t good for an acro plane. When we do knife edge and point rolls or any other maneuver with rudder alone we would like to have pure yaw without the rolling tendency. The big problem is not just dihedral causes this dihedral effect. Several physical attributes of an airplane such as wing location, wing sweep and dihedral can cause roll both in the direction of the rudder and also opposite to it. That’s right, opposite. And since we always have dihedral, sweep and vertical location, every plane is a compromise and a good designer uses knowledge of these effects to make his plane perform as well as possible.

Here are these attributes and what effect they cause when rudder is applied. First here they are grouped by similar attribute:

Here’s dihedral first.
Dihedral Causes roll in the direction of rudder.
Flat Wing Causes little or no roll.
Anhedral Causes roll opposite to the rudder.

Picture the wing as a “V.” When you turn it slightly sideways, air gets under the forward wing panel and on top of the rearward wing panel causing roll. The reverse is true for anhedral. Now I know you’ve probably heard that when you put rudder in one wing panel moves forward increasing speed causing more lift which, in turn, causes the roll. Now I’m not going to say, “Tain’t so,” but I’ve flown mid-wing planes with no dihedral and if you get roll with rudder, it’s in the noise level.


Now here’s sweep:
Sweep Back Causes roll in the direction of rudder
Straight wing Causes very little or no roll.
Sweep Forward Causes roll opposite to the rudder

Picture the plane with swept back wings. Yaw the plane sideways so one wing is cross ways to the air flow. This makes it like a straight wing. The air is coming right across the wing making lots of lift. Now check out the rearward wing. It is angled back so most of the air is going down the wing instead of across. Not much lift. The result is a rolling tendency. A swept forward wing gives you the opposite effect causing opposite roll.
-

Finally, here is wing location:
High Wing Location Causes roll in the direction of the rudder.
Mid-Wing Location Causes very little or no roll.
Low Wing Location Causes roll opposite to the rudder. Left rudder, right roll.

Take your high wing plane out and sit it so the fuselage is at about a 45-degree angle to you with the nose closest. Let’s say you are looking at the right side of the plane. Imagine a line down the side of the plane in the center of the fuselage. You may even have a pin stripe there already. When you are flying and put in left rudder, this picture is what the airflow is seeing. To flow around the fuselage, it splits at the center line and part goes over the top of the fuselage and part goes under the fuselage. Some of the air flow that goes over the top hits the underside of the left wing, causing a left roll.

Do the same thing with a low wing plane and you’ll see that a left rudder yaw produces a RIGHT roll. That’s correct, roll opposite to the rudder.

OK, now that I have explained the effects, let me rearrange them another way and look at them grouped by effect:

Rudder input causes roll in the same direction as the rudder for wings with:
Dihedral, sweep back and high wing location.

Rudder input causes no roll on wings that are:
Flat wing, straight wing and mid-wing location.

Rudder input causes roll opposite to the direction of the rudder for wings with:
Anhedral, sweep forward and low wing location.

Very interesting, don’t you think? Take a look at a trainer. It has dihedral and a high wing location. You get a lot of roll when you put in rudder. This is how three-channel planes work. Check out one of the Sticks with a flat wing, but a high wing location. Put in some right rudder and you’ll get right roll. How about a low wing plane? I’m sure there are those of you who think you should take the dihedral out of a low wing plane to make it more aerobatic. Don’t do it. Some time ago, a friend of mine had a low wing giant that was built without dihedral. I asked him to fly it straight and level and put in some rudder, but not correct with the ailerons. He put in right rudder and, sure enough to his surprise, it rolled left!

Here’s what all this means. You would like an aerobatic plane to not go into any rolling gyrations when you put in rudder, especially in knife edge or point rolls. To get rid of the rudder-roll coupling, low wing planes need dihedral or sweep back to compensate for the low wing location. High wing planes need sweep forward or anhedral to compensate for the high wing location. Mid wing planes normally don’t need much of anything.




Old 06-08-2013, 04:36 PM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

More of Sticks.

If you're not tired of me, here are some more things to mod into your Stick.

1. Use some tail bracing wires. Big Sticks, and most other Sticks have the stab glued on to the bottom of the fuselage. It can be cracked loose by hangar rash or a bad landing. My favorite bracing line is weedeater line. You got it, cheap, small size weedeater line. It doesn't weigh anything and it glues in with CA. The lines don't have to be drum tight, just enough to keep the stab from breaking loose. If you have a nose heavy condition, and Big Sticks tend to build nose heavy, use 2-56 pushrods. See photo.
2. Most Sticks tend to build nose heavy. My way of combating this without adding weight is to build the plane without the battery or the rudder & elevator servos. Then I check the CG. It needs to be on the main spar or there abouts. Don't get picky over an eighth of an inch.
Tape the battery and 2 servos on top the wing over where they will be located and check the CG. If it's OK, you're golden. If not try moving the battery back. If this doesn't work, move the rudder servo back in front of the tail and tape it there and recheck the CG. I needed my rudder servo moved to the rear. Cut a hole in the balsa top, fit the servo in and screw it in. Yeah, screw it into the thin balsa. Remove the screws and hit the holes with thin CA. Remount the servo, hook up the rudder and go for it. Hey, I used this for an engine test and break-in airplane for 16, right, 16, different engines and the servo never came loose. Don't make a project here.
If you still need tail weight, move the elevator servo to the rear. See photo on US60. My buddy, the late Flaps Laffert built this plane for me. I don't know why he put the servo on the side of the exhaust. Maybe it was to keep the servo well oiled.
3. Side mount your engine. The fuel jet in the carb needs to be vertically even with the middle of the tank. You can't get this with an upright engine. The engine will lean out continually throughout the flight. It does some anyway, but with the tank lower than the carb it'll be worse. If you insist on mounting upright, mount it under the engine mount legs. Looks funny, but it lowers the engine relative to the tank. No back sass about thrust lines, please, this is a Stick we're talking about.
4. If you insist on keeping a flat wing, but want your Stick to fly better anyway, cut off the Fokker style wing tips and add downward tip plates. That is, the plate is even with the top of the airfoil, but extends downward 3/4". This is usually the correct amount. I did an experiment on a small, .28-sized Stick and came out with 3/4". That's a lite ply tip with 1/4" line spacing. I flew, tried knife edge. At first, it rolled backwards to the rudder. The down plate acts like anhedral. I landed, trimmed off 1/4" with my Craftsman shears and tried again. At 3/4" left it was pretty stable in knife edge with only a touch of aileron needed every now & then.
5. Landing gear. The best gear I have found is the DuBro Super Strength gear. It's fiber-filled nylon, curved and only costs about $15 from Tower. It will not break. OK, maybe in the extreme cold for you snow fliers, it might, but you can literally flatten them out and they will spring back into exact shape. They are sort of creamy white. You'll see them on most my planes. Here's one on my Tango.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:08 PM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Here's what happened to the Wild Stik with anhedral. I manager to stumble and stepped on the stab. I couldn't get it straight, so I lopped it off and flew the plane as a flying wing or tailless design. Flew great, actually. It would do some cool end-over-end tumbles. No, I didn't trim down and sand the stub stabs, I just sawed the stab off. No, I didn't cover the bare balsa with epoxy, the plane was practically a wreck anyway. It was expendable.

I finally had an engine failure and landed in a tree, tearing the gear off. I was going to fix it, but fuel had soaked through much of the covering-it was several years old-and it wasn't worth it.

I still had the Wild Stik wing, so, guess what, I recycled it and made another plane. PVC downspout fuselage, hand launch. Yes, that's a screen door handle. Flies OK. Needs the CG moved back.

I didn't mean to take up so much space, but sometimes I just get going. If you have any questions, I'm here.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:33 PM
  #24  
karolh
 
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Hi Ed, it's been awhile but thank you for dropping in and sharing those very informative posts and pictures with us.

Karol
Old 06-09-2013, 02:05 PM
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Sir Crashalot
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Default RE: Great Planes Big Stik Kit Plans

Ed
I was hoping you would drop in and share your expertise. Thanks for the photos and all the mod info. Your planes are awesome! I can’t wait to try this bird with the anhedral wing. I already know what the guys at the field are going to say. “Hey dumb nut. Your wing is on upside down!” Should be good fun. Just for clarification, is that 3 deg. each wing for a total of 6 degs. overall or 3 degs total? Also, thanks for the landing gear recommendation. I saw this on tower and thought it might be a close enough match. Thanks again.

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