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Kit Built Kadet Senior Sport

Old 10-21-2014, 12:05 PM
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TomCrump
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Default Kit Built Kadet Senior Sport

I recently lost my Kadet Senior Sport due to a wing malfunction.

This was totally my fault as I had powered the model well above the specified range.

I liked the Sport however. I knew that I wouldn't be happy with another ARF, powered within specified limits, so I've decided to modify a Kadet Senior kit into the Sport version.

A few members of the Kadet thread have expressed an interest in seeing how I would go about modifying the Senior into a Sport.

I'm sure that it has been done before, and I'm sure that there are different ways to go about it. This thread will be about how I do it, but other opinions and suggestions are encouraged.

I will go into a little detail on building the kit, but I will concentrate on my modifications. With that in mind, here we go !

I've started the right wing. So far, it has been build according to the plans. The ailerons will be cut out, and then built in, at a later time.

The first change of design is the leading edge. Square stock is provided. I used triangle stock, leaving a blunt/flat, leading edge. This was done to facilitate the leading edge sheeting, when it is installed.

I'll update this thread as I make progress. I have another build going on, too, so please be patient.

Here are pics of today's progress. I included a pic of my departed Kadet Senior Sport ARF, which I plan to emulate.
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Last edited by TomCrump; 10-21-2014 at 12:07 PM.
Old 10-21-2014, 12:49 PM
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FlyerInOKC
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Subscribing! I have a Kadet Senior on my wishlist too.
Old 10-21-2014, 01:33 PM
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Tom,
I've had my bag of popcorn ready for about a week now! Looking forward to seeing your mods. This will be a valuable thread and I'm happily subscribed. Triangle stock for the leading edge to accommodate sheeting. Terrific!
Old 10-21-2014, 02:42 PM
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TomCrump
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I actually split the kit included leading edge in two, by running it, on edge, through my bandsaw. It's the equivalent of using triangle.

Thanks for joining in, guys. This is a project that I've wanted to do for a long time. I thought the Sport ARF would suffice, but I was mistaken. Building the kit will allow me to really beef up the wing center section. For me, that's important.

I do plan to use the Kadet Sport's landing gear. Although the wheel pants are a little rough, the LG, itself, came through the crash in pretty good shape.

I'll have to take some measurements, but I'm hoping the Sport's cowl will fit the kit version. If so, I'll order one from Sig. The Sport went in nose first. The cowl was unrecognizable. I even broke the carb mount/backplate, on my Magnum .91.

The Magnum has been repaired. I didn't see any damage on the inside. The engine was running extremely well when I put it in. It's just getting broke in, with around 1 1/2 gal of fuel through it.

I'll look at the plans tomorrow, but I believe that the wing is ready to come off the board so that I can start the other side.

This all is weather dependent. If it's warm enough, I plan to fly my Rascal, and maybe my T-Clips tomorrow.

A friend plans to re-maiden his T-Clips after an "incident" that has been freshly repaired.
Old 10-21-2014, 05:01 PM
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EJWash1
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Alright Tom! Git'R done!

Off to a fast start with the wings. I see that you're going with the triangular leading edge stock to support the replacement rectangular leading edge material like you and I were yaking about. Turning the leading edge/spar arrangement into a top and bottom sheeted, 'D' box structure is going to make one heck of a strong (and best weight-to-strength) wing.

As you know, I have the Kadet Sr. in my stash of kits (see pic). One of the things that really intrigues me about this design (and the reason the kit is in my stash) is the challenge of the open-frame fuse joinery. Each individual piece of the framework deserves its own amount of attention and patience. Another kit that Sig defines as a "builder's kit", and the builder really has the opportunity to "bring it" as far as either showing their experience or pushing their envelope further.

My wife and I made a move from the Southwest to the Pacific Northwest this last Summer. We're at the beginning of a home renovation that will consume at least a year. Unable to spend time at the building board during this process, I *really* appreciate following informative and relaxing build threads. For those of you that aren't familiar with Tom's build threads, I nicknamed him "The Sea Bee" for his building speed and impressive results. So guys, hold-on tight!

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Old 10-21-2014, 07:03 PM
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Ya know I'm in Tom

Ken
Old 10-21-2014, 07:10 PM
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52larry52
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Tom, may I be so bold as to suggest that you consider putting wing struts on the upgrade list for your new Senior Sport? In addition to the extra strength for the wing, in my opinion they will add to the good looks of the plane. Yea, they add drag but if I were building a "hot rod" Kadet Senior, wing struts would be on the mod list. Just a thought!
Old 10-21-2014, 08:39 PM
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Hey Tom I'm late arriving and have some reading to do to catch up....... but not tonight. I'll be Baaack
Old 10-22-2014, 03:06 AM
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TomCrump
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Thanks for joining in, guys !

EJ, I liked your suggestion of using triangle stock for the leading edge. When I get there, it will make the LE sheeting an easier task.

I'm nowhere near the craftsman that you are, but I do enjoy the sticks and twigs that go into the Kadet's fuselage. I may use translucent covering to accent this design feature.

Larry, feel free to make suggestions at any time. I don't feel that struts will be necessary, with my planned structural enhancements to the wing, but I do like the looks of wing struts and they are an easy addition to the airframe.

Ken. I hope that your trip is going well.

Big Tee, You haven't missed much. We're just getting warmed up !
Old 10-22-2014, 05:11 AM
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Subscribed!!!
Old 10-22-2014, 05:12 AM
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What attracts me to the Senior Kadet is the open stick construction its like returning to our modeling roots, stick built is the method used in all the old timer designs I keep looking at but with a modern twist.
Old 10-22-2014, 11:55 AM
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TomCrump
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Originally Posted by 4570jackjack View Post
Subscribed!!!
Welcome !

Mike, You may have noticed that most of of my builds have stick type construction. I enjoy that style of building.

After freezing my keester at the field, I came home to warm up, and to build the left wing. They are both at the same point, now.

I'll attach a better picture of the leading edge. Keep in mind that I'll glue a piece of 3/8 or 1/2" stock to it.
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Old 10-22-2014, 12:15 PM
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Looks good! Triangle stock followed by a seperate leading edge makes sense to me. I like your Rascal! I built one in transparent green and white with gold pinstripping.
Old 10-22-2014, 02:31 PM
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TomCrump
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Thanks. Mine is one of those ARFs that I assembled during the Summer. I flew it today, and will again tomorrow.

It was 37 at the field today. The sun looked warm, but it wasn't.
Old 10-22-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCrump View Post
EJ, I liked your suggestion of using triangle stock for the leading edge. When I get there, it will make the LE sheeting an easier task.

I'm nowhere near the craftsman that you are, but I do enjoy the sticks and twigs that go into the Kadet's fuselage. I may use translucent covering to accent this design feature.
Thanks for the compliment Tom, but do NOT underestimate the value and effects of trick photography.

The new leading edge stock won't have to be any thicker than where the leading edge on the plans is drawn. It's the width (top to bottom) that will give the advantage of having the top and bottom sheeting a surface to butt-up against and bond to. And, the sheeting will maintain its thickness leading to trailing edge. If the sheeting were laid and bonded on top of the square leading edge stock, you'd cut into the sheeting when rounding over the leading edge. The triangular stock running span-wise in the "bird's beak" notches in the leading edge is a bonus in that it adds strength at minimal weight.

Have you been kicking wing attachment ideas around at all?

Before our move up here to Washington, I organized my kits by box size, and heat shrink-wrapped three kits together. Made them much easier (and stable) to move. Now, they're stacked (and shrink-wrapped) into 2' X 4' X 5' tall blocks and on top of moving dollies (2' X 4' 3/4" ply platforms on top of the dollies). Today, I took another look at my kit stash, thinking that I had opened my Sr. kit and had removed the plan sheets, rolled them printed-side out, and stored them in a 3" cardboard tube, which is what I pretty-much do with all my kits. Well, not my Sr.! DOH! As in the picture I posted of some of my kit stash, you can see that the Sr. is nice and comfy, smack-dab in the middle of one of the blocks of kits. It's in it's original wrapping, so I hadn't even opened it. I was wishing that I had access to the plans so that I could follow along with your mods.
Old 10-22-2014, 03:11 PM
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TomCrump
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I figured that the leading edge width will depend on the angle created by the sheeting. That's why I mentioned a couple different sizes.

I have idea, but they're just ideas, for mounting the wing. I'll need to have the wing halves joined, and the fuselage mostly constructed, before I know exactlt what I'll do.

Sig has the Kadet Senior build manual online. You can follow along with it, and take notice of any deviations from the plans.

The links are at the bottom of the page. http://www.sigmfg.com/IndexText/SIGRC58.html

You may want to remove the Kadet's plans from the kit box. As is typical for Sig, the plans are folded and heavily creased.

And................as long as you have the box out, and opened, you could forget the house remodel, and build the kit.
Old 10-22-2014, 03:50 PM
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Suscribed.
Old 10-22-2014, 04:32 PM
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TomCrump
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Originally Posted by paof View Post
Suscribed.
Welcome !
Old 10-22-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TomCrump View Post
And................as long as you have the box out, and opened, you could forget the house remodel, and build the kit.
And here it was I thought we were Bros.

One of my housewarming gifts to my dear wife was a Springfield Arms XD-S in 9mm. I'm in a rural area. I have Kubota tractor with a front loader and a Ford F-250. I'm betting you can see where the math is going here if I were to take time away from the home renovation and put a kit on the building board. Now, my wife has never been on a tractor before, and she hasn't fired her XD-S as of yet, but she's a fast study and a capable shot. Oh, have I ever mentioned that she grew-up in New York? Her accent comes on really strong when she gets mad. Yes. I have done things in the past to invoke it.

Thanks for the link. I downloaded the build manual from the Sig website when I got the kit, so I'll be able to follow your build along with it. Yeah, I *hate* folded plans. I iron-out (clothes iron, with steam) folded plans and hang them vertically on the wall for several days. Then I roll and store them.

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Old 10-22-2014, 04:42 PM
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TomCrump
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I can see your wife taking a few pot shots at you, while driving your tractor. From here, it'd be amusing.

It kinda sounds like Ken, with his cast iron pan weilding wife. Again, amusing from a distance.

I have 1.5 hours into the Kadet's wing panels. It's going together well.
Old 10-22-2014, 06:24 PM
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To my advantage, we're in a somewhat wooded area. I have a chance of escape if I run-away in a serpentine fashion.

Do you plan to match the Sport's wing dihedral? How many degrees is it?
Old 10-22-2014, 07:29 PM
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Hey Tom My wife says that cast iron skillet has my name engraved on it. I not about to ask her to show me the engraving.

And our trip is going good.
Asthma about kicked my butt climbing over the continental divide. Then spent the night in flagstaff. I think overnight at that altitude let me acclimate a bit, because leaving we climbed to 7300 and I had no problem. It was also early morning and cold. That made the air thicker.Made Bakersfield for the night. Will finish in Modesto about noon.


We have pressed hard but lots of breaks and no more than 8 hours wheel time each day. And a wonderful visit with a good friend from the BOTR site on our second day.


Ken
Old 10-22-2014, 07:35 PM
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Tom, do you have any ideas on attaching the wing to the fuse? It's always scary trying to put bolt on wings onto a cabin model with mostly windows. I don't really like what Sig did with the Sr Sport, making a windshield to nowhere. I know it adds strength but the old ARF did OK with a real windscreen to the cabin. I often feel the need to put threaded rods connected to more metal, to secure the top to the bottom of the fuse. I'm always curious what sorts of forces our planes go through. Surely the greatest forces are right at the center leading edge of the wing, and when you're pulling a few G's the forces must be quite a bit.
Old 10-22-2014, 09:33 PM
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Tom, You said to "feel free to make suggestions anytime" so here goes...I didn't "sell" you on installing wing struts so let me suggest that you at least install hard points for them now during the build in case you want to add them down the road. I have several planes that were not intended to have struts that I have added them to and that makes their installation "optional" at flight time. Am I going to cruise around this flight or am I going to wring it out? Just a thought!
Old 10-23-2014, 01:51 AM
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TomCrump
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EJ, I am considering no dihedral, but I'm open to ideas.

Rod, I need to build the fuselage, or at least get it started. That will help me invision hat needs to be done. Right now, the plan is to solidify the area between the two widshield posts. The ARF has a ply "hook" the protrudes from the bottom of the wing, and insterts into this reinforced area. We'll see if it's possible to do something similar, here.

Larry, You did sell me on the wing struts. I like like them for the vintage look. They are too easy to design and install to not make them.

Ken, I'm glad that the skillet is not being employed. Have a safe day of driving.

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