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Where have all the builders gone

Old 01-29-2015, 09:39 AM
  #251  
Gray Beard
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I still get a lot of that WHO BUILDS THAT PLANE crap at every field I have gone to. When it first started happening it would piss me off but then I figured that if someone couldn't tell it wasn't an ARF I did a good job. All the ARFs look pretty good these days so I now take it as a complement. It's also a fun thing to play with. Depending on my mood I often make up fake manufactures names and tell them that or come up with some BS story about where they can get one.
It no longer bothers me and with so few people building these days it's a pretty normal question.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:53 AM
  #252  
Leroy Gardner
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Some of the responses got me to thinking and us builders actually build ARF's, every one we build is an ARF at some point, you know, almost ready to fly (ARF) however I'm not sure if we should lump ours up with the China ones.

My last ARF is a classic and you can't buy it in it's present condition
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:22 AM
  #253  
Gray Beard
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Not all ARFs are created equal but these days the better ones are pretty good. There are still a lot of the cheap craps out there but for the most part they aren't too bad. I do recall seeing my first one. It looked really good on the ground but on the second flight it self destructed in flight. They have come a long way. If it wasn't for ARFs almost none of the guys I fly with would be flying at all.
I'm just heading out now to the wood shop to start cutting a couple of kits. The Bridi Dirty Birdi. It has a heavy parts count and I see no way to even try to lump it in with an ARF in any way. I fail to understand that statement unless you mean when it's near completion and I glue in the stabs like I would an ARF??
Old 01-29-2015, 10:22 AM
  #254  
geoardsog5
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Leroy, that is a nice airplane painting stand you got there!
Old 01-29-2015, 10:30 AM
  #255  
mike1974
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Originally Posted by Johnny greeko
Wow Mike you actually scrounged $50.00 to get a PT 40 on your 40th bday, lol thought it was funny, im new in here but i just wanted to set some humour ...dont scold me
Ha ha! I will have to re-read what I typed, but i'm guessing I forgot to put a "14" in there.
Old 01-29-2015, 11:08 AM
  #256  
joebahl
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OK i will admit to owning two arfs but the first one i won at a raffle and i had a choice of what to get free . There was no glue left or sand paper so i took the multiplex funcub. After putting it together it was very fun to fly and very light with no bad habbits.,Then i was at the HS and a multiplex Acromaster was on the discount table for 70 bucks and i tried to walk away lol but went back and bought it. It can hover on 4-cell lipos and knife edges well ,making me look good with my old shaky hands. lol Yep probobly the only two arfs i will ever own but they do fly real well. joe
Old 01-29-2015, 01:17 PM
  #257  
essyou35
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What you call a kit today your grandpa called an arf. its all relative.

Today an ARF is where everything is installed, all you need is a batter and xmitter.
if it comes with that, its RTF.

If you have to install servos and motors, that is a kit. (Relative to today)
Old 01-29-2015, 01:50 PM
  #258  
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Well I would disagree a bit but not to get the ARF bashing going.
I think anything that is pre-fabricated is an ARF. If the model comes pre-built and covered it is an ARF. I hate popping into a thread where someone post (P-51 Build Thread) for example to see someone is assembling an ARF. Sorry but assembly is not building. I enjoy browsing build threads and watching what people create while building. Most kit/plans builders after they have a few kits under their belt start to modify and change the kits to suit their needs. Brings out the creative side in people.
I have no issue with ARF's. they have their place and I own a couple. I did not build them I assembled them. I assemble and fly them but I in no way do I get the same amount of satisfaction from owning and flying an ARF as I get from my kit or plans built planes. Now I will throw the ARF around and fly it like I stole it and will do things I don't dare attempt with nice scale model, they do have their place. The only thing I am risking is $$$ not hundreds of hours of work.
Some high end ARF's require a good bit of skill to complete and to finish. These are well and good but still do not require the skill or effort that a full blown build requires.
Just my .02
Anthony
Old 01-29-2015, 02:13 PM
  #259  
I-fly-any-and-all
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Waco, I agree im not bashing arf's either but I do enjoy kit building. For example, imagine if royal products was still in business and had there 77 & 3/4 inch b-17 as an ARF. oops my os .20 four strokes stalled/ran out of fuel mid flight and down she goes! where do I get templates to rebuild my beautiful plane as it is only an arf!!! Not to worry as this has yet to happen but everyone one knew royal made kits, and provided templates on their blue prints and only made 2 or 3 arfs but were in a very limited production.

got her already built, will be fitting retracts soon and flaps. I do have an in box kit as a spare, she needs bit of a reworking I agree and has some hangar rash to wing. But couldn't pass on it with all servo's and 4 new never run royal .25's for $250!

not flying with two strokes, I have carefully watched ebay and purchased 5, yes 5 os .20 four strokes, one is a spare.
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:37 PM
  #260  
Gray Beard
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I did have a site that sold most of the old Royal kit plans and templates but lost it when the puter crashed. I have a couple on file but not the 17.
Old 01-29-2015, 02:56 PM
  #261  
Leroy Gardner
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I half to side with WacoNut on what constitutes a builder, it's a guy/girl that's builds a complete plane from a kit or set of plans and provides all the required other equipment needed to go fly it. An ARF is a plane that has already been built and requires some finish assembly as well as providing other equipment to install to make it air worthy, that is not building, that is assembly. Also at this point even if it is altered it is only altered not built. Given todays level of education it's easy to see why some think they are building an ARF not assembling it.

Likely rile someone up, so be it.
Old 01-29-2015, 03:05 PM
  #262  
cubcrasher
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Talk about ARF bashing, I bashed one on January 1st. It sounded like a wood chipper going through the trees. It was a
Sky Raider Mach 2. Not a bad little plane. I'll find it harder to put together an ARF than a kit plane, something about
em just ain't kosher.
Old 01-29-2015, 03:13 PM
  #263  
I-fly-any-and-all
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Originally Posted by Gray Beard
I did have a site that sold most of the old Royal kit plans and templates but lost it when the puter crashed. I have a couple on file but not the 17.
www.outerzone.co.uk has royal kit plans so does
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_plans/index.php
Old 01-29-2015, 06:05 PM
  #264  
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So thats what the Royal 17 looks like built. Friend has one partially built, with a religious wing.
Old 01-29-2015, 06:19 PM
  #265  
HoundDog
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
I half to side with WacoNut on what constitutes a builder, it's a guy/girl that's builds a complete plane from a kit or set of plans and provides all the required other equipment needed to go fly it. An ARF is a plane that has already been built and requires some finish assembly as well as providing other equipment to install to make it air worthy, that is not building, that is assembly. Also at this point even if it is altered it is only altered not built. Given todays level of education it's easy to see why some think they are building an ARF not assembling it.

Likely rile someone up, so be it.
300 thousand EAA members and 10% don't even to attempt to build their own air craft ... that doesn't make any less an EAA'er ... Just as it doesn't make U any better AMA member because U build in stead of flying.
Old 01-29-2015, 06:20 PM
  #266  
HoundDog
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
I half to side with WacoNut on what constitutes a builder, it's a guy/girl that's builds a complete plane from a kit or set of plans and provides all the required other equipment needed to go fly it. An ARF is a plane that has already been built and requires some finish assembly as well as providing other equipment to install to make it air worthy, that is not building, that is assembly. Also at this point even if it is altered it is only altered not built. Given todays level of education it's easy to see why some think they are building an ARF not assembling it.

Likely rile someone up, so be it.
300 thousand EAA members and 99% don't even to attempt to build their own air craft ... that doesn't make any less an EAA'er ... Just as it doesn't make U any better AMA member because some build in stead of flying.
Old 01-29-2015, 11:58 PM
  #267  
Cambria Funfighters
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Hi all, It's an interesting thread you've started and one I wish more people would discuss. ARTF is a useful thing to have but it's not done the kit industry any favours. If you look at kit prices you could be forgiven for saying they are very expensive compared to a model that is already built. What people are forgetting though is that the pleasure is actually in the building, The anticipation of thinking will it fly? (of course if you followed the plan, it will) Then spending time trimming the model to suit perfectly, your style of flying. Then after all this you have an aeroplane that gives you pride. It also teaches you some valuable skills and passing on this knowledge also gives pleasure.

Daren.
www.funfighters.co.uk
Old 01-30-2015, 04:41 AM
  #268  
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I have to agree with Anthony, that "assembly is not building." ARFs have their place but to compare "assembling" an ARF to "building" a kit is sort of ignorant of what's involved in kit building, IMHO. I've also found that a kit built plane flies differently than an ARF. It has something to do with the pride of craftsmanship and sometimes the wonder that the darn thing flies at all. That simply can't be matched with an ARF. Enough bashing now, great thread.
Leroy, I never get tired of seeing that Spacewalker of yours, it's just a very well executed class act!
Old 01-30-2015, 05:33 AM
  #269  
essyou35
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Do you guys consider the yellow aircraft f-18 to be a kit? I have to glue in the formers but honestly I consider it an ARF. I know a couple that claim to be builders because they built yellow aircrafts but the only difference between the yellows and many of my arfs is gluing in the formers. I glass wings, and have glued scratch build formers. I have painted and recovered etc.

Do you guys have a good resource for kits? I'd love to build a warbird but not a mustang. A big p47 or something like that would be cool I just don't know where to get them anymore.

BTW if your grandpa had internet, he would have thread on this forum back then calling your kits arfs, and how you're not a real builder unless you use a plan only or no plan. A real builder would go cut down balsa plants and hand carve everything Pre cut formers and preassembled wood is an arf, says your grandpa.
Old 01-30-2015, 05:34 AM
  #270  
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To me it's pretty obvious that taking pre-assembled and finished components and assembling them isn't building. And that's fine for those who don't want to, but there's building and then there's BUILDING. And assembling is not building, in any way, shape, or form.

Just my view.

I'd rather build than buy an ARF. I think the joy and adventure are in the journey, not just arriving at the final destination.
Old 01-30-2015, 05:37 AM
  #271  
essyou35
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So in your view, using precut formers is not a kit? Thatse are prefinished components there buddy.

Originally Posted by TheCalgarian
To me it's pretty obvious that taking pre-assembled and finished components and assembling them isn't building. And that's fine for those who don't want to, but there's building and then there's BUILDING. And assembling is not building, in any way, shape, or form.

Just my view.

I'd rather build than buy an ARF. I think the joy and adventure are in the journey, not just arriving at the final destination.
Old 01-30-2015, 07:36 AM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by essyou35
So in your view, using precut formers is not a kit? Thatse are prefinished components there buddy.
Pre-cut formers, wing ribs too, that need to be sanded and glued is a kit. Looking for a precise definition? You're not going to getg it, at least from me. It's like former US Attorney genral Ed Meese said about pornography: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

Same with kits and ARFs. And, like I said, just my thoughts, Nobody's forcing anyone to agree.
Old 01-30-2015, 07:48 AM
  #273  
I-fly-any-and-all
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Originally Posted by acdii
So thats what the Royal 17 looks like built. Friend has one partially built, with a religious wing.
what do you mean by "religious wing?" never heard of that term....
Old 01-30-2015, 08:18 AM
  #274  
Bax
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Originally Posted by essyou35
Do you guys have a good resource for kits? I'd love to build a warbird but not a mustang. A big p47 or something like that would be cool I just don't know where to get them anymore.
Top Flite makes a Giant P-47 full kit:

TOPA0415 P-47D THUNDERBOLT GIANT SCALE

Order through your favorite hobby retailer.
Old 01-30-2015, 08:36 AM
  #275  
HoundDog
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Originally Posted by essyou35
So in your view, using precut formers is not a kit? Thatse are prefinished components there buddy.
Originally Posted by essyou35
Do you guys have a good resource for kits? I'd love to build a warbird but not a mustang. A big p47 or something like that would be cool I just don't know where to get them anymore.





Try this URL here on RCU Top Flite P-47D Thunderbolt - 2.1 (Kit)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=900303

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