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Where have all the builders gone

Old 01-30-2015, 09:12 AM
  #276  
Stikum
 
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Originally Posted by I-fly-any-and-all
what do you mean by "religious wing?" never heard of that term....
God, I hope this works!
Old 01-30-2015, 10:23 AM
  #277  
Leroy Gardner
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Originally Posted by yel914
I have to agree with Anthony, that "assembly is not building." ARFs have their place but to compare "assembling" an ARF to "building" a kit is sort of ignorant of what's involved in kit building, IMHO. I've also found that a kit built plane flies differently than an ARF. It has something to do with the pride of craftsmanship and sometimes the wonder that the darn thing flies at all. That simply can't be matched with an ARF. Enough bashing now, great thread.
Leroy, I never get tired of seeing that Spacewalker of yours, it's just a very well executed class act!
Thank you kindly for that last statement yel914. Really building a plane is as much a chance to show off your learned skills and the pride you have in what you do. There is a lot of your self that goes into building anything not just a hobby item, just the satisfaction of completing a sometimes complex build from a box of sticks with your own hands has surprised even me at what I just did, there is something special about that and even the joy you hear and see from others has a value also. It's not an ego thing to me but it is a big pride thing, no doubt about it.

It's sad to see much of what man once had in larger numbers and surprises me what he is replacing it with, the fabric that once bound this country together is rotting like the fabric of a very old airplane kept outside.

Leroy
Old 01-30-2015, 10:28 AM
  #278  
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I built and flown the top flight AT-6 ,90 os four cycle ,fowler flaps and home made my own landing gear with spring loaded shocks. Like alot of top flight kits it was on the heavy side even after i tried to build it light along the way. Alot of free plan sites poping up so i try and collect as many as i can . I wont get drawn into weather putting a ARF is building or a guy having his EAA plane built by others is kinda maybe the same stupid thing. I steamed and built alot of bass wood ribs on a home made jig for a real home built plane helping out a couple rc friends that were building their own plane and its alot of work just doing that let alone the whole plane. Just try building a warbird from a top flight kit then asembling a ARF one the same size and see witch one is easyer,lol BTW when you show up to a big warbird meet and pull out your plastic looking ARF warbird and wonder why guys are snikkering dont say i did not warn ya, lol joe

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Old 01-30-2015, 11:24 AM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
Thank you kindly for that last statement yel914. Really building a plane is as much a chance to show off your learned skills and the pride you have in what you do. There is a lot of your self that goes into building anything not just a hobby item, just the satisfaction of completing a sometimes complex build from a box of sticks with your own hands has surprised even me at what I just did, there is something special about that and even the joy you hear and see from others has a value also. It's not an ego thing to me but it is a big pride thing, no doubt about it.

It's sad to see much of what man once had in larger numbers and surprises me what he is replacing it with, the fabric that once bound this country together is rotting like the fabric of a very old airplane kept outside.

Leroy

Nothing lasts for ever .... not even O'l Model air plane builders ... Even the Dinosaurs didn't make it forever ... good thing to, could U see a T-Rex going after you latest creation? You'd to kick his butt. LOL
Old 01-30-2015, 11:24 AM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by Leroy Gardner
Thank you kindly for that last statement yel914. Really building a plane is as much a chance to show off your learned skills and the pride you have in what you do. There is a lot of your self that goes into building anything not just a hobby item, just the satisfaction of completing a sometimes complex build from a box of sticks with your own hands has surprised even me at what I just did, there is something special about that and even the joy you hear and see from others has a value also. It's not an ego thing to me but it is a big pride thing, no doubt about it.

It's sad to see much of what man once had in larger numbers and surprises me what he is replacing it with, the fabric that once bound this country together is rotting like the fabric of a very old airplane kept outside.

Leroy
You put so much of yourself in a true build, that many times the finished product is so personalized, that you would know who the builder was. (Among your old flier friends) Those days are gone with the ARF, as they all look the same.
Old 01-30-2015, 01:33 PM
  #281  
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I am pretty much a noob and an old fart. While I can see that the ARF has its place, building brings much greater satisfaction in my opinion, and no one else will have one like it. As I close in on completing my first build I have come to realize that I am already hopelessly addicted. Already I have bought a couple more kits & engines and am interested in and reading about plan & scratch building. You all are a bad influence...err....I mean an inspiration.
Old 01-30-2015, 01:44 PM
  #282  
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I truly enjoy building from a kit and have built from scratch a A7 corsair. Currently building a 60 size Top Flite Corsair and when I finish it I am going to build the larger 1/5 size TF Coresair... Have fun guys... Will try to post pics..
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Old 01-30-2015, 02:25 PM
  #283  
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True builders will build one way or another.
I am finding it harder to get a kit that that just makes me say I got to have it. There are some planes I would like to have but there are just too many of them out there. I have built some nice big kits and I have built from plans. The plans route was a much more satisfying build and was a true PITA due to correcting all the errors on the plans. The since of accomplishment is much higher. A plans built plane is like a blank canvas. Kits can be modified but there just seems to be more of a challenge and mystery surrounding a plans built plane.
My latest build I am getting ready to start is a Hostetler Plans Stinson Reliant SR-10 in 1/4 scale. I am cheating a bit and buying a full laser cut kit cut to the plans but I already see a lot of areas where I am not going to follow the plans and modify things to be more scale. I am sure I will find many more modifications as I go along. I see countless hours of pure pleasure in my future.
Later!!
Anthony
Old 01-30-2015, 03:08 PM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by I-fly-any-and-all
what do you mean by "religious wing?" never heard of that term....
It has Holes in it, so the wing is Holy!


Here is my latest creation being used to mock up my current build.



Thats my completed Piper Cub from SIG, the wing is the Clipped wing that I am going to use as the bottom wing to make a Biper Cub from the same SIG kit. I loved building that kit, so it was a no brainer to get another one and bash a one off Bi Plane Cub.

Did someone say 60 Corsair? My other current build




Old 01-30-2015, 03:10 PM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by Spiritwind
I truly enjoy building from a kit and have built from scratch a A7 corsair. Currently building a 60 size Top Flite Corsair and when I finish it I am going to build the larger 1/5 size TF Coresair... Have fun guys... Will try to post pics..
I have the 1/5th kit in the box. Picked it up from a fellow club member, who only does ARF's now. How did the build go on the .60 size? A 1/5th scale WW2 bird, kit for $200 is a good deal. That plane could be made flyable for under $1000. About where the ARF is now, without engine etc. On a model like that, I do not feel ARFs are cheaper anymore.
Old 01-30-2015, 03:43 PM
  #286  
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A lot of people think it takes a really long time to build. If you plan to build a big scale airplane it will but there are a lot of easy to build kits that don't take that long. A sig 4 star could be built easily and doesn't take very long, maybe a few weekends. There isn't anything wrong with ARF's but anybody that hasn't built something doesn't know what sense of pride you get out of taking some sticks and making it fly.
Old 01-30-2015, 03:56 PM
  #287  
scale only 4 me
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Originally Posted by acdii
It has Holes in it, so the wing is Holy!

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Did someone say 60 Corsair? My other current build
Getting a hang of that latex, huh?, good job
Old 01-30-2015, 04:33 PM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by scale only 4 me
Getting a hang of that latex, huh?, good job
Yep. Thanks, pressure and temp were my enemy on that, once I resolved both it went on nice.

The SIG LT-40 took me 2 weeks to go from box to maiden. I built it on a glass topped artists desk.
Old 01-30-2015, 04:37 PM
  #289  
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Back about 2003 it was decided in a thread there were three types of builders. The purest was the true scratch builder that designed his own plane and drew his own plans then built his plane. Then there came the plans builder that bought the plans, cut his own kit then built the plane. Third in line was the kit builder that bought the pre cut kit that contained all the pre cut parts and he built the plane. Then came the assembler that bought an ARF and assembled the pre made and covered parts. That's about it, can't argue with it at all.
Due to the lack of kits I started building from plans a very long time ago, even if the kit was still cut and sold I preferred to cut my own kit. This is today's project. I made templates for all the parts of the Bridi Dirty Birdy a few years back. A buddy of mine wanted the kit too so I started to cut two kits at the same time. Notice the plans in the first photo, something an ARF assembler will never see when he buys a plane.
The difference with my building is I cut all my own wood too from blocks but I don't always hold to that I will need to buy a couple of sheets for these kits. The second photo is what I use for Bass Wood spars. JUst big planks of Bass Wood that I rip to size as needed. In todays case it is 3/8X 1/2 inch spars but I may use balsa?
Photo 3 shows some of the parts I have already cut. 3/8 balsa parts and all the ribs are 3/32. They are all gang cut because I want all the parts to be the same, 2 of each of the 3/8 parts and 4 each of the ribs.
Photo 4 is showing the templates I drew a few years back knowing I would want to build another of these outstanding planes Mr. Bridi designed. Just bond paper.
In the photos you can also see some of the blocks I cut to size to get the wood needed to cut the parts.
This is building, not assembling. Scratch, plans and kit building has almost nothing in common with ARF assembling. If you think it does then I would advise cleaning the cellophane covering your belly button so you can see where your going. That way you won't miss when reaching for the glue needed to glue on the stab.
There is a little bit of difference. Builders can assemble but most the assemblers I know can't build.
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Old 01-30-2015, 05:35 PM
  #290  
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Is that an ARF manual I spy on your workbench?

What do you use to cut your strips and planks with? I have a 12" bandsaw, but the blade wander, even with a 1/2" blade is too much for a decent cut on anything over an inch thick, or too close to the rip fence to get the blade guide down to the wood. My table saw, even with a thin kerf blade takes out too much material.
Old 01-30-2015, 05:49 PM
  #291  
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Originally Posted by vertical grimmace
I have the 1/5th kit in the box. Picked it up from a fellow club member, who only does ARF's now. How did the build go on the .60 size? A 1/5th scale WW2 bird, kit for $200 is a good deal. That plane could be made flyable for under $1000. About where the ARF is now, without engine etc. On a model like that, I do not feel ARFs are cheaper anymore.
The 60 size build went very good. It only took a couple of months working mostly in the evenings after work. The flaps are the worst part, I still have a lot of fiddling to get them right. I don't trust ARFs, I just feel better knowing how I built it before I put it in the air.
Old 01-30-2015, 06:53 PM
  #292  
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I love to build, have 14 + planes, 2 arf's and 2 foamies, the rest are built. Building is relaxing and you get a certain satisfaction when a project is completed, amplified after the wheels leave the ground for the first time.
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Old 01-30-2015, 07:18 PM
  #293  
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I am a builder, I have about 19 kits I have "hoarded" over the last couple years since they seem to be disappearing. But I have ARF's too, they both have their place. I really don't care what people fly, or how they adapt this hobby to their lifestyle/time schedule, as long as they enjoy R/C flight. But there is no doubt that I take way more pride in a kit/scratch build than an ARF, and to compare the two is ridiculous. I am nervous about my hobby, about the lack of new (young) people that seem to be interested in the hobby (at least around here), especially seeing the demographic of our club meetings. For that reason, I am happy if someone takes a chance on the hobby, with or without an ARF. No haters here. I build slower than I used to, because of time, and my interest in other family activities (camping, motorcycling, shooting, ATV'ing, etc..). So sometimes I just need to get some stuff in the air, without the big time commitment. It just depends. I do feel bad for the folks that have never felt the joy & the pride of building your own model from the ground up, as someone else mentioned, "seeing the wheels leave the ground". But however thy get there.....its good with me. Just my $0.02
Old 01-30-2015, 07:23 PM
  #294  
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[QUOTE=Gray Beard;

There is a little bit of difference. Builders can assemble but most the assemblers I know can't build.[/QUOTE]

There is no truer statement than this... Also Builders will usually know the history of the plane that he is building. They know the plane on an almost intimate level. They live the build piece by piece.
Old 01-30-2015, 07:46 PM
  #295  
Gray Beard
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Originally Posted by acdii
Is that an ARF manual I spy on your workbench?

What do you use to cut your strips and planks with? I have a 12" bandsaw, but the blade wander, even with a 1/2" blade is too much for a decent cut on anything over an inch thick, or too close to the rip fence to get the blade guide down to the wood. My table saw, even with a thin kerf blade takes out too much material.
That is a 15 year old instruction manual for an Up-Roar. You will see the plane in Rick Stubbs thread on the Tower Up-Roar. The kit is only $50.00 and was on sale for $40.00 but I have built so many of them after the second kit I started cutting my own kits.
Here is a photo of the saw used for ripping hardwoods. We just call it the recut saw but I think it is a Laguna saw? {spelling} We have a lot of blades for it but I usually use a one inch. I use the band saw for ripping balsa but we have a good blade selection for it too. Today I just ripped 1/8 sheets then ran it through the micro over head sander to bring it down to 3/32, I sand both sides to remove any saw marks. The trick is to just make sure the fence and blade are squared up so you don't cut at an angle.
This wood shop has just about anything you would ever need to make pretty much anything you would want.They have a very good web site too. Some of the most spectacular items come off of the lathes, we have three of those and some master turners. Just the time spent putting together the segmented bowls before turning is something to see. We have made up jigs just for cutting all the little parts then it can take weeks putting the parts together before they go onto the lathe.
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:09 PM
  #296  
Gray Beard
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The lady used the recut saw to get the wood to size for the inlays on a cutting board she is making. The same fellow that was cutting the wood on the recut is putting it through the micro over head sander. It removes wood in thousandths of an inch.
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Old 01-30-2015, 10:24 PM
  #297  
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Another good method for cutting balsa stock is a 10" table saw with a thin kerf paneling blade.
I have used this in the past to cut my own stick stock from sheet stock and it works very well. I was chatting with Wendell Hostetler and this is how he cuts all of his own wood for building his prototypes from his plans. Buys 3x4 block stock and cuts what he needs.
Old 01-30-2015, 10:53 PM
  #298  
vertical grimmace
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Originally Posted by Spiritwind
The 60 size build went very good. It only took a couple of months working mostly in the evenings after work. The flaps are the worst part, I still have a lot of fiddling to get them right. I don't trust ARFs, I just feel better knowing how I built it before I put it in the air.
Not sure when I will get to the Corsair. I need to finish a Ziroli Stuka, and then I may do the Corsair. I have a kit for a 1/5th scale HE 100D, and also a 1/5th scale 190 D 9. Then, there is a good possibility I will get distracted by something else! I really wanna do a large rwin warbird. The Corsair has always been a favorite of mine though.
Old 01-30-2015, 11:10 PM
  #299  
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Cool. Now that is a work site, so let's get to it
Old 01-31-2015, 06:08 AM
  #300  
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[QUOTE=Gray Beard;11973246]Back about 2003 it was decided in a thread there were three types of builders. The purest was the true scratch builder that designed his own plane and drew his own plans then built his plane. Then there came the plans builder that bought the plans, cut his own kit then built the plane. Third in line was the kit builder that bought the pre cut kit that contained all the pre cut parts and he built the plane. Then came the assembler that bought an ARF and assembled the pre made and covered parts. That's about it, can't argue with it at all.
Gray O'L boy U for got about the rest of us ... the guy that buys a compleatly already built flight proven plane ... CA hates me and I have little love for it ... just use it to do a little repair now and then ... Besides building is a private by Your self thing and I like the commendatory at the field ... Beats sitting in my Cave smelling Poxy fumes. Thank God for Swap meets and auction and RCU. Don't begrudge the guy that likes to build but then they shouldn't feel the rest of us are inferior to them.

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