Where have all the builders gone
01-31-2015, 07:43 AM
#304
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Here are some photos of a project I have been working on since late September. It is a 1/3 scale Taylorcraft. It is by far the most ambitious project I ever ever attempted. It is built from plans using a short kit from JTEC Radiowave. No instructions, just a lot of help and guidance from others who have built it. 10 foot wingspan, DA100 for power.
01-31-2015, 07:43 AM
#305
Now as a builder I take a lot of pride in my planes that I have built and I put an extreme amount of time and effort into them. I am proud to pull them out of the trailer and fly at the club field. On the other hand I do not look down upon anyone at the field flying an ARF. I don't think I would be welcome at the club if I did as there are only about 3 or 4 builders in the club out of 38 members. I think a lot of it is some guys feel inferior not the other way around.
I am getting ready to buy my 7yr old grandson an ARF. He soloed at 5yrs old and has 2 full flying seasons under his belt and has yet to crash a plane. I still don't think he is quite ready to help build yet and or appreciate the amount of work that goes into a build for me to just hand one over.
Building is a totally separate part of the hobby from flying. some participate some do not. I do feel that everyone should at least give it a try once if possible. It can be a very relaxing and rewarding experience.
A few pics of labors of love.
01-31-2015, 08:16 AM
#307
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The title of the thread is " Where have all the builders gone" , some have tried to turn it into an ARF bash but for the most part it has stayed civil. I think it is fair to say most R/C flyers these day fly ARF's. Not a thing wrong with it IMO. Like I have stated before I own a couple.
Now as a builder I take a lot of pride in my planes that I have built and I put an extreme amount of time and effort into them. I am proud to pull them out of the trailer and fly at the club field. On the other hand I do not look down upon anyone at the field flying an ARF. I don't think I would be welcome at the club if I did as there are only about 3 or 4 builders in the club out of 38 members. I think a lot of it is some guys feel inferior not the other way around.
I am getting ready to buy my 7yr old grandson an ARF. He soloed at 5yrs old and has 2 full flying seasons under his belt and has yet to crash a plane. I still don't think he is quite ready to help build yet and or appreciate the amount of work that goes into a build for me to just hand one over.
Building is a totally separate part of the hobby from flying. some participate some do not. I do feel that everyone should at least give it a try once if possible. It can be a very relaxing and rewarding experience.
A few pics of labors of love.
Now as a builder I take a lot of pride in my planes that I have built and I put an extreme amount of time and effort into them. I am proud to pull them out of the trailer and fly at the club field. On the other hand I do not look down upon anyone at the field flying an ARF. I don't think I would be welcome at the club if I did as there are only about 3 or 4 builders in the club out of 38 members. I think a lot of it is some guys feel inferior not the other way around.
I am getting ready to buy my 7yr old grandson an ARF. He soloed at 5yrs old and has 2 full flying seasons under his belt and has yet to crash a plane. I still don't think he is quite ready to help build yet and or appreciate the amount of work that goes into a build for me to just hand one over.
Building is a totally separate part of the hobby from flying. some participate some do not. I do feel that everyone should at least give it a try once if possible. It can be a very relaxing and rewarding experience.
A few pics of labors of love.
01-31-2015, 08:27 AM
#309
Steve,
That is a great looking little WACO you have there, Dumas kit I presume?
Later!!
Anthony
01-31-2015, 08:59 AM
#310
Here are some photos of a project I have been working on since late September. It is a 1/3 scale Taylorcraft. It is by far the most ambitious project I ever ever attempted. It is built from plans using a short kit from JTEC Radiowave. No instructions, just a lot of help and guidance from others who have built it. 10 foot wingspan, DA100 for power.
Looking great!
I think that you bring up a point that is overlooked in these discussions. Tackling an ambitious project. Pushing yourself. Doing something that sets you up to possibly fail. This is where the high reward achieved. Nothing better than pushing yourself, and having it be a success. I am in the middle of just such a project myself. It is what makes the hobby exciting for me. Keep up the good work! And good luck.
01-31-2015, 09:14 AM
#311
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Back to the original question. Traditionally kits ( which most would build) are full of inacuracies in the plan and the instructions, and because of the tiny percentages of profit most manufacturers recoil at the prospect of re drawing plans etc. Also rewriting instructions is difficult to do insuch a way that people get it. I am currently in the middle of this process and find myselfrereading most of it four or five times before being satisfied. This can only be done well by building at the same time as is extremely time consuming.
Combine all this with the new accurately made ARTF kits and the customer will find a reason to go ARTF.
What will keep the manufacturers of kits going is more education into building. Which will lead to more kits being sold. If the ARTF flyers are alienated by builders this will never happen. At present I expect to sell 100 kits per year. That won't feed a family so I must be doing it for the love of it. How about we start a forum on educating builders rather than asking why it doesn't happen? Not so long ago all the magazines had articles to help the newby builder and a section on hints and tips.. This doesnt happen anymore so they get no encouragement. Also the more impressive the models we build, the more daunting the prospect becomes. What do you think?
Combine all this with the new accurately made ARTF kits and the customer will find a reason to go ARTF.
What will keep the manufacturers of kits going is more education into building. Which will lead to more kits being sold. If the ARTF flyers are alienated by builders this will never happen. At present I expect to sell 100 kits per year. That won't feed a family so I must be doing it for the love of it. How about we start a forum on educating builders rather than asking why it doesn't happen? Not so long ago all the magazines had articles to help the newby builder and a section on hints and tips.. This doesnt happen anymore so they get no encouragement. Also the more impressive the models we build, the more daunting the prospect becomes. What do you think?
01-31-2015, 09:20 AM
#312
The title of the thread is " Where have all the builders gone" , some have tried to turn it into an ARF bash but for the most part it has stayed civil. I think it is fair to say most R/C flyers these day fly ARF's. Not a thing wrong with it IMO. Like I have stated before I own a couple.
Now as a builder I take a lot of pride in my planes that I have built and I put an extreme amount of time and effort into them. I am proud to pull them out of the trailer and fly at the club field. On the other hand I do not look down upon anyone at the field flying an ARF. I don't think I would be welcome at the club if I did as there are only about 3 or 4 builders in the club out of 38 members. I think a lot of it is some guys feel inferior not the other way around.
I am getting ready to buy my 7yr old grandson an ARF. He soloed at 5yrs old and has 2 full flying seasons under his belt and has yet to crash a plane. I still don't think he is quite ready to help build yet and or appreciate the amount of work that goes into a build for me to just hand one over.
Building is a totally separate part of the hobby from flying. some participate some do not. I do feel that everyone should at least give it a try once if possible. It can be a very relaxing and rewarding experience.
A few pics of labors of love.
Now as a builder I take a lot of pride in my planes that I have built and I put an extreme amount of time and effort into them. I am proud to pull them out of the trailer and fly at the club field. On the other hand I do not look down upon anyone at the field flying an ARF. I don't think I would be welcome at the club if I did as there are only about 3 or 4 builders in the club out of 38 members. I think a lot of it is some guys feel inferior not the other way around.
I am getting ready to buy my 7yr old grandson an ARF. He soloed at 5yrs old and has 2 full flying seasons under his belt and has yet to crash a plane. I still don't think he is quite ready to help build yet and or appreciate the amount of work that goes into a build for me to just hand one over.
Building is a totally separate part of the hobby from flying. some participate some do not. I do feel that everyone should at least give it a try once if possible. It can be a very relaxing and rewarding experience.
A few pics of labors of love.
I think a "live and let live" attitude helps to keep the threads from getting ugly on this issue. Other than less kits being available, because less are being sold, it does not effect me at all how fellow modelers acquire the planes they fly. I think that we have plenty of build options now. Granted, the Tower hobbies catalog is not filled with .40-.60 sized kits like it was in the 1980's, but that is not what most of us are flying now anyway. Laser cutting, kit cutters, plans, etc will keep me busy building for a long time. So the threats of disappearing kits does not worry me. Look at Balsa USA. They are offering wonderful kits, and continue to expand their line. I have an optimistic vision of the future concerning building. Not so sure about our ability to fly them in the future though. But that is a discussion being hotly debated in another part of this site. : )
01-31-2015, 09:41 AM
#313
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Well HD, the procurer of used planes never came up in the topic of builders but that was around 03 so we weren't quite as up on such things back then. It was a less enlightened world. I'm thinking that buyers would also fall outside of the builders topic just like assemblers did.
If you are in need of a couple new planes then please feel free to slide on over to this side of the fence, I have a couple new planes just waiting for you to buy. These haven't flown yet but I could take you out for the maidens just to flight prove them for you. You could even tell all your friends you built them yourself so you could join a builders thread.
Here is a question to all the assemblers and buyers, well, there aren't too many buyers but it seems I have just met one. Why will someone spend a boat load of money on an ARF made in China but will never buy a plane that a local built, if they do make an offer it is usually about 1/4 of the price they would pay for the same plane if it was an ARF?? This topic has come up at the field more then once but even the ARF folks {most of the people at the field} don't have an answer.
Not too many years ago I kept myself in the hobby by building for others. It's been 6 years sense I have been asked to build a plane for anyone and at that time I was too busy to build the kit for the fellow and had to turn him down.
9 years ago I was also assembling ARFs for people as well as building kits. I have only built two planes from plans for anyone and those were gifts.
OH, I really do have two brand new planes I will sell and they are complete except for the RX.
What a deal!!!! And Hound Dog is just down the raod a piece from me.
If you are in need of a couple new planes then please feel free to slide on over to this side of the fence, I have a couple new planes just waiting for you to buy. These haven't flown yet but I could take you out for the maidens just to flight prove them for you. You could even tell all your friends you built them yourself so you could join a builders thread.
Here is a question to all the assemblers and buyers, well, there aren't too many buyers but it seems I have just met one. Why will someone spend a boat load of money on an ARF made in China but will never buy a plane that a local built, if they do make an offer it is usually about 1/4 of the price they would pay for the same plane if it was an ARF?? This topic has come up at the field more then once but even the ARF folks {most of the people at the field} don't have an answer.
Not too many years ago I kept myself in the hobby by building for others. It's been 6 years sense I have been asked to build a plane for anyone and at that time I was too busy to build the kit for the fellow and had to turn him down.
9 years ago I was also assembling ARFs for people as well as building kits. I have only built two planes from plans for anyone and those were gifts.
OH, I really do have two brand new planes I will sell and they are complete except for the RX.
What a deal!!!! And Hound Dog is just down the raod a piece from me.
01-31-2015, 10:00 AM
#314
[QUOTE=Leroy Gardner; An ARF is a plane that has already been built and requires some finish assembly as well as providing other equipment to install to make it air worthy, that is not building, that is assembly. Also at this point even if it is altered it is only altered not built. Given todays level of education it's easy to see why some think they are building an ARF not assembling it.
Likely rile someone up, so be it.[/QUOTE]
Does someone that says there are building an ARF somehow offend you? You have to attack their level of education (by the way, in your comment, the correct word is "I have to side" not "half"
)?
Why do some people get so hung up terminology. Build, assemble, so what - whichever you enjoy, just do it. Builders build because of the satisfaction they derive from making it themselves. ARF "assemblers" mostly enjoy flying,. So maybe I'll be at the field flying while you're at home building, and that is perfectly okay! Do what you enjoy, but don't look down at others because they enjoy the hobby in a different way.
I'm putting up a shed. Comes as a "kit". A pile of 2X4s and plywood. Have to cut everything to size. Guess what. It comes with "ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS"! So, my question, if your are putting together a "laser cut" kit, are you building or assembling, and what difference does it make. The definitions are interchangeable.
Go have fun!!
By the way, some dictionary definitions for you:
Build: Verb, 1: construct (something, typically something large) by putting parts or material together over a period of time: synonyms:construct · erect · put up ·assemble· make · form · create
·
Assemble: Verb, 1: to fit together the separate component parts of (a machine or other object):synonyms: construct ·build · fabricate · manufacture · erect · set up
Likely rile someone up, so be it.[/QUOTE]
Does someone that says there are building an ARF somehow offend you? You have to attack their level of education (by the way, in your comment, the correct word is "I have to side" not "half"
)?Why do some people get so hung up terminology. Build, assemble, so what - whichever you enjoy, just do it. Builders build because of the satisfaction they derive from making it themselves. ARF "assemblers" mostly enjoy flying,. So maybe I'll be at the field flying while you're at home building, and that is perfectly okay! Do what you enjoy, but don't look down at others because they enjoy the hobby in a different way.
I'm putting up a shed. Comes as a "kit". A pile of 2X4s and plywood. Have to cut everything to size. Guess what. It comes with "ASSEMBLY INSTRUCTIONS"! So, my question, if your are putting together a "laser cut" kit, are you building or assembling, and what difference does it make. The definitions are interchangeable.
Go have fun!!
By the way, some dictionary definitions for you:
Build: Verb, 1: construct (something, typically something large) by putting parts or material together over a period of time: synonyms:construct · erect · put up ·assemble· make · form · create
·
Assemble: Verb, 1: to fit together the separate component parts of (a machine or other object):synonyms: construct ·build · fabricate · manufacture · erect · set up
01-31-2015, 10:30 AM
#315
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This is a great post. You are so right about how this is 2 hobbies. My dad built many, many planes, but never flew them. From CL, to stick and tissue static, mostly. Concerning the question "Where have the builders gone", the ARF has a lot to do with it, so it is impossible to separate ARF's from the building discussion.
I think a "live and let live" attitude helps to keep the threads from getting ugly on this issue. Other than less kits being available, because less are being sold, it does not effect me at all how fellow modelers acquire the planes they fly. I think that we have plenty of build options now. Granted, the Tower hobbies catalog is not filled with .40-.60 sized kits like it was in the 1980's, but that is not what most of us are flying now anyway. Laser cutting, kit cutters, plans, etc will keep me busy building for a long time. So the threats of disappearing kits does not worry me. Look at Balsa USA. They are offering wonderful kits, and continue to expand their line. I have an optimistic vision of the future concerning building. Not so sure about our ability to fly them in the future though. But that is a discussion being hotly debated in another part of this site. : )
I think a "live and let live" attitude helps to keep the threads from getting ugly on this issue. Other than less kits being available, because less are being sold, it does not effect me at all how fellow modelers acquire the planes they fly. I think that we have plenty of build options now. Granted, the Tower hobbies catalog is not filled with .40-.60 sized kits like it was in the 1980's, but that is not what most of us are flying now anyway. Laser cutting, kit cutters, plans, etc will keep me busy building for a long time. So the threats of disappearing kits does not worry me. Look at Balsa USA. They are offering wonderful kits, and continue to expand their line. I have an optimistic vision of the future concerning building. Not so sure about our ability to fly them in the future though. But that is a discussion being hotly debated in another part of this site. : )
Those are two really fantastic looking planes you are showing us.
01-31-2015, 10:50 AM
#316
Thanks Gray.
I have had a lot of fun with the BUSA kits. And yes, the tripes are tough on the ground. The bigger they are though, the less of a problem the ground handling is. I have been asked to build a tripe for someone, but as you said, I do not have time, as I have my own builds I am trying to complete, and I work a ton of hours with my regular job.
If you do decide to build the Fokker DVII, you will love it as it is a *****cat on the ground. In fact, I have scored perfect 10 landings with it in scale competitions. It is one of the greatest planes I have ever had. It is a little large though, So I am sure you will have to tear it down to fit in your van.
Interesting, the day I brought out the Fokker DVII for the maiden, a fellow club member asked me where I had bought the ARF! I had been working on that plane for 1.5 years. I basically asked him the same question, Where are you going to just buy a model like this? He apologized.
I have had a lot of fun with the BUSA kits. And yes, the tripes are tough on the ground. The bigger they are though, the less of a problem the ground handling is. I have been asked to build a tripe for someone, but as you said, I do not have time, as I have my own builds I am trying to complete, and I work a ton of hours with my regular job.
If you do decide to build the Fokker DVII, you will love it as it is a *****cat on the ground. In fact, I have scored perfect 10 landings with it in scale competitions. It is one of the greatest planes I have ever had. It is a little large though, So I am sure you will have to tear it down to fit in your van.
Interesting, the day I brought out the Fokker DVII for the maiden, a fellow club member asked me where I had bought the ARF! I had been working on that plane for 1.5 years. I basically asked him the same question, Where are you going to just buy a model like this? He apologized.
01-31-2015, 11:09 AM
#317
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Hi Steve: No the decals were supplied by Bad Brad Graphics. Here is a link to the entire build thread for mine and others as well.
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ht=taylorcraft
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ht=taylorcraft
01-31-2015, 11:16 AM
#318
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Looking great!
I think that you bring up a point that is overlooked in these discussions. Tackling an ambitious project. Pushing yourself. Doing something that sets you up to possibly fail. This is where the high reward achieved. Nothing better than pushing yourself, and having it be a success. I am in the middle of just such a project myself. It is what makes the hobby exciting for me. Keep up the good work! And good luck.
I think that you bring up a point that is overlooked in these discussions. Tackling an ambitious project. Pushing yourself. Doing something that sets you up to possibly fail. This is where the high reward achieved. Nothing better than pushing yourself, and having it be a success. I am in the middle of just such a project myself. It is what makes the hobby exciting for me. Keep up the good work! And good luck.
I am in no hurry whatsoever and my only focus is to "do it right". I certainly do not look down upon anyone who flys ARF's. If you look at the photos you will see several hanging on the walls of my workshop. I will also say that for me at least, there is no thrill quite like the maiden flight of an airplane you build from a box of sticks.
It there seems to be a fair amount of interest here on RCU so I will continue to post updates.
01-31-2015, 11:35 AM
#319
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VG, I have gotten used to the question and with some of the great looking ARFs on the market I have now decided the question is a complement. I'm reverting and started building smaller planes now. I discovered a long time ago, the smaller planes get flown more often.
I was able to get my 68 inch Boeing and my 66 inch Tiger Moth in my van {tight fit} plus all my gear, camping and flying without taking the planes apart when I drove to the different IMAA events. It's just a lot of work.
That,s a much better photo of the Fokker!!
Gene
I was able to get my 68 inch Boeing and my 66 inch Tiger Moth in my van {tight fit} plus all my gear, camping and flying without taking the planes apart when I drove to the different IMAA events. It's just a lot of work.
That,s a much better photo of the Fokker!!
Gene
01-31-2015, 12:08 PM
#322
Vertical is right on the BUSA 1/4 D7. its an amazing kit to build and fly.. I would LOVE to have the 1/3 version but it is simply enormous, and I have nowhere to put the planes I have now.
01-31-2015, 12:29 PM
#324
I picked up a Proctor Sopwith 1/2 strutter kit off of craiglist a couple weeks ago for 30 dollars new in the box . Guy said his son had gotten it for X-mass and never tried to build it. Since it was not my cup of tea i bought it at 1 pm in the afternoon and sold it at 2 the same day for 175 . Bought more glue and balsa to stock up for different builds
joe http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...r/strutter.htm Got to do what you need to do hiding money and balsa from ma ma ! lol joe
joe http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...r/strutter.htm Got to do what you need to do hiding money and balsa from ma ma ! lol joe
Last edited by joebahl; 01-31-2015 at 12:34 PM.
01-31-2015, 12:44 PM
#325
Banned
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I picked up a Proctor Sopwith 1/2 strutter kit off of craiglist a couple weeks ago for 30 dollars new in the box . Guy said his son had gotten it for X-mass and never tried to build it. Since it was not my cup of tea i bought it at 1 pm in the afternoon and sold it at 2 the same day for 175 . Bought more glue and balsa to stock up for different builds joe http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...r/strutter.htm Got to do what you need to do hiding money and balsa from ma ma ! lol joe
joe http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/p...r/strutter.htm Got to do what you need to do hiding money and balsa from ma ma ! lol joeGotta love it...so many little slush funds out there eh?
