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Where have all the builders gone

Old 05-17-2015, 06:41 AM
  #801  
foodstick
 
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It really is funny and sad sometimes when people think thats the nicest arf they have ever seen I have yet to do a rare plane from absolute scratch..
I SO WISH I KNEW 3D DRAFTING...
Old 05-17-2015, 09:32 AM
  #802  
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Originally Posted by foodstick
It really is funny and sad sometimes when people think thats the nicest arf they have ever seen I have yet to do a rare plane from absolute scratch..
I SO WISH I KNEW 3D DRAFTING...
I tried one of the free programs and gave up, it's a huge learning curve and I had problems even drawing a straight line.
Old 05-17-2015, 11:45 AM
  #803  
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It really is funny and sad sometimes when people think thats the nicest arf they have ever seen I have yet to do a rare plane from absolute scratch..
I SO WISH I KNEW 3D DRAFTING...

Foodstick, why should not knowing 3D drafting keep you from scratch building? May's issue of Model Aviation has an article on reading drawings that gives you the basics of plans and that should serve you well as a start, just go for it, you might just surprise yourself.
Old 05-17-2015, 01:28 PM
  #804  
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6 flights in 20 mph cross winds at the AMA hq in muncie
Old 05-17-2015, 02:41 PM
  #805  
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Originally Posted by Duncman
It really is funny and sad sometimes when people think thats the nicest arf they have ever seen I have yet to do a rare plane from absolute scratch..
I SO WISH I KNEW 3D DRAFTING...

Foodstick, why should not knowing 3D drafting keep you from scratch building? May's issue of Model Aviation has an article on reading drawings that gives you the basics of plans and that should serve you well as a start, just go for it, you might just surprise yourself.
I no longer subscribe to any magazines so haven't seen the article but as a kid I had a Vemco drafting machine and designed a lot of my own free flights and control line planes. Today I see no need for it because of all the plans sites but the programs for the 3-D CADs are great, I am just computer stupid. Last year I had the pleasure of building a plane from CAD drawn plans. It was the first time I have ever built anything that every part fit perfectly. If I could I would only build from CAD plans from now on. There are a lot of planes I have built that I wish could be redrawn in CAD!!
I still have my scratch building books too and often refer to them. My days of projecting plans on the wall and tracing them onto paper is also over. It was state of the art at one point though. It's how we enlarged a plane.
Old 05-17-2015, 03:11 PM
  #806  
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Duncman,

I have the fantasy of being able to draw out easy building kits in 3D passing them out on the web, and seeing them built all around the world I could probably manage with a well traced hand drawn set of plans and parts.. eventually...

I just figure it would be nice if they were ready to laser cut and the parts fit perfect.
Old 05-17-2015, 04:08 PM
  #807  
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I've got to believe that building is seeing an upswing, based on what my suppliers are telling me. More building materials, custom cut kits, and plans, are being sold. John R.
Old 05-17-2015, 04:15 PM
  #808  
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I like to build but I like to fly more.
Nowadays there is a huge surplus of really great airplanes for super cheap.
A lot of old timers are passing and this leaves a ton of airplanes to flood the market.
Nothing against builders. I love to build when I have time. However, I would rather be flying.
The surplus is a big plus for me. I have acquired a ton of really amazing aircraft which I did not build. I absolutely love flying them.

I love the hobby. Hope the builders continue. Don't hate me because I would rather fly than build.
I have had the chance to fly hundreds of planes that I would never have had time to build.
Old 05-17-2015, 05:47 PM
  #809  
FlyWheel
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Funny how threads about the diminishing popularity of model building invariably seem to turn into collective build threads
Old 05-17-2015, 06:01 PM
  #810  
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I use graph paper---pen and a calculator---what"s 3 D drawing?
Old 05-17-2015, 06:23 PM
  #811  
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Hey Rick,
I'm with you, for me it's butcher paper, drafting ruler, and a calculator. All I need is a good 3 view with cross sections and I'm set! All three of these are 1/4 scale built from a 3-view, I flew the Fiat CR-32 t a fourth place in Masters at Top Gun this year so I'm thinking that I must be doing something right
Larry B
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:16 PM
  #812  
rick hamel
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Nice job on those planes! It's obvious you enjoy building--------I'm just obnoxious -I say a set of plans is cheating!
Old 05-17-2015, 08:36 PM
  #813  
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Cashpoboy, I don't think anyone will hold your purchase practice against you, heck, I would think we all are guilty of that to some degree.

Let's clarify something here, there is fundamental difference between 3-view and 3-D. 3-view is still a 2 dimensional drawing just looking at a subject from a different perpendicular direction, in other words, still an X - Y axis, no depth. 3-D or 3 Dimensional adds the Z - axis to the equation and gives the 2 - D drawing depth. To give a proper rendition of the subject it often skewed off the horizontal and depicts the unseen side of the subject and essentially removes the need for 3-view. 3-D has been around forever but only has recently become practical with advances in CAD software and CNC software, now a very desirable format.


There is a lot of free CAD software out there and what they want you to do is use the free software and learn it so you will come back and buy the full program (sort of "first one is free" concept). All are simple to use and have good help menus and are more than powerful enough to design anything we need for models, and if you are lucky enough to have someone in your area that has a CNC Laser Cutter you can easily contract him to cut you a short kit off of your freshly drawn CAD plans, sweet. Some may even have upgraded to 3-D, even sweeter. Personally, the only thing between us and Burt Rutan is us.

A quick P.S. on the free software. Whatever program you select please read the fine print, since all are internet downloads some providers want permission on your PC's and/or place cookies, not an NSA thing, just be aware of what you are giving them access to and none I know will follow your banking transactions, these are reputable companies, they just want a market view of your activity.
Old 05-18-2015, 03:18 AM
  #814  
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Carl, What do you mean getting old! I'm only 69, just a kid, I have built since the 1950's when the kits were ink stamped on balsa and you cut everything out and the covering was silkspan.
I have always found time to build because I love the hobby so much, most of the guys in our club who say they build kits are building the ARF's, even though it takes a lot of time to do all the scale detail it still is not what I call building.
People today I think don't want to take the time to get involved in the building process, they want to fly now, not a year later.

I love to build because I like to re-engineer the kits, a lot of them have weak points that can be strengthened, and it feels good to have a model that will hold up to many years of flying without repairs.

I have nothing against people going to this ARF route, it's just not for me.

Ron

I'm building a 1/3 Waco right now and have a Mick Reeves Sopwith Strutter lined up right behind that one.
Old 05-18-2015, 09:02 AM
  #815  
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Originally Posted by Duncman
Cashpoboy, I don't think anyone will hold your purchase practice against you, heck, I would think we all are guilty of that to some degree.

Let's clarify something here, there is fundamental difference between 3-view and 3-D. 3-view is still a 2 dimensional drawing just looking at a subject from a different perpendicular direction, in other words, still an X - Y axis, no depth. 3-D or 3 Dimensional adds the Z - axis to the equation and gives the 2 - D drawing depth. To give a proper rendition of the subject it often skewed off the horizontal and depicts the unseen side of the subject and essentially removes the need for 3-view. 3-D has been around forever but only has recently become practical with advances in CAD software and CNC software, now a very desirable format.


There is a lot of free CAD software out there and what they want you to do is use the free software and learn it so you will come back and buy the full program (sort of "first one is free" concept). All are simple to use and have good help menus and are more than powerful enough to design anything we need for models, and if you are lucky enough to have someone in your area that has a CNC Laser Cutter you can easily contract him to cut you a short kit off of your freshly drawn CAD plans, sweet. Some may even have upgraded to 3-D, even sweeter. Personally, the only thing between us and Burt Rutan is us.

A quick P.S. on the free software. Whatever program you select please read the fine print, since all are internet downloads some providers want permission on your PC's and/or place cookies, not an NSA thing, just be aware of what you are giving them access to and none I know will follow your banking transactions, these are reputable companies, they just want a market view of your activity.
Duncan....

Can you name a few of the CAD programs that are user friendly. I tried to use Compufoil to generate fuselage bulkheads along the entire length of the my fuselage project and is was not exactly what I wanted.
Old 05-18-2015, 04:17 PM
  #816  
genrcflyer
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I have been building and flying r/c airplanes since the 60's. Started with a Sig Kadet and built many kits afterwards. When the kids got bigger and their activities took up more time (and money), I cut way back on my hobby. I started back up again and was blown away by the progress made in the electric motors, the 4 stroke engines and especially, the radios and receivers. I live on my 400 acre farm and have my own 500' grass runway and a 14 acre watershed pond to fly off of. I have trained about 60 pilots over the years and I still get to do the maidens on new aircraft. I only build the ARFs now because I'm 70 years old and don't think I have the time left to do all of the projects I still dream of. I have 19 flyable airplanes, 2 partially built kits to finish and 6 more still in the box. I tried to collect all of the H9 warbirds and have most of them. I have an 85" Yak 54 with a DA 50 on it but have not got around to getting it in the air yet. I spent 3 years building a 90" P 38, even though it was an ARF, it took that long for me to find the engines, and other equipment at the price I was willing to pay. Everything I do is not over half price so I have to be patient. I love to go to the giant scale meets and ALL other events within a few hours driving distance. I do not belong to a club but am an AMA member. It is very hard to find anyone anymore that is capable of building in my area. The electric park flyers are the big thing and most give up after a crash. I am not a builder of kits anymore but I have a lot of experience in rebuilding after a crash and all of my planes fly better afterwards. I had an operation 3 years back that kept me off my feet for about 4 months so I got interested in helicopters. It took me 3 years and a thousand dollars to learn how to hover, all on my own without help. I am an expert rebuilder of helicopters now too! Happy flying everyone!
Old 05-18-2015, 04:23 PM
  #817  
rick hamel
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I used to tell my kids they would have to drop out for a few terms because I needed a new turbine for a project--went over like a nose heavy Cadet
Old 05-19-2015, 04:57 AM
  #818  
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Originally Posted by rick hamel
I used to tell my kids they would have to drop out for a few terms because I needed a new turbine for a project--went over like a nose heavy Cadet
Ungrateful lot aren't they? My kids are just as bad!
Old 05-19-2015, 06:38 AM
  #819  
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Sierratango, I've used 3 programs over the years, AutoCAD has a free version for students and occasional users (used too) which is the best and most capable, Bentley Micro Station which no longer supports a free version but is more civil oriented anyway, Corel Draw has a free version, used to be too basic for anything more than interior decorating but have expanded their program significantly to be effective for our purposes. It is hard to recommend any one program over another, the best advice I guess is to say that all the programs have similar basic functions and commands (wasn't always so but the industry self corrected to a point, they all still want the better mousetrap), which follows Auto Cad protocols to various degrees, so there is a familiarity in the icons. So it would be wise to suggest reading some descriptive and the permissions of several programs and pick a subject matter and try them out, the one you connect with the best is the one you obviously want. I prefer Auto Cad and have the LT version I purchased a while back ($1,700.00 at the time) and the free version which is very similar, but be aware of the permissions as they are extensive. Hope this helped a little. Good hunting and have fun.
Old 05-24-2015, 03:20 PM
  #820  
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Originally Posted by HoundDog
300 thousand EAA members and 99% don't even to attempt to build their own air craft ... that doesn't make any less an EAA'er ... Just as it doesn't make U any better AMA member because some build in stead of flying.
HoundDog, who said anything about builders being better than ARF flyers, no one is bashing anyone, the question was "what happened to all the builders''.
Most people are giving their opinions on which way the hobby has progressed through the years, I have nothing against U-Control, Free Flight, Helicopters, or any form of modeling, it's just a friendly conversation about the change in the way the model industry has gone.
I build all my aircraft, because I get the satisfaction of doing a complete ground up build, there are a lot of hours put in before you get to the step of covering.
Ron
Old 05-24-2015, 04:30 PM
  #821  
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There are always some who can't or don't read the title of the thread, We call these people Snarks. Happens all the time.
This morning I was out flying mt little ARF electric and my scratch built Roar. Between flights my friend and I would sit and watch the U-Control stunt pilots. A very nice morning but we both agree, if we tried to fly a U-Control the plane would be in the ground in about 6 laps and we would be on the ground loosing out breakfast.
I'm assembling an ARF right now, just waiting for the epoxy to set up.
Originally Posted by wingstrut
HoundDog, who said anything about builders being better than ARF flyers, no one is bashing anyone, the question was "what happened to all the builders''.
Most people are giving their opinions on which way the hobby has progressed through the years, I have nothing against U-Control, Free Flight, Helicopters, or any form of modeling, it's just a friendly conversation about the change in the way the model industry has gone.
I build all my aircraft, because I get the satisfaction of doing a complete ground up build, there are a lot of hours put in before you get to the step of covering.
Ron
Old 05-24-2015, 07:13 PM
  #822  
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I agree, please let us not turn this thread into another "Hobby King" cluster f@#k, so far it has been pleasant, I'd like to see it stay that way.
Old 05-26-2015, 08:00 AM
  #823  
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I agree there are threads out there for that. I'm the lazy type of builder, if I need something my LHS doesn't carry I just call him up and have him order it for me. I don't even order direct from Fiberglass Specialties. His pricing is always competitive and if advise and troubleshooting are free. If I do spend a few extra pennies well it keeps him around.
Old 05-26-2015, 02:44 PM
  #824  
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I like that, mom and pop LHS are a dying breed, we need to support.
Old 05-26-2015, 03:45 PM
  #825  
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Originally Posted by sierratango
Duncan....

Can you name a few of the CAD programs that are user friendly. I tried to use Compufoil to generate fuselage bulkheads along the entire length of the my fuselage project and is was not exactly what I wanted.

None are "user friendly" as your not going to be able to just open the program and start designing airplanes. These programs will require HOURS of learning before you'll have the knowledge base of designing an airplane from a set of 3-views.

I have been using solidworks for 6-7 years now and routinely put on average 20 hours a week on it doing RC stuff. A few years ago, it was more like 40-60hrs a week for 2 years. I have just now gotten to the point where i feel confident enough to design an airplane completely from scratch.

That said, none of them are overly hard to use either, they just have a very steep learning curve that takes a lot of dedication to get to the pount of levelling off.

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