Fuel proof paint alternatives?
06-05-2020, 07:58 PM
#26
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Back on topic now. Sorry for Amtraking this thread.
06-07-2020, 02:42 PM
#27
.
Now that you have a basic understanding about the differences, let's say you painted something with enamel (and we'll call it Rustoleum) and it's dry to the touch. You happen to smear it with some raw glow fuel and eventually you find the paint getting gummy and the color is wiping off. That's enamel that isn't fully cured! Remember, it could take months or longer to fully cure. Now let's say that a plane that was painted with Rustoleum sat around for years and suddenly you expose it to some glow fuel or some harsh solvent. I can promise you it will not get gummy, at least not without the added feature of the paint wrinkling up on the surface as if paint remover had been applied to it.
From my own observations, I find that although fully cured enamels generally have better chemical resistance than lacquers, lacquer has a tendency to dry faster and develop initial chemical resistance in a much shorter period of drying time.
Hopefully this has helped to clarify more than confuse, but I expect you get a little of both.
Now that you have a basic understanding about the differences, let's say you painted something with enamel (and we'll call it Rustoleum) and it's dry to the touch. You happen to smear it with some raw glow fuel and eventually you find the paint getting gummy and the color is wiping off. That's enamel that isn't fully cured! Remember, it could take months or longer to fully cure. Now let's say that a plane that was painted with Rustoleum sat around for years and suddenly you expose it to some glow fuel or some harsh solvent. I can promise you it will not get gummy, at least not without the added feature of the paint wrinkling up on the surface as if paint remover had been applied to it.
From my own observations, I find that although fully cured enamels generally have better chemical resistance than lacquers, lacquer has a tendency to dry faster and develop initial chemical resistance in a much shorter period of drying time.
Hopefully this has helped to clarify more than confuse, but I expect you get a little of both.
06-07-2020, 06:01 PM
#28
06-07-2020, 09:04 PM
#29
My TX had a fancy hydro-dipped paint job. I found it getting "sticky" after flying my planes. Thought it might be from the little bit of gas on my hands from starting the big gas airplane. Bought a blank case, and used Rustoleum engine enamel to paint it. Figured if it was for car engines, it should be reasonably resistant. After 2 years, it still gets a bit sticky, even if I take great care to wipe off all glow/gas residue after I start the engine, but before I pick up the TX. Found that using Windex (alcohol) as a cleaner made it much worse. So at least that enamel is not alcohol proof after a very long time.
I fixed my problem by buying self-adhesive silicone sheets, cutting them up, and applying to the TX wherever I may place my hands when holding it. And using a less aggressive cleaner. But that wouldn't work on an airplane.....
I'm of the opinion that the only remaining truly fuel proof paint available is Klass-Kote 2 part epoxy. (https://www.klasskote.com/) Which is just like the old K&B or Hobbypoxy. But it is the big $$, due to shipping costs.....
I fixed my problem by buying self-adhesive silicone sheets, cutting them up, and applying to the TX wherever I may place my hands when holding it. And using a less aggressive cleaner. But that wouldn't work on an airplane.....
I'm of the opinion that the only remaining truly fuel proof paint available is Klass-Kote 2 part epoxy. (https://www.klasskote.com/) Which is just like the old K&B or Hobbypoxy. But it is the big $$, due to shipping costs.....
06-08-2020, 01:22 AM
#30
My TX had a fancy hydro-dipped paint job. I found it getting "sticky" after flying my planes. Thought it might be from the little bit of gas on my hands from starting the big gas airplane. Bought a blank case, and used Rustoleum engine enamel to paint it. Figured if it was for car engines, it should be reasonably resistant. After 2 years, it still gets a bit sticky, even if I take great care to wipe off all glow/gas residue after I start the engine, but before I pick up the TX. Found that using Windex (alcohol) as a cleaner made it much worse. So at least that enamel is not alcohol proof after a very long time.
I fixed my problem by buying self-adhesive silicone sheets, cutting them up, and applying to the TX wherever I may place my hands when holding it. And using a less aggressive cleaner. But that wouldn't work on an airplane.....
I'm of the opinion that the only remaining truly fuel proof paint available is Klass-Kote 2 part epoxy. (https://www.klasskote.com/) Which is just like the old K&B or Hobbypoxy. But it is the big $$, due to shipping costs.....
I fixed my problem by buying self-adhesive silicone sheets, cutting them up, and applying to the TX wherever I may place my hands when holding it. And using a less aggressive cleaner. But that wouldn't work on an airplane.....
I'm of the opinion that the only remaining truly fuel proof paint available is Klass-Kote 2 part epoxy. (https://www.klasskote.com/) Which is just like the old K&B or Hobbypoxy. But it is the big $$, due to shipping costs.....
It amazes me that in the absence of a decent variety of fuelproof paints within the hobby, seemingly the first choice as an alternative by builders is Rustoleum.
Rustoleum has its uses and I myself bought 8 cans of Rustoleum spray as recently as yesterday to use on some old patio furniture. It has its uses, but at the same time it happens to be one of the cheapest, lowest grade enamel paints available and is completely unsuitable as a fuelproof finish!!!
For some reason, a lot of model aviation enthusiasts seem to have a lot of difficulty comprehending this.
As far as engine enamel, I guess by its description one might imagine it to be durable, but for those who used it, how many have subjected the paint to temperatures that an engine produces? I'll bet that if you cooked that paint at the temperatures that it's intended for, you just MIGHT get it to be fuelproof.
Car paint, at least professional car paint (not necessarily the touch up spray cans) is fuelproof. Don't automatically believe me or disbelieve me on this. Go to you car and apply some glow fuel to the paint in some inconspicuous spot and see for yourself.
06-08-2020, 02:45 AM
#31
Rather than speculate, why not just spend a few bucks for some Rustoleum that you might be considering using and paint some garbage item like an empty soda bottle or a cereal box or some such thing. Wait 7 or more days and check what happens when you apply some glow fuel to it. At that point you will KNOW the results for yourself regardless of what anyone else may tell you.
06-08-2020, 06:10 AM
#32
No! While Klass-Kote MAY be the only remaining truly fuelproof IN THE HOBBY FIELD, there are many paints available for purposes unrelated to model airplanes that ARE TRULY FUELPROOF!
It amazes me that in the absence of a decent variety of fuelproof paints within the hobby, seemingly the first choice as an alternative by builders is Rustoleum.
Rustoleum has its uses and I myself bought 8 cans of Rustoleum spray as recently as yesterday to use on some old patio furniture. It has its uses, but at the same time it happens to be one of the cheapest, lowest grade enamel paints available and is completely unsuitable as a fuelproof finish!!!
For some reason, a lot of model aviation enthusiasts seem to have a lot of difficulty comprehending this.
As far as engine enamel, I guess by its description one might imagine it to be durable, but for those who used it, how many have subjected the paint to temperatures that an engine produces? I'll bet that if you cooked that paint at the temperatures that it's intended for, you just MIGHT get it to be fuelproof.
Car paint, at least professional car paint (not necessarily the touch up spray cans) is fuelproof. Don't automatically believe me or disbelieve me on this. Go to you car and apply some glow fuel to the paint in some inconspicuous spot and see for yourself.
It amazes me that in the absence of a decent variety of fuelproof paints within the hobby, seemingly the first choice as an alternative by builders is Rustoleum.
Rustoleum has its uses and I myself bought 8 cans of Rustoleum spray as recently as yesterday to use on some old patio furniture. It has its uses, but at the same time it happens to be one of the cheapest, lowest grade enamel paints available and is completely unsuitable as a fuelproof finish!!!
For some reason, a lot of model aviation enthusiasts seem to have a lot of difficulty comprehending this.
As far as engine enamel, I guess by its description one might imagine it to be durable, but for those who used it, how many have subjected the paint to temperatures that an engine produces? I'll bet that if you cooked that paint at the temperatures that it's intended for, you just MIGHT get it to be fuelproof.
Car paint, at least professional car paint (not necessarily the touch up spray cans) is fuelproof. Don't automatically believe me or disbelieve me on this. Go to you car and apply some glow fuel to the paint in some inconspicuous spot and see for yourself.
06-08-2020, 08:28 AM
#33
Oh, I completely believe you about the car paint! But the concern gets to be ease of use, equipment needed either for a good job or safety, costs for relatively small quantities, and availability for the average consumer. Latex house paint seems to be a reasonable alternative for gasoline models. But glow models...it's getting really, really hard to find something that ticks all the boxes, or at least doesn't miss them by too much!
Last edited by airsteve172; 06-08-2020 at 08:30 AM.
06-08-2020, 05:04 PM
#34
Oh, I completely believe you about the car paint! But the concern gets to be ease of use, equipment needed either for a good job or safety, costs for relatively small quantities, and availability for the average consumer. Latex house paint seems to be a reasonable alternative for gasoline models. But glow models...it's getting really, really hard to find something that ticks all the boxes, or at least doesn't miss them by too much!
Ease of use: Automotive paint is a paint like any other. The only difficulty I can detect would be in mixing part A with part B in correct proportion and we all know difficult it is to mix epoxy glue.
Equipment needed: This could be tough if the sum total of your painting equipment is an old paint brush used to slap on house paint. If, on the other hand, you've been able to spray any kind of paint on a model with the equipment you have, you certainly can spray automotive paint. In using this equipment, if you haven't been able to do a good job spraying paint in the past or haven't been able to do it safely, I suspect that the results with auto paint will be equally dismal. If you haven't been able to a good job with spray cans in the past, you can also do an equally crummy job with professional automotive paint that's also available in spray cans, but it will be fuelproof!
Cost for a relatively small quantity: 30 or so years ago when automotive lacquer was the predominant finish on cars, it took a lot of coats to build up enough of a layer for a paint job. Today's urethanes are very efficient in their build and require far fewer coats and much less paint. As I had mentioned in previous posts, automotive urethanes aren't cheap, but neither is any hobby paint that's truly fuelproof. In any event, be assured that the cost for a relatively small quantity is relatively small.
Availability for the average consumer: If you define an average consumer as someone who commonly purchases things like balsa, covering materials, specialized hardware, radio control electronic equipment, miniature internal combustion engines, propellers, nitro fuels, etc., then I must conclude that automotive paint is readily available for the "average consumer".
06-09-2020, 07:07 AM
#35
My apologies, didn't mean to get into a debate.
The earlier posts seemed to lean toward spray can/ brush applications, so that's where I was coming from in my responses. Of course if someone has the equipment and desire to use it, then the options open up greatly.
I'm not well versed in the current world of paint, so probably was assuming most of the "professional" auto paints were still requiring full external air supply respirators, etc. Of course any sprayed paint is bad for the lungs. But if some modern auto paints are no worse than the old dopes/enamals/expoxies, that is welcome information.
Do you have any recommendations for specific brands/types to shop for at my local well stocked auto parts/auto paint retailer?
The earlier posts seemed to lean toward spray can/ brush applications, so that's where I was coming from in my responses. Of course if someone has the equipment and desire to use it, then the options open up greatly.
I'm not well versed in the current world of paint, so probably was assuming most of the "professional" auto paints were still requiring full external air supply respirators, etc. Of course any sprayed paint is bad for the lungs. But if some modern auto paints are no worse than the old dopes/enamals/expoxies, that is welcome information.
Do you have any recommendations for specific brands/types to shop for at my local well stocked auto parts/auto paint retailer?
06-09-2020, 08:53 AM
#36
My apologies, didn't mean to get into a debate.
The earlier posts seemed to lean toward spray can/ brush applications, so that's where I was coming from in my responses. Of course if someone has the equipment and desire to use it, then the options open up greatly.
I'm not well versed in the current world of paint, so probably was assuming most of the "professional" auto paints were still requiring full external air supply respirators, etc. Of course any sprayed paint is bad for the lungs. But if some modern auto paints are no worse than the old dopes/enamals/expoxies, that is welcome information.
Do you have any recommendations for specific brands/types to shop for at my local well stocked auto parts/auto paint retailer?
The earlier posts seemed to lean toward spray can/ brush applications, so that's where I was coming from in my responses. Of course if someone has the equipment and desire to use it, then the options open up greatly.
I'm not well versed in the current world of paint, so probably was assuming most of the "professional" auto paints were still requiring full external air supply respirators, etc. Of course any sprayed paint is bad for the lungs. But if some modern auto paints are no worse than the old dopes/enamals/expoxies, that is welcome information.
Do you have any recommendations for specific brands/types to shop for at my local well stocked auto parts/auto paint retailer?
Now that you know what you're looking for, you might stop by at a local body shop and ask them where their paint supplier is located. Auto Body Supply shops are industrial by nature and are typically located in industrial rather that commercial areas. Auto parts stores occasionally do carry professional auto paints, but that's the exception rather than the rule even though they typically have consumer grade touch up paints which are not (2K).
There is a company on line that sells professional grade auto body products primarily to consumers called Eastwood. They also have a range of videos on YouTube that explain various aspects of auto body painting and repair. Do a search on YouTube for "Eastwood 2K Aero-Spray Paint". It should give you a lot more insight about this stuff.
I hope I've given you enough crumbs to follow that will lead you to wealth of information about the subject. If something still seems a mystery, feel free to ask!!!
Last edited by airsteve172; 06-09-2020 at 08:58 AM.
06-10-2020, 12:52 PM
#38
There are basically two types of fuel proof finishes, first being Butyrate Dope, not Nitrate, it is not fuel proof. Second being a catalyst type paint, basically any paint that uses a hardener, or some form of a curing process that cross links. Any 2K auto clear will be fuel poof, those are the ones where a hardener is mixed prior to application and if it is left in the cup will turn into a block after a while. Klass Kote is considered a catalyst paint because there are two parts mixed prior to application.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
06-10-2020, 03:33 PM
#39
There are basically two types of fuel proof finishes, first being Butyrate Dope, not Nitrate, it is not fuel proof. Second being a catalyst type paint, basically any paint that uses a hardener, or some form of a curing process that cross links. Any 2K auto clear will be fuel poof, those are the ones where a hardener is mixed prior to application and if it is left in the cup will turn into a block after a while. Klass Kote is considered a catalyst paint because there are two parts mixed prior to application.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
A rule of painting: You can apply enamel on top of lacquer, but never the other way around!
Dope, whether butyrate or nitrate is classified as a lacquer, meaning that if you apply a solvent (lacqer thinner) to dried lacquer material it will dissolve to being liquid paint again unlike enamel which will not because it has undergone a chemical change during drying (curing). Yes, enamel will soften or curdle when exposed to harsh solvents like lacquer thinner, but will never return to being liquid enamel paint. That's why if you put lacquer over enamel, you're screwed! Enamel has milder solvents in it that do not affect lacquer.
There are many misnomers in the business of paint that make it even more confusing than it already is. One such example is a stuff called NAIL ENAMEL also referred to as nail polish. Yes, the stuff for the ladies, but still, it's just paint! While they refer to it as an enamel, in reality it's a lacquer. Now for the sake of comparison, let's look at Testor's enamel model paints. They come in similar size bottles.
A lot of guys probably have at least a bottle of each in the house, so for those that do, let's try an experiment. Take a scrap item such as an empty soda bottle or something and paint two spots on the item about a square inch each, one spot nail polish and the other Tester's enamel. Let both of them dry thoroughly and in the process you'll notice that the nail polish will be dry before you know it while the Testor's is going to take MUCH longer to dry. After they are both as dry as they can possibly be, go and apply some lacquer thinner or acetone to both of them. You'll see the nail polish just dissolves back into liquid paint while the Testor's enamel gets broken down, getting curdled, but not returning to smooth liquid paint. That's because one is a lacquer and the other is an enamel even both of them got called an enamel.
Yeah, this subject does get tedious and may be more than you really want to know, but understanding what's going on could be a little more useful than making guesses or relying on others' guesses or misconceptions.
I always wished there was a single source that one could go to for reliable information about finishes and their comparative values, but so far I haven't found one. Instead, I had to do my own research and find bits of information here and there and of course, learn from my own mistakes.
Maybe through the discussions here, even though sometimes confusing, some will get a bit of insight.
06-11-2020, 07:42 AM
#42
Here's something interesting, 5 years later, neither the Nitrate, nor butyrate dopes harm the Rustoluem paint, yet when it was just a few months old it would curdle it. Takes a long time to cure, more than a few months. I will stick to auto paint and latex from now on.
06-11-2020, 12:49 PM
#43
If you paint an item with an air dry enamel and the item sits outdoors in the sunlight and hot weather, it's possible that the paint will reach a fully cured state in about a month. If on the other hand you paint an item and it sits in a cold dark basement or a garage, seriously, it can take years to fully cure! Also remember that the thicker the coat of paint that you've applied, the longer it will take to cure.
Last edited by airsteve172; 06-11-2020 at 12:54 PM.
06-11-2020, 01:25 PM
#44
And it did. It also weighs a LOT. Between the stix it, dope, primer and paint, it added well over a pound to the plane. I just recovered the plane in film and it is lighter now. Had some heft to the wing and now it feels light like it should. I have a thread under kit building recovering a chipmunk with before and after pics. The white turning yellow was the deciding factor to recover it.
06-12-2020, 06:26 AM
#45
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Well, the plot thickens. Here's the last response I got from the paint technician guy at Sig after I informed him that their fuel proof paint was actually not fuel proof:
"First of all those paints are fuel RESISTANT to brief contact. Fuel is made up of 2 powerful industrial solvents and if allowed to soak and then scrubbed the paint will come off. If you wash it with straight isopropyl alcohol or glow fuel it is like cleaning with paint remover. If you wipe off spilled fuel immediately without scrubbing it should be ok. If you can’t get it completely dry on the first wipe let the rest of the solvents evaporate then clean up the remaining oil. The only paints that are fuel proof are the two part paints like epoxy or the catalyzed polyurethane automotive paints (death paints)."
I responded that the Sig website and the paint can itself describes their product as "fuel PROOF". Fuel "proof" and fuel "resistant" have quite different meanings to the typical user of the English language. Finally, I requested a refund of money spent on their paint which they misrepresent. Crickets of course.
I am so done with Sig products!
"First of all those paints are fuel RESISTANT to brief contact. Fuel is made up of 2 powerful industrial solvents and if allowed to soak and then scrubbed the paint will come off. If you wash it with straight isopropyl alcohol or glow fuel it is like cleaning with paint remover. If you wipe off spilled fuel immediately without scrubbing it should be ok. If you can’t get it completely dry on the first wipe let the rest of the solvents evaporate then clean up the remaining oil. The only paints that are fuel proof are the two part paints like epoxy or the catalyzed polyurethane automotive paints (death paints)."
I responded that the Sig website and the paint can itself describes their product as "fuel PROOF". Fuel "proof" and fuel "resistant" have quite different meanings to the typical user of the English language. Finally, I requested a refund of money spent on their paint which they misrepresent. Crickets of course.
I am so done with Sig products!
06-12-2020, 07:23 AM
#46
There are basically two types of fuel proof finishes, first being Butyrate Dope, not Nitrate, it is not fuel proof. Second being a catalyst type paint, basically any paint that uses a hardener, or some form of a curing process that cross links. Any 2K auto clear will be fuel poof, those are the ones where a hardener is mixed prior to application and if it is left in the cup will turn into a block after a while. Klass Kote is considered a catalyst paint because there are two parts mixed prior to application.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
Which of the clears for Finish 1 do you use? I see on the link they have "Super Brillante", "Spot Clear", "Euro Clear" and "Ultimate".
06-12-2020, 11:41 AM
#47
Depends on use case, but the last one I got was for spot panels. It is used for blending into existing clear. The other three are meant for full panel or complete painting. Since my Corsair is partially cleared, I used what was left in the gun, didn't want to waste it and was able to to the top of the wing and part of the fuse, I got the spot type so I can blend it.
06-12-2020, 04:53 PM
#48
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There are basically two types of fuel proof finishes, first being Butyrate Dope, not Nitrate, it is not fuel proof. Second being a catalyst type paint, basically any paint that uses a hardener, or some form of a curing process that cross links. Any 2K auto clear will be fuel poof, those are the ones where a hardener is mixed prior to application and if it is left in the cup will turn into a block after a while. Klass Kote is considered a catalyst paint because there are two parts mixed prior to application.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
Rustoleum from a can, not a spray can, but a paint can you dip a brush into does become fuel proof over time, but the spray cans do not. Also Nitrate dope will melt fully catalyzed Rustoleum, been there, done that. Tried doing a repair on year old paint and it curdled it. There are some polyurethanes that are also fuel proof, but again, they are two part paints.
Don't confuse 2X with 2K paints, 2X is a twice the coverage paint, 2K is a 2 part catalyst based paint. You can get 2K spray paint, there is a button on the bottom of the can that releases the hardener prior to spraying and you have roughly 24 hours to use it all up before it hardens in the can.
Water Based polyurethanes are gas/oil proof, but not glow fuel proof, it will turn it gooey. OTOH regular polyurethane that requires paint thinner to clean up with does become glow fuel proof, provided it is from a brush can and not a spray can. Whatever solvents are used with ploy sprays paints does something to prevent the paint from resisting alcohol. I ran all kinds of tests to kind a decent low cost fuel proof paint, and ultimately it is either dope or 2K clear over latex. This is what I have been using over Latex. I have a fresh quart here now for my Corsair, and B-25, FC710. It lays smooth, hardens fast, and is easy to work with, polishes nice too. The real trick to be watchful of is using the proper hardener for the temp being sprayed at. You want a medium or slow for when it is hot out, if you use fast it will go on as a dust instead of a liquid, and if you use a slow when it is cool out it can sag and run.
There are only two classes of colored paint or clear coat which are glow fuel proof:
1.Butyrate Dope;
2. Two component (2K) i.e. catalyzed or cross linked, solvent based;
If we consider primers, the rule must be modified to include 2K epoxy .products that, in some cases, are waterborne, i.e., System III WB155 and SilverTip Yacht primer.
If they can make primer fuel proof though waterborne, why not colored or clear? (I am aware of System Three WR-LPU color paints (water REDUCIBLE linear polyurethane. I suspect there is a difference between the chemistry of water borne coatings and water reducible, which might have something to do with the resin used in the product.)
06-12-2020, 05:18 PM
#49
I don't know about the rest of you but I spend a lot of time, effort and money on my models. I refuse to scrimp, cut corners or look for the cheapest way of doing things. Paint is one of those. I cannot count the times I have seen someones beautiful model turn to shid the first time its flown and cleaned. I only use Klasscote or Stitts Poly systems.
06-14-2020, 09:53 AM
#50
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I forgot about the PolyFiber line and its Poly-Tone paints. I painted one model with Poly-Tone paints. I ran 12% nitro glow fuel which did no damage.
The manufacturer's website did not have the SDS sheets for the paint but it described the PolyFiber line as "all vinyl".
Poly-Tone paint is solvent based, so we have a third type of paint which is fuel proof..
I didn't top coat the color and thought it was soft. What is your experience, Propworm?
The manufacturer's website did not have the SDS sheets for the paint but it described the PolyFiber line as "all vinyl".
Poly-Tone paint is solvent based, so we have a third type of paint which is fuel proof..
I didn't top coat the color and thought it was soft. What is your experience, Propworm?