OK, another Newb here. My club has just finished up a project called the charity flyer. It is a Bruce Tharpe Super Flying King. We plan on taking it to our and other club's events this summer and charging $1 a minute for flight time on a buddy box. All proceeds going to the Ronald McDonald House. So anyway, I helped out a bit on this plane and it made me want to try a kit. I have been strictly ARF until now, and I have assembled about 4 so far. I went a little crazy a couple of months ago and bought a bunch of planes. Stuff has been coming up that has slowed me down as far as building goes, so I haven't really got into yet. I am planning on purchasing a door and some ceiling tile for a building board, and then get started. The planes I purchased are: a Laser Arrow, an Ace Simple Series Corsair, and a Sig Wonder. I was wanting to know which one I should start on? I was thinking the Arrow, since it is basically a wing and nothing else, plus it is laser cut, and it will probably go pretty fast with the OS 46 SF, and a Macs pre-tuned pipe(I have been itching to fly a fast plane!). So what does everyone think? will that be a good first kit?

Thanks,
Allan

I'm presently building a Laser 3D. I found Laser Models directions to be very sketchy. They are written in three or four languages and each step only has one sentence in English. They don't tell you much - they assume you are an experienced kit builder. If the Arrow is similar I would say that it is not a good first kit.

I've heard that Sigs instructions are top notch.

I would suggest the Wonder first. It's an easy build, and it will teach youserveral good building skills. Even though the Arrow is "Only a wing", deltas can be tricky.

Thanks! I will have to pull out the Arrow's instructions. The pieces look as if they will just fall together. If it at all looks sketchy, I will start with the Wonder.

Thanks again,
Allan

well, I builded two arrows already, and some wonder.
the arrow is definitly easier to frame up than a wonder !

because I builded also the laser 3D I understand the opinion of the fellow above, but the it's not the case for the arrow. Altough the instruction are very short, it's nearly impossible to make a mistake
when I opened the box of my first one I tought that there was something missing, in fact there is no full size plans, only an exploded view of the plane. you really don't need a plan to build it !

just be carreful that you fully push the parts in the notches and check that you are working straight using your eyes and a square

this laser cut kit assemble like a lego

the picture I will post now is a 3 days work . I could have build it in 2 days (one for airframe and one for covering and radio stuff instalation) but i made some mods who required one day extra work. it serve as inflight test stand for my eagletree data recorder

altough the one you see on the pic is fit with a .61, I recomand a .45 size engine.

it's really easy to build (more easy than a somethin extra for example)
this is also an excelent first delta with a top speed around 90 MPH with a .46 engine.
this tick profile as good low speed characteristic.

let me know if you build it, I have some easy to do mods to improve it a bit

basicly to make sure that you don't do any mistake when building your arrow, just keep in mind that if you have to sand something this mean you are going to make a mistake ......(except for the leading edges shaping and final sanding of course)

Thanks Salmon, I will go ahead and build the laser first. After looking at the kit, I really don't think it will be difficult. As you said the pieces go right together. I think I saw in another post that you put retracts on yours, how are they working out? This is definately something I might do to mine as well, if yours worked out OK.

Allan

i don't putted retract in laser arrow, but I am making this mod on a BTE delta vortex.

the mods I made on the arrow are

-install a antena tube runing along the trailing edge (inside the plane), put it close enough to the trailing edge to allow that it doesn't interfer when you will install the fins after covering.
- glue tri stocks on the leading edge of the elevons, this reduce the sanding job of the "v" shape to nope
- I cutted the edges of the elevons to improve a bit the look

in the pic I join you can see the antena tube going in the 'radio compartment box' look trough the covering. This pic is my.45 arrow, you can also see the cut of the elevons

OK cool, thanks for the tips, I thought I saw retracts on the Arrow. Nice looking vortex though!

Allan

PigMan,


altough i didn't instal a retracted on my arrow, I plan to modify one with fixed gear in a near future.
this mod will certainly REDUCE the fly behaviours and top speed of the plane, but I want to try it

Altough I will do that I won't recomand it, heavy mods will be necessary on the structure.

A stock .45 arrow will leave your hands without you need to launch it. Simply put the plane over your head by holding it by the skid and release it with the plane in a straight forward attitude or slightly nose up

I will give you the flight controls throw I use for each phase of flight, don't use those given by the book for take off, the plane will be really too sensitive and respond too fast !

don't forget to install your servo BEFORE gluing the servo mounting plates, I recomand that you go with two elevons only setup if your radio support elevon mixing

Really? Don't do the elevator in the center? My radio does do elevon mixing, would the reason for not doing the elevator be an increased roll rate with the longer ailerons/elevons? I guess I would lose the weight of one servo as well.

I have to admit that I didn't build a arrow with central elevator, so I duno how it fly.

What I know is that the two elevon setup work, great, that it allow you to save some weight, the roll rate is very very fast.

The only dark side that i can see to this kind of flight control setup is that if one of your flight controls servo fail during flight the airplane is definitly dead.

it's possible to control a plane with one aileron working and elevator or make a controled crash with a inoperative elevator servo, but it's impossible to fly a delta with only one elevon operating.

so install good servos in case of elevon setup

I feel you have gone through this and saved your plane...


As far as the "aileron + elevator" setup is concerned, this is right only if each aileron has its own servo, which is not necessarily the case. So good servos are also required if you go for an "aileron(1servo) + elevator(1 servo)" setup too. Personaly I wouldn't dare using "not that good" servos whatever the setup... Always use the best you can afford, rule of thumb.

i have just finished both the sig wonder and the laser arrow. The arrow was very easy to build. but the instuctions dont tell you how to do anything. I built the wonder first cause i bought it first. It was my first kit. Sig gives wonderful directions on how to do everything. By building the wonder first i think you will learn some valuable things about building a kit. Otherwise you might be wondering what to do with the arrow. When i was building the arrow i was glad that i had prior expeirience.

[/quote]

As far as the "aileron + elevator" setup is concerned, this is right only if each aileron has its own servo, which is not necessarily the case. So good servos are also required if you go for an "aileron(1servo) + elevator(1 servo)" setup too. [/quote]

This is so evident that I didn't mentioned it


but let me add to that that in MOST case (I know you build a shrike, but this is one exception like the wonder), planes having only one aileron servo has also a rudder who can manage the roll control in case of aileron servo failure

SalmonBug,

I simply wanted to make it clearer about the setup... The more servos you have for a given set of functions (to some extent), the safer you fly, generally speaking. Sorry if it was pointless.

I bet you assume your wing has a fairly good amount of dihedral, otherwise rudder seems to have only a marginal outcome on aircraft roll (enough for a controlled crash ? can't say...). To my mind, it is all the more impossible to control the roll of your aircraft with rudder only as your ailerons have gone farther form the neutral position (and are stuck [:@] there). I've never experienced any servo failure [8D], so I can't say more, but I guess they seldom get back to neutral before failing... In a few words, my feeling is that, if you lose both ailerons, be prepared to rekit your aircraft (or perhaps should I take some piloting lessons ?). What about your rudder equipped / no dihedral Wonder, SalmonBug ?

I bet with you one bottle of champain that i fly it with the aileron servo unpluged and that I will make a roll (not a nice one I admit) with both rudder set for a max deflection of 1/4 inches.

Ok so it was that : I HAVE TO TAKE SOME LESSONS [&o] !

how does the arrow turn?

IMHO, an Arrow does not turn : it rolls then goes up ! I feel I would not be confident with an Arrow equiped with functional rudders and elevator only....