planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Any one building or has built an extra 300s kit by lanier in the quarter scale size? I should receive mine in a few days from lanier direct. I'm planning on using a mds 1.48 I have laying around, does anyone have any suggestions when building this bird? I plan on changing the turtle deck and hatch to sheeted balsa over foam or balsa formers. Let me know your thoughts on this kit
Thanks Ray

Steve

My Feedback: (54)

I have built one of these and they do build a little on the heavy side. If you build a turtledeck out of balsa stringers it will help. If you are going to use a heavy motor, just use the plastic. They are fun to build but take a little thought befor gluing stuf together. I have a 1/4 scale Laser I am working on now.

Steve

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

In my experience, I've had a lot of planes and my favorite and best flying plane I've ever owned, was a gp 60 sized extra 300 and it was just perfect. I had a hanger 9 cap and edge 540 planes and I've seen and flown a friends giles 202, the extra is defiantly a better plane by far, it feels more refined in control and capabilities. Thats why I choose to build a larger extra 300 instead of buying a poorly built arf areobat. Let's face it, I love my GP Pitts 1/3 scale but it's built with the cheesy wood and hot melt glue on the joints. I feel better if I built it and I know it's limits and structure quality.

Floater-RCU

PB66 I know where you are coming from, even after a major mishap and some major repair my GP60 Extra is still my favorite plane! And that is why I am currently building a MW 80"EXtra.
Floater.

Nauset

Hi Ray,
How is your Extra project turning out. I have been building one off and on for a while. I was wondering if you purchased the foam turtle deck you mentiond of if it was something you fabricated yourself.
Thanks,
Greg

Rate1

Hello guys, this is a dead thread. Let see if we can shake some life into it.

I have just ordered the Lanier Extra 300S 1/4 scale. I will try to use my OS 120 Surpass III pumped and see how this bird will handle it. As I understand, most users is ending up with a 12-13 lbs plane. By using an engine at the low end it is necessary for me to try to finish this bird at 11 lbs. Lets see how that goes when my order arrives. If I fail reaching the 11 lbs mark or it is just too dull with my 120 I guess I will need to get my hands on a YS 140.

My outline is to discard the ABS parts and use glassfiber cowl and wheelpants. As suggested on this thread, build a balsa turtle deck and canopy hatch.
I ordered Carbonfiber wing-tub from Budd engineering. This together with light weight hardware including CF landing gear.

By the way, me too had the GP Extra 300S .60 wich I loved. If this Lanier turns out as good as the GP Extra .60 it will be a winner.

Is there any guys here on RCU that have any experience, feed back, or even just an observations on this bird lately then chime in?

superworm

Hi Rate1

Not yet a dead thread so I'll add my 2 cent's worth.

I've had this kit for a goodly number of years..it is about half finished since I'm "scalifying" it somewhat...windows in the floor panels, properly (as per original) hinged flying surfaces complete with shrouds and spades (very tricky to accomplish), hinged canopy as per and will go with a miralite ply (1/64") turtledeck with a horizontal tail that I can remove for transport. Hope to have some "reynolds" tubing in the cockpit and I have the glass cowling and pants from Bubba (great guy to speak with) and, in view of the slight (hopefully) weight increase, there is a YS 140 waiting to go up front. I haven't yet laid my hands on a CFRP landing gear but hope to source one soon....the ally gear as supplied ain't that heavy (he's my brother!). I also have a Don Harris Smoke Muffler from California way but I think Don retired now...did anyone take over his business ???.. .......This is my "on-going" project

Sitting in the cockpit will be Patty herself - before she went blonde (courtesy of the guy who used to supply Don's Hobby shop http://www.donshobbyshop.com/ many moons ago - Virtual Reality Pilots ??) and I have a full set of her earlier (BF Goodrich, etc) Sponsor's decal set for her Blue/White 1997 'ish Extra sourced from AeroFX from Stratford, OK. (are they still around ?)

In addition to this I have about 4 other 300S of various sizes (including Graupner with an OS 91FX, another with a YS 91 and a little foamy one (Ultrafly) for brushless EP (nearly finished). Lurking up the loft is an ancient EZ230 with an even more ancient Enya 53FS.

Yep.. I love my Extra's ... Hope you all enjoy yours

Cheers

Superworm

PS that Patty Wagstaff lady could have had me for keeps if she'd a'played her dominoes properly! Got her autograph and a smile at TOC Las Vegas '97 and I'm still in love with her..... but don't tell the missus

Rate1

Superworm...."speachless".... You are my hero. Post pictures!

What is miralite ply?? I assume light weight and strong, but is it accessable for average dude? Is it a difficult material to work with, meaning is it hard to form a turtle deck out of it?

What servos should one get for this plane assuming it will have a flying weight of 12 lbs?
So far I have flown a .60 bird and own a couple servos from there. I used HS81 on throttle, HS5645 on rudder, and HS..something anaolog karbonite gear approx 70oz on elevator and ailerons.

And Superworm, who is Bubba???

parrthd

this thread now has my interest due to the fact i've been looking at plan building a 25% giles 202. i have a 60 size 300s and love the way it flies so you guys blaze the trail and keep us posted....may even change my mind about the giles.

zope_pope

I look forward to watching you folks build. I am so glad that I wasn't the only person who loved my GP Extra 60 beyond anything. It was a beauty till I made the mistake of not securing the battery. I'll have to build another one, one of these days.

I am very interested to see everyones lightening techniques. Good day.

superworm

I can't believe I just spent almost an hour researching and creating a reply posting and my PC just cr*pped out...I'm off for a sulking session ... get back with y'all later!

Cheers
(Not so) Superworm

Rate1

Well Superworm, I am looking fwrd to your input. Try to toss in a picture from your project.

What kind of material is the fuze sides made of? I saw on another thread, regarding the Lanier Laser 1/4, that the sides where of heavy quality and it was recomended to lighten the frame by changing them for 1/8 light ply.
What is your overall impression with the wood quality in this kit?

superworm

Yo Rate1....I'm going to keep my postings short in future and maybe double up on quantity.

Last post first so here's my reply on your question on Fuselage Sides.

My fuse sides came in two pieces along their length with the intention of being joined by a "sawtooth" splice joint....the reason being so that they would fit in the kit box. Not that I had a big problem with this but I actually bought a 4ft length of liteply and created new ones at slightly less weight. It is my intention that the turtledeck is removeable since that is where the servos will live....don't want to clutter the cockpit up with anything other than Patty and some space-frame tubes..hence the use of Mirralite Ply " for the turtle decking (now that I can spell that properly). (I shall be using part of the original ABS Turtle decking as a "fairing" around the Vertical Tail and Hirizontal Tail joint area ...as per the real A/C so don't toss your ABS deck if you are going this route.

On to the mirralite ply....methinks this is but a "trade"name...it is simply 1/64th inch thick Birch 3-ply...should be available from any model shop in a large enough size but if not, all you "colonial" modellers can getfrom Riley via UPS from Texas:

http://www.lonestar-models.com/

Limey types can also consider "Proskins" from Mick Reeves Models. This is Glass Fibre Sheet in 0.2, 0.3 and 0.4 mm thickess....that is just 0.007 inches thickness for the 0.2 mm.. Mick supplies this stuff to cover the open structured wings/tails/Flaps of his Gas Turbine powered Hawker Hunter (now that is one beautiful bird), and his English Electric Lightning. I haven't used this stuff yet but I've seen it and its weighs nothing and looks good.....Its good to cover foam core wings also and you don't have to glass it again like you would have to with balso or obechi veneer coverings (except for LE of course)...may go this route myself

http://www.mickreevesmodels.co.uk/

Mick Reeves exports also and you get it cheaper 'cos you won't have to pay our rip-off Value Added Tax (VAT) - like your sales tax -on top of the retail price.


OK More later..got to post this afore this box crashes

Cheers

superworm

Yo Rate 1

Bubba is, of course, the famous Bubba Spivvy.....Bubba was a founder member of the original ZAP GANG along with Frank Tiano

http://www.franktiano.com/

the guys from Robart and, of course the Zap folks.

Bubba is MD of Lanier Models...

http://www.lanierrc.com/lrcprivate/

btw..one of my favourite sayings (I think I invented it but I could be wong) is that..

"there are some folks who can talk and there are some folks who know....then there are some folks who know what they're talking about"

I am happy to report that Bubba is one of the latter....a gentleman and a scholar.




Yo Prrthd...don't want to burst your bubble but imo (for what its worth) is that a Giles is one UGLY airplane...reminds me too much of the dedicated all-look-alike (to me anyways) "Pattern Ships" a lot of which (not all) seem to hog the strip whilst they do hours of practicing (LE sweepback and TE straight out of the sides)....If you don't fancy an Extra, maybe you should take a peek at a (Zivko) Edge 540.......... Lanier used to do one but I'm not sure if they still do....check the site. If you know any Arty types, you could even make it look like a Red Bull Racer:

www.redbullairrace.com

Cheers

superworm

No piccies of the Extra yet .. there is half a set of kitchen cabinets and a Mk1 Golf (Rabbit) GTI in my shop area!

but here's a piccy of my Goldberg Ultimate 10-300s to tide you over and to see if I'm capable of uploading piccy files
(just checking ...I guess I can upload!)

Cheers

parrthd

actually i have an older hobbico 300s that had been assembled and traded around for a long time but never flew until i got it. i love the way it flies. just wanting something a bit different there's already a 33% lanier 300 that flies at our field. one of the guys had the 1/4 scale GP Giles and he NEVER shuts up about how well he liked that plane. Trust me, he manages to ALWAYS stick that one in there whenever someone says something about getting a new plane. I don't prefer arfs though (even though i do own a few) which cuts your choices by 80% or better in the scale/sport division. the giles was one of my "long term projects" haven't decided 100% on a giles yet just one that sort of hung around in my head.

Rate1

Superworm,

Pro skin is def looking very interesting. I have never seen nor heard about this material before. Question is if the finished structure with this skin material will have a lighter weight (considering needed painting after application) and if it will be as strong or even stronger, than that of a traditional foam and balsa sheet construction? Also if it is more difficult to work with, hence harder to make it look good and possible screw up ones project. Please shead some more light on this material.

What servos are you guys planing to use?

Parrthd, dump the Giles and join the gang. We will all build this Lanier Extra and together help eachother to make the best Lanier Extra 1/4 there is.

Rate1

Check... [8D]

A bit prematurely I know but I belive this is the scheme I will go for. I have even found a German company that are ready to make the decals for me.

http://www.2excelaviation.com/gallery.html

superworm

Yo Rate1

Methinks Proskin looks very good..I've only ever seen samples and seen it fitted to models (see Harold Dowbekin's Big Mig in thumbnail) but never used it myself. I believe the 0.2 mm is a lot lighter than our usual Balsa skins + 0.6 oz Glass + resin... I'll have to weigh it!

I always use stock Futaba servo's rather than after market ones...never (touch wood) had a problem with Futaba although I've had probs with others a few year ago when I worked in US of A. For the Extra I will go with 9202's although I will more than likely double-up on the elevator since mine will be as per and be a one piece with a ply joiner. I have used Jerry Nelson's (Oregon's famous son but looks like he may have moved to Texas!) Servo arms and bellcranks before...good stuff....check him out..he does worldwide delivery options

http://www.nelsonhobby.com/index.html


There's a guy in Limeyland who distributes his stuff also (Stuart Solomon) but I don't think he has a website...I'll have a dig around..but he attends quite a few of the LMA meets in England.

2EXCEL scheme looks great...did you check out the Red Bull Air Racing site for more ideas ?

Ok..I'll post this before this box dies again

Talk with y'all later

Rate1

Superworm,
Do you intend to fiberglass the main wings or even the hole plane unless you are going for the pro-skin? Since I haven't seen the drawings yet purhaps you could tell me if this plane is allready fully covered in sheeting/ply? Thus giving the option to fiberglass the entire delight.
Myself was thinking to use plasic covering... I have to admit, I have only build a .60 plane before, wich by the way turned out better than I hoped for much thanks to all the help thru guys at RCU, and therefor feel undecisive in the matter. Because of this I am pretty much in new territory and perhaps in deep water with this 25% kit, but then that makes it a hole lot more exciting considering the coming learning curve.

Since I want my plane as light as possible I think I will use plastic film.

In my chase for ounces on this one I have put in an order for contest balsa to replace all the sheeting and leading edges that comes with the kit. Also, threw in a couple of 1/8" lite ply for replacing the fuz sides. I have been thinking about the turtle deck and canopy hatch construction in purpos of replace the heavy ABS plastic and opt to follow your example using thin ply (1/36" ). Eventhough 1/36" thin ply is fragil it gives me a feeling of being more residiant to ugly nicks and bruses balsa easily gets.
Also, I have been looking in my local stores for contest balsa but failed finding any as they only sell reg AAA grade. More than this, the prices in US is half of those here so there is no point shoping anywhere else than in the US unless I am buing something small.

Yup, seen the Red Bull Air Race and loving it. Fav scheme for me is the Hamilton but that is too comlicated with the Wrist watch slabbed over the side of the fuz (I guess I recently realized that I am a sucker for orange). However easier to dublicate and in my opinion a very good looking and still slightly diffrent to main stream scheme is the 2Excel.

That jet looks extremely nice with that pro-skin... [X(] I think that is out of my craftmans leauge... [&o]
Yeah, it appares that pro-skin will be lighter than regular resin balsa-sheet and covering. However, how about the structural integrity of the skin. I am not meaning in the material itself, but in the seams between the pro-skins. There is nothing joining them together...I guess one could overlap em...? Then there is the fact that you can't run it over a double curvature like leading edge and other complexed curves. I think if one is up for the task and succeed they will have one sweet plane but this is a higher school for me dude... I am about to sheet a foam core wing for the first time in my life...

I plan going for HS-5646 servos and a HS-81 on throttle.

Nauset

Hey Rate1,
Nice to see this thread waking up. I posted a question here a long time ago and never got any replies. I finally got back on here and after reading the recent posts I am getting more enthused to get back to work on my Lanier Extra. I have a few non-aeromodeling related commitments keeping me busy, (Boat, New heating system) but building season is right around the corner. I will share some pics of my project here soon. Did you get your kit yet?

Rate1

Nauset,

Good to see you joining the pack. Nope, I expect the kit to arr within 4-10 days (hopefully). Please post pics of your plane. Also please brief us where you are in your build and if you have gone another route than the instruction have called for on some items?

C.

superworm

Hi Rate1

Nothing wrong with film (except if it gets really hot out there a lot of film's bubble/wrinkle somewhat)...on the other hand its easier to effect a repair than if you get some hangar/runway rash on a painted surface.

Proskin should be available in sheet sizes big enough to do the whole surface of one side of a wing panel without any joints as you would need with Balsa covering. My Lanier Extra came as foam core wings that I will cover either with Balsa and glass/resin or with Proskin (not decided yet. The Tails I have already sheeted with balsa so they will get the glass/resin treatment. The only prob I see with Proskin is that of merging in the balsa leading edges.. Harold's solution on the big Mig was to lay a strip of (3M) masking tape along the LE on the proskin and just behind the joint with the LE strip. When sanded down, this left a very slight ridge as would occur on fullsize if there was a skin joint there. The resulting "step" would be but a couple of thous so not a big deal to the aerodynamics...especially on the big Mig. In anycase, I require the TE of the wing main box to provide a "shroud" for the ailerons. On the Tailplane, I have laminated 1/32 3ply to 1/32 balsa for the aftmost 3/4 inches (20mm or so) of the tail skins to provide this shrouding for the Elevators. The Elevator (& Rudder and Ailerons) will have rounded LE's as per scale rather than "V" shaped. Methinks I can still get a fair amount of travel of these surfaces with these shrouds in place (although my "3D" ing may be restricted). Don't forget, this is in the interests of building a near scale model...if this is not your bag then the "V" shaped control surface LE's are fine as is the use of film. mY fuselage will be mostly covered with SolarTex except for the region fwd of the cockpit which will be proskin or 1/64 ply.

No probs with the 1/32 ply on the turtle deck...it is used on my Ultimate (although not the piece that Goldberg supplied for the job). The thing to beware of is to avoid a warped piece of ply...you won't get any warpage with proskin..I guarantee it. maybe I'll use the 0.3 or the 0.4 mm for the turtle deck and if I use it on the wing skins 02 mm will be plenty strong enough. This stuff is certainly not flimsy...maybe you should e-mail Mick Reeves and ask him to mail you a sample...you won't be disappointed...it is quite rigid in itself but is easily curved...not so folded. Note that there are VERY FEW complex (double curvature) curves on an Extra...certainly not on the Wings...they are effectively "Conic" sections which the Proskin will handle with ease....except for the extreme nose of the wing LE of course.

More anon...but first a little tip when glassing wings...

The easiest position to support your wings when sanding after glassing is sitting down on an armless chair with the wings across your knees. Before you do this EMPTY ALL THE LOOSE CHANGE, HOUSEHOLD KEYS AND OTHER DETRIUS from your pockets AND DON'T WEAR PANTS WITH ZIPPERS ON THE POCKETS..they make an awful mess of the undersurface !! and you don't find that out 'til you're done!...better do it on the workbench on a piece of cellular plastic foam sheet.

See you

superworm

Oh..and, Rate1, I keep forgetting to ask you to please give my love to Agnetha if you see her...she too could have had me if she'd played her dominoes in the right order!.. Agnetha will be living just down the street from yourself ???

Cheers

Rate1

Superworm, yes she does not live far from here but I think she has lost her former glory wich translate to no loss for you.

What is the weight penalty if chosing to fiberglass the entire plane compered to regular film covering? Haven't seen the plans yet, is there lightening holes in the fuz sides that would be needed to be covered with balsa sheeting if one would consider fiberglass? I did a search and ask last night about fiberglassing and it was a true eye opener. Now I am torn inbetween and are very undecisive as ther is many benefits with glassing. Some are claiming that glassing is too heavy and so did I, but after reading how to articels it seams that is not necessary the case. Initially I went into this project with the ambition of making a very light version of this kit. Now after some more research I find that things are not as easy as it may appare. Good thing is that my kit has not even arrived so I have a fair bit of time before I have to decide.

I am uncertain about using pro-skin in all those little places like around the aileron bay and such. It appare to me that these places will be a b***h to get it right with the risk of bad joints and bare wood.

Are you worried about weight issues with your plane, do you do any major weight reductions so you can get all the scale details without becoming too heavy? What weight are you aiming to get?