Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
12-28-2005, 07:35 PM
#1
Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I really would like to build kits. More choices than ARF's; more personalization; etc. But I never liked building kits.
When I was a kid, I tried to build a Sterling Ringmaster. It was a disaster. I also remember trying to build something (don't recall the type) and using tissue paper and spraying it with water and it just warped and was a disaster. I tried to build something that had die cut wood but most of the pieces broke when trying to push them out. Waiting hours/days for glue to dry was also very frustrating.
I had no one to help me, either.
When I was in my late twenties, I built a House of Balsa ME-109. By then, there was CA glue called Hot Stuff. It made the gluing go real fast. But the caving and sanding and dust everywhere was still a majot turn off. I hated it. But I finished it, rather nicely actually, and flew it. Then I built another balsa model, and flew it. It had foam wings, so I remember I liked the speedy build. My last attempt was a Jemco PT-19. Again, just a load of poorly cut balsa IIRC and major carving/shaping/sanding/putty/ etc. I never finished it. I have only built ARF's since. And that was in 1978!
Okay, so today it seem the kit technology is way different. Laser cutting? Self aligning parts? Almost like bolt together construction? Would I enjoy building a kit from this new technology? Am I hopeless?
When I was a kid, I tried to build a Sterling Ringmaster. It was a disaster. I also remember trying to build something (don't recall the type) and using tissue paper and spraying it with water and it just warped and was a disaster. I tried to build something that had die cut wood but most of the pieces broke when trying to push them out. Waiting hours/days for glue to dry was also very frustrating.
I had no one to help me, either.
When I was in my late twenties, I built a House of Balsa ME-109. By then, there was CA glue called Hot Stuff. It made the gluing go real fast. But the caving and sanding and dust everywhere was still a majot turn off. I hated it. But I finished it, rather nicely actually, and flew it. Then I built another balsa model, and flew it. It had foam wings, so I remember I liked the speedy build. My last attempt was a Jemco PT-19. Again, just a load of poorly cut balsa IIRC and major carving/shaping/sanding/putty/ etc. I never finished it. I have only built ARF's since. And that was in 1978!
Okay, so today it seem the kit technology is way different. Laser cutting? Self aligning parts? Almost like bolt together construction? Would I enjoy building a kit from this new technology? Am I hopeless?
12-28-2005, 07:39 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I think you are alot like I am. Maybe once a year I get an itch to build a kit. 1/3 of the way through construction I am ready to call it quits. I swear I will never build a kit again. Then a year or 2 later I get the itch again. I think we are hopeless.
12-28-2005, 07:41 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I just built the SIG Somethin' Extra kit.
It's dead simple and is framed up in a few evenings...I think it's a good kit for you if you're likely to loose interest in the build.
All laser cut, great instructions, minimum of sanding required.... Go for it
It's dead simple and is framed up in a few evenings...I think it's a good kit for you if you're likely to loose interest in the build.
All laser cut, great instructions, minimum of sanding required.... Go for it
12-28-2005, 07:51 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Actually; I think that you just may have the soul of a builder.
You have just had a lot of bad experiances, which have "Turned you off."
Yet you keep coming back ... [X(]
Currently; you seem to lack the determination to see a project through difficult times- which are quite normal. You lack confidence.
The first thing that you need to do is find a simple yet nice kit. Something that is challenging - but not too difficult and once it is complete it can be held up as a symbol of accomplishment.
I would recommend a trip to a trusted builder for advice and then off to your LHS.
Now into your workshop for some quiet time - and become one with the kit.
You have just had a lot of bad experiances, which have "Turned you off."
Yet you keep coming back ... [X(]
Currently; you seem to lack the determination to see a project through difficult times- which are quite normal. You lack confidence.
The first thing that you need to do is find a simple yet nice kit. Something that is challenging - but not too difficult and once it is complete it can be held up as a symbol of accomplishment.
I would recommend a trip to a trusted builder for advice and then off to your LHS.
Now into your workshop for some quiet time - and become one with the kit.
12-28-2005, 07:57 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
If you are looking for a first quality kit with machined balsa parts which hardly anybody else out there in hobby-land can beat, check out Bruce Tharpes kits: http://www.btemodels.com/ . Thus far I've built four of his kits and the craftsmanship can't be beat. Sig, Topflight, and several others can't come close to his quality and he stands behind them a 110%.
Cheers,
Cheers,
12-28-2005, 08:35 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I think it's either in you "or" it isn't to be a good builder. I've been building for 40 years, but I have to say with these new ARF's I build maybe 2 kits a year. I also have to say the new lazer cut kits are way out in front of the older style die stamped stuff from back in the day. Pick any of the new kits and with the shrink coating now a days most anybody with a little building skill can make a nice looking model.
I say give the new kits a try, with your background in RC planes you'll have it down in no time.
I say give the new kits a try, with your background in RC planes you'll have it down in no time.
12-28-2005, 09:08 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Don't expect miracles from laser cutting. The parts are cleaner than with a dull die, but they really aren't any better than the kits cut with a sharp die.
And laser cutting dosen't mean a better fit. I say " they are cut exactly wrong" most of the time. Woods dry out differently. By the time you get your hands on a kit, it is likely at least a year old or older. During that time all of the woods in the kit have dried , ( or even absorbed ) moisture a various rates. So the laser cut stuff often needs just a little "fitting".
Even though we have been in the computor age for decades and the potential of CAD designed kits is incredible, it really hasn't happened. I have yet to see a revolution it the construction of airplane kits. They are built the same way they always have been.
I LOVE carving and shaping wood. I LOVE sanding. I LOVE getting saw dust all over me. It is the part of a kit that actually lets you create rather than construct. So, maybe you can modify your attitude about that. There are some great ARF's out there nowadays. And often these ARF's cost much less than building a similar plane. There really is no need for anyone to build if they choose not to.
We all have some building chore that we might find unappealing. You don't need to love every millisecond of the build. I haven't been in the shop for 3 weeks. I must fit a Bonanza fuselage wing saddle to the wing. I hate that. I can't stand that part. You work and work and it could alway be better. When do you stop ? It drives me nuts.
So, don't be concerned if some portion of building is unappealling. I think that is normal. You get through it. And then you have the satisfaction of having plane that is built the way you wish a plane was built and flys the way you wish it to fly. And you have a unique plane, ( if that matters). Sounds like you've been flying a while. Sooner or later you have had enough Mustangs and Extras. You want somwthing you haven't had before. Building is definitly one answer. Actually, I find that unique scale ships hold their value very well. You can fly a nice scale ship for 4 or 5 years and sell them for a good price and fly for nearly free.
And laser cutting dosen't mean a better fit. I say " they are cut exactly wrong" most of the time. Woods dry out differently. By the time you get your hands on a kit, it is likely at least a year old or older. During that time all of the woods in the kit have dried , ( or even absorbed ) moisture a various rates. So the laser cut stuff often needs just a little "fitting".
Even though we have been in the computor age for decades and the potential of CAD designed kits is incredible, it really hasn't happened. I have yet to see a revolution it the construction of airplane kits. They are built the same way they always have been.
I LOVE carving and shaping wood. I LOVE sanding. I LOVE getting saw dust all over me. It is the part of a kit that actually lets you create rather than construct. So, maybe you can modify your attitude about that. There are some great ARF's out there nowadays. And often these ARF's cost much less than building a similar plane. There really is no need for anyone to build if they choose not to.
We all have some building chore that we might find unappealing. You don't need to love every millisecond of the build. I haven't been in the shop for 3 weeks. I must fit a Bonanza fuselage wing saddle to the wing. I hate that. I can't stand that part. You work and work and it could alway be better. When do you stop ? It drives me nuts.
So, don't be concerned if some portion of building is unappealling. I think that is normal. You get through it. And then you have the satisfaction of having plane that is built the way you wish a plane was built and flys the way you wish it to fly. And you have a unique plane, ( if that matters). Sounds like you've been flying a while. Sooner or later you have had enough Mustangs and Extras. You want somwthing you haven't had before. Building is definitly one answer. Actually, I find that unique scale ships hold their value very well. You can fly a nice scale ship for 4 or 5 years and sell them for a good price and fly for nearly free.
12-29-2005, 01:11 AM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
you need to give it a few try's,sometimes when i build difficult kits i get aggravated at them and put them down for a while sometimes weeks then get back to them when I'm not mad at them anymore.you should only get better after you have built a few like learning any job.if you just get worse then you might not have the temperament for building i would stick with the arf's.i have been building kits since the 70's they were very difficult back then.the quality of cutting and most instructions that come with the kits have improved.you have to have a certain amount of like/love for building,sometimes i get burned out building and like someone else said here wait 4 or 5 months between then i will find a decent kit and get the itch.building tools make a lot of difference also.good luck
12-29-2005, 01:46 AM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I purchased an NIB 36% Katana ARF about 15 months ago and put it up on the shelf. I finally pulled it down yesterday and tried test fitting the major parts. Problems all over the place[:@]. I've got a bunch of rework including stripping recovering the poorly fitting and pre-paired wings[:@][:@].
So what you do is buy $900 ARF, no longer supported by manufacturer A, and is now being sold for $600 from manufacturer B, that requires a ton of work to make right. You'll be like me and wished you bought a Carden, or anybody's kit for that matter.
Regards,
Bart
So what you do is buy $900 ARF, no longer supported by manufacturer A, and is now being sold for $600 from manufacturer B, that requires a ton of work to make right. You'll be like me and wished you bought a Carden, or anybody's kit for that matter
.Regards,
Bart
12-29-2005, 10:54 AM
#11
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
ORIGINAL: PilotFighter
Don't expect miracles from laser cutting. The parts are cleaner than with a dull die, but they really aren't any better than the kits cut with a sharp die.
And laser cutting dosen't mean a better fit. I say " they are cut exactly wrong" most of the time. Woods dry out differently. By the time you get your hands on a kit, it is likely at least a year old or older. During that time all of the woods in the kit have dried , ( or even absorbed ) moisture a various rates. So the laser cut stuff often needs just a little "fitting".
Even though we have been in the computor age for decades and the potential of CAD designed kits is incredible, it really hasn't happened. I have yet to see a revolution it the construction of airplane kits. They are built the same way they always have been.
I LOVE carving and shaping wood. I LOVE sanding. I LOVE getting saw dust all over me. It is the part of a kit that actually lets you create rather than construct. So, maybe you can modify your attitude about that. There are some great ARF's out there nowadays. And often these ARF's cost much less than building a similar plane. There really is no need for anyone to build if they choose not to.
We all have some building chore that we might find unappealing. You don't need to love every millisecond of the build. I haven't been in the shop for 3 weeks. I must fit a Bonanza fuselage wing saddle to the wing. I hate that. I can't stand that part. You work and work and it could alway be better. When do you stop ? It drives me nuts.
So, don't be concerned if some portion of building is unappealling. I think that is normal. You get through it. And then you have the satisfaction of having plane that is built the way you wish a plane was built and flys the way you wish it to fly. And you have a unique plane, ( if that matters). Sounds like you've been flying a while. Sooner or later you have had enough Mustangs and Extras. You want somwthing you haven't had before. Building is definitly one answer. Actually, I find that unique scale ships hold their value very well. You can fly a nice scale ship for 4 or 5 years and sell them for a good price and fly for nearly free.
Don't expect miracles from laser cutting. The parts are cleaner than with a dull die, but they really aren't any better than the kits cut with a sharp die.
And laser cutting dosen't mean a better fit. I say " they are cut exactly wrong" most of the time. Woods dry out differently. By the time you get your hands on a kit, it is likely at least a year old or older. During that time all of the woods in the kit have dried , ( or even absorbed ) moisture a various rates. So the laser cut stuff often needs just a little "fitting".
Even though we have been in the computor age for decades and the potential of CAD designed kits is incredible, it really hasn't happened. I have yet to see a revolution it the construction of airplane kits. They are built the same way they always have been.
I LOVE carving and shaping wood. I LOVE sanding. I LOVE getting saw dust all over me. It is the part of a kit that actually lets you create rather than construct. So, maybe you can modify your attitude about that. There are some great ARF's out there nowadays. And often these ARF's cost much less than building a similar plane. There really is no need for anyone to build if they choose not to.
We all have some building chore that we might find unappealing. You don't need to love every millisecond of the build. I haven't been in the shop for 3 weeks. I must fit a Bonanza fuselage wing saddle to the wing. I hate that. I can't stand that part. You work and work and it could alway be better. When do you stop ? It drives me nuts.
So, don't be concerned if some portion of building is unappealling. I think that is normal. You get through it. And then you have the satisfaction of having plane that is built the way you wish a plane was built and flys the way you wish it to fly. And you have a unique plane, ( if that matters). Sounds like you've been flying a while. Sooner or later you have had enough Mustangs and Extras. You want somwthing you haven't had before. Building is definitly one answer. Actually, I find that unique scale ships hold their value very well. You can fly a nice scale ship for 4 or 5 years and sell them for a good price and fly for nearly free.
And, they fly great too...
-Todd
12-29-2005, 11:36 AM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
. Hi.... If waiting for glue to dry is a big deal... Me thinks you are in your own words “hopeless".
Some degree of PATIENCE is a prerequisite to be a content modeler. It is supposed to be fun. Some aspects are more fun than others. I love building but I hate covering…..
I think I would rather crash a plane than cover one…The only reason I would consider an arf is to avoid covering. Building is about the end result. It justifies the pain.
bert
12-29-2005, 11:59 AM
#13
RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Hi.... If waiting for glue to dry is a big deal... Me thinks you are in your own words “hopeless".
So I guess I am hopeless!
Okay, I am gonna try one of these new fangled laser cut kits and see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts, everyone!
12-29-2005, 12:15 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
A second on the recommendation to try again on something that's widely regarded to be a super kit, great cutting and kiting and modest cost........Sigs Something Extra draws my vote also. Some things that may help. Get and keep a clean, tidy and organized work area. Read your instructions thoroughly. Build on the plans. Take your time. Go stepwise and don't skip around. Take pride in doing each step well. Good easy going music. Good kit building is a lot like motorcycling, sailboating, skiing or XXX. It's not the destination, it's the journey. Relax and enjoy.
12-29-2005, 01:08 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
"Have you ever glued a model plane together with old fashioned glue instead of CA?’
You bet I have. I seldom use CA for overall construction. I prefer yellow carpenters glue. I use a glue syringe and small brush to assist in its application. If the plane is put together in segments the set up time can be worked around. I find for most areas of construction an hour or so is lots of time to for the glue to set up enough that it no longer likely to move. I sometimes use CA as a "clamp" in conjunction with the yellow.
Bert
ps ....when using a syringe if you store it between uses standing upright in a small jar of water the tip never clogs
You bet I have. I seldom use CA for overall construction. I prefer yellow carpenters glue. I use a glue syringe and small brush to assist in its application. If the plane is put together in segments the set up time can be worked around. I find for most areas of construction an hour or so is lots of time to for the glue to set up enough that it no longer likely to move. I sometimes use CA as a "clamp" in conjunction with the yellow.
Bert
ps ....when using a syringe if you store it between uses standing upright in a small jar of water the tip never clogs
12-29-2005, 01:14 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
ORIGINAL: Kmot
Have you ever glued a model plane together with old fashioned glue instead of CA? Well, waiting overnight for each little sub-assembly to dry is not my idea of fun.
So I guess I am hopeless!
Okay, I am gonna try one of these new fangled laser cut kits and see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts, everyone!
Hi.... If waiting for glue to dry is a big deal... Me thinks you are in your own words “hopeless".
So I guess I am hopeless!
Okay, I am gonna try one of these new fangled laser cut kits and see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts, everyone!
In other words, before you take on a Top Flight warbird, first build a Sig 4*, then some other kit and eventually the warbird. Some years ago, I built the 4* 60. It was the easiest building, best engineered kit I have ever built. Good design, excellent instructions, cannot be messed up unless someone were really trying to screw it up. And it flies great. And if you want to make room for the "next" project, it's not hard to find a buyer for this plane. If not a 4*, there are other kits out there that offer similar build characteristics that you may prefer.
Bottom line is, build a kit that you can find satisfaction in the final result. And then do it some more. Good luck, and happy building.
12-29-2005, 01:48 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I`ll do my best, to help.. Keep your eyes, on the swinging watch.BACK and forth, Back and forth...You are getting sleepy ,verrry ,very sleeepy.When I clap my hands, you will awake.You will strut like a Chicken ,and bark like a dog.Then,when I snap my fingers, you will think, you are a Master Model Builder, and immediately proceed, to build models,with the ease of an old PRO, that are of,Museum Quality,,,, ....CLAP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,SNAP!!
GO to it
I`ll do my best, to help.. Keep your eyes, on the swinging watch.BACK and forth, Back and forth...You are getting sleepy ,verrry ,very sleeepy.When I clap my hands, you will awake.You will strut like a Chicken ,and bark like a dog.Then,when I snap my fingers, you will think, you are a Master Model Builder, and immediately proceed, to build models,with the ease of an old PRO, that are of,Museum Quality,,,, ....CLAP,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,SNAP!!
GO to it
12-29-2005, 02:00 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
I forgot to hypnotize him,to LOVE building too..Oh well, next session .DON`t want to Fry, any brains.I guess, I should have P.Md this to Kmot..I suppose I have everyone ,clucking like Chickens now.
12-29-2005, 03:42 PM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
LOL!!!! SEE......... I can tell it`s working,already..I see you have the CHICKEN STRUT ,Down pat......NOW,LET`S hear that,,, BARK!!!
SEE......... I can tell it`s working,already..I see you have the CHICKEN STRUT ,Down pat......NOW,LET`S hear that,,, BARK!!!
12-30-2005, 02:22 AM
#22
RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
ORIGINAL: Jim Dines
Some years ago, I built the 4* 60. It was the easiest building, best engineered kit I have ever built.
Some years ago, I built the 4* 60. It was the easiest building, best engineered kit I have ever built.
Mr70ss has a lot of build photos, and that has helped me make up my mind as well as your statement. The info about the plane on Towers website sealed the deal:
All Laser-Cut Balsa and Plywood Parts
Pre-Shaped Balsa Leading and Trailing Edges
Pre-cut ailerons, elevators, and rudder
Thanks!
12-30-2005, 09:27 AM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Hello Kmot,
Sorry to hear about your problems. I enjoy the build as much or more than the flying. It is very relaxing and I use a totally different part of the brain when I build. I also plan every step out to the nth degree. I find it rewarding to cut/sand a part to fit perfectly. I buy the parts as I need them. I also modify the plans a little, but not too much. I enjoy the challenge of trying to build a strong and light aircraft. It takes me almost twice a long as others to build a plane. I am currently working on a Top Flite P-51D. I have joined a thread here and feel like I am part of a bigger build. The builds are to be enjoyed. I know I have really messed up in the past. I also now know where to turn to ask questions and have learned what not to do. There has been more than once I had to start a wing/elev/tail over again.
I do not know what to say but have the fun of the destination is the trip getting there.
Mustang
Sorry to hear about your problems. I enjoy the build as much or more than the flying. It is very relaxing and I use a totally different part of the brain when I build. I also plan every step out to the nth degree. I find it rewarding to cut/sand a part to fit perfectly. I buy the parts as I need them. I also modify the plans a little, but not too much. I enjoy the challenge of trying to build a strong and light aircraft. It takes me almost twice a long as others to build a plane. I am currently working on a Top Flite P-51D. I have joined a thread here and feel like I am part of a bigger build. The builds are to be enjoyed. I know I have really messed up in the past. I also now know where to turn to ask questions and have learned what not to do. There has been more than once I had to start a wing/elev/tail over again.
I do not know what to say but have the fun of the destination is the trip getting there.
Mustang
12-30-2005, 09:51 AM
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RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Anyone with the sense of humor to post the chicken photo has GOT to be a builder and not just an ARF assembler. I second the suggestions to go with a SIG kit or one from Bruce Tharpe, or one from Midwest - see photos below.
I have never built a House of Balsa kit, such as you mention in your original post, but every person who has ever mentioned one to me has done so in the most negative possible way. By the way, like you, I also built the Sterling Ringmaster - about 50 years ago.
I have never built a House of Balsa kit, such as you mention in your original post, but every person who has ever mentioned one to me has done so in the most negative possible way. By the way, like you, I also built the Sterling Ringmaster - about 50 years ago.
12-30-2005, 02:18 PM
#25
RE: Help me got over my dislike of building kits.
Mustang and JLN: thanks!
You know, I love to build. But I build with bolts and nuts. I also love to shape metal. I love grinding; filing; bending; polishing.
Another thing: when I did build a few balsa planes way back when, there was no internet and no forum to use with all the help that is available now. So things are looking better.
You know, I love to build. But I build with bolts and nuts. I also love to shape metal. I love grinding; filing; bending; polishing.
Another thing: when I did build a few balsa planes way back when, there was no internet and no forum to use with all the help that is available now. So things are looking better.