Kmot

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I want to go back in time. When I was a kid, I attempted to build a balsa model from a stick and tissue kit. Ambroid model airplane glue. Dope. My memory is dim, but I do recall the plane ended in the trash after I had tried to do the tissue covering thing. At the time, I had no mentors. No hobby shop close by that I could ride a bike to. No internet.

So I just bought a small, rubber band powered model airplane kit. Thanks to modern times, it is a laser cut kit. But it still came with a bag of sticks. Many of the laser cut parts fall out of the sheets but most have to still be cut out. And I am using CA glues. No more of this waiting overnight for a few stick to dry.

My big fear, however, is going to be when it is time to cover this ultra fragile airframe in the tissue. I feel I am doomed to repeat my failure from my childhood. But instead, I am asking for advice and help from you 'stick and tissue' guys to help me out. I really want to be able to build, and finish a model the old fashioned way.

I started Friday evening. By the next evening I had this much completed. A couple mistakes along the way too. I discovered that 1/16 balsa does not like 1/32 diameter straight pins. Ooops!! I had to use debonder to remove the landing gear bulkhead because I had glued it wrong. I have broken umpteen little skinny sticks and had to re-glue them. I discovered that this fragile airframe does not take to sandpaper like a .60 sized model does! Ooops again! But amazingly, it has gone from a bag of sticks and flat wood to a three dimensional object that actually looks like something.

Kmot

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Rest of the pics:

Red B.

Hi!

Stick and tissue, I love it!

If you are in need of a mentor, check out this web site:

[link=http://www.ffscale.co.uk/]Mike's flying scale model pages[/link]

There you will find all the information you need and a lot of inspiration as well.

Do read Mike's building and covering tutorial:

[link=http://www.ffscale.co.uk/comper.htm]Build your first flying scale model[/link]

Good luck!

/Red B.

Gollywock

Hi Kmot- There's a wealth of information here http://www.smallflyingarts.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl by some of the best stick and tissue people on Earth- Jim

8178

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Great thread! I built a lot of stick and tissue stuff as a kid in the 50s and really enjoyed them. Back then the selection of kits was amazing. I liked the kits that had the parts just printed and you got to cut them out. Built a few after I got into RC just for the fun of building. Still love the smell of Ambroid glue and miss picking it off my fingers during a build.

You really need to get some Ambroid to add the building experience. Not sure how the stick joints are going to sand using CA.

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

Thank you for the links! This is just what I needed!

heli_Rod

I used to fly a lot of indoor rubber powered models. Here is a link to a supplyer that has everything you can imagine for stick and tissue models. They also have a great selection of books.

http://www.timgoldstein.com/indoormo...IMSCatalog.htm

I also remember building old Comet and Guillow kits when I was a kid. I didn't have any help either. My dad knew less about it than I did...LOL.

I would still fly indoor rubber if there was a place close to fly them. [] I see the old West Badden, Indiana hotel where many world records were set for indoor models is under renovation. I doubt if models will ever get to fly there again. It's going to be casino crap now! [&o]

Enjoy your build, Kmot!

Rod

Kmot

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Another great link! Thank you, Rod!

Kmot

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I finished the construction today.

Now on to the dreaded covering. However, the tutorial on that website is just what I needed. I feel confident it will turn out okay. I need to purchase some dope and thinner.

As I finished, I noticed there were still a half-dozen sticks in the bag. Huh? I couldn't believe the mfg gave some 'extras' so I was looking to see where I had missed something. The instruction sheet was not clear. But then I looked at the photograph of the model, and saw that I had neglected to put cross braces in and sticks along the sides. I also had installed the one I thought I saw on the plans, on the inside instead of outside of the fuselage so I had to cut it out. Well anyway, I got it looking pretty much like it is supposed to I think. This has been a good learning experience so far.

bigedmustafa

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I'd recently finished constructing and flying a Guillow's Lancer kit. It tuned out ok, and I was surprised at how well it flew considering it was my first effort. Learning to apply the tissue paper was certainly a challenge, but I'm learning one simple technique when it comes to improving at this hobby. Wade in over your head and give something new your best shot; even if it goes badly, you'll learn from the experience and continue to improve.

I really got a hoot out of seeing the thing fly! I'm surprised more clubs in the snow belt don't sponsor indoor free flight events when the weather is too harsh to fly. I'm skeptical that I'd find enough like-minded flyers to organize anything, though. It took a lot more time and effort than I'd imagined to get that little Lancer kit built and flying.

papermache

My Feedback: (35)

Kmot,

The SAM site (www.antiquemodeler.org) has some good articles on building and covering. They have a very good one on tissue covering. It's in the section under "SAM Airplanes" on their home page.

Another good site for general building info is Caffeenmen's site at Airfield Models. It's a lot of good information.

You might also want to post in the Vintage & Antique forum. Lots of good S&T people over there.

Your model's looking great. Just take your time finishing it and you'll be fine. Good luck.

papermache

heli_Rod

Looks like you are coming along nicely. The structure looks really great! I love the Piper Tri-Pacer, or "flying milk stool" as it was called because of the closely spaced tall landing gear. I liked flying the full scale too. Nice planes!

Covering isn't really all that hard. Like anything else, it just takes a few trys to master. I remember having a coat of dope built up on my finger from smoothing the edges down. It seems like a finger worked better than anything else I could find...LOL. I think tissue and dope is easier to apply than monokote.

I brushed a thinned coat of clear dope onto frame work and let it dry. Then cut the tissue out slightly larger than the area to be covered. The tissue was doped through to the wood structure and I kept smoothing it down with my finger until it stuck as it dried.

I can still remember my mom yelling at me for stinking up the house with dope fumes...LOL....Geeez I can see where this is going......I may have to start building microfilm FAI's again.

The pic is me flying a Pennyplane over 20 years ago. That particular flight was 5 minutes-25 seconds in a 25 foot gym.

The other pic is of a book that is pretty much an indoor flyers building bible. I'm not sure if it's in print anymore. It is an absolute wealth of information, from FAI microfile to scale and peanut scale models. The author is Ron Williams. EXCELLENT book!

Keep us posted of your progress, Kmot. You have my interest peaked...LOL.

Rod

Kmot

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Thank you for the comments, fella's. And keep those great informational links coming!

Kmot

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This is the Jackpot!

http://www.antiquemodeler.org/Model%...ing_Guide_.htm

mclina

This looks great. I think they accidentally added some text to Step 1 from Step 19, though. They make it sound like you are doping the sheets of tissue before you start covering.

Or am I nuts?

Kmot

My Feedback: (24)

mclina: I think you are right!

Okay, I think I may have goofed up. I was reading this tutorial:

http://www.ffscale.co.uk/comp7.htm

So I got some Sig Sanding Sealer. And I went ahead and applied it. But boy oh boy, is it some thick stuff.
Now I am worried it may not sand off without breaking the fragile wood. I think the sanding sealer he uses in his tutorial is a different type.

Any recommendations? [sm=confused.gif]

heli_Rod

I think you find that sanding sealer is too thick and heavy for that type of model. I only used a low shrink clear dope on such light weight structures. Sanding sealer is used mostly on larger models, especially on silkspan or silk fabric covered ones to help fill the fabric grain. Sanding sealer adds a lot of weight since if has a lot of filler material in it.

All you need is for the dope being applied to the tissue to soften the pre-doped frame for it to stick.

Rod

Kmot

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I think it is a difference in understanding, between English terminology and American terminology. He also shows a picture of the can of sanding sealer, with the label "Sanding Sealer" clearly printed on it. But apparently, Sig's version is not the same thing.

Ah well, it will dry, be sanded lightly, and then butyrate dope applied.

Thanks,
-Tom

Gollywock

Kmot- Sanding sealer is nothing more than clear dope with a good bit of talcum powder stirred in. I've never used it to attach tissue, But I can't see where it wouldn't work. If it seems too thick, you might try thinning it. Once you've gotten everything sanded smooth, You can lay the tissue onto the airframe, shiny side out, grain running lenghtwise or spanwise and 'wick' straight thinner thru the tissue to soften the dope, smoothing it out with your finger. Good luck- Jim

Kmot

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Jim, and others: I was not not planning on using sanding sealer to apply the tissue, lol. See the linked tutorial: http://www.ffscale.co.uk/comp7.htm

This fellow seals his airframe with his version of sanding sealer. Then he sands it and applies dope. I am sure his version of sanding sealer is not the same as Sig's.

Okay, I sanded the airframe parts and got most of the SIG sanding sealer off. It actually sands down pretty easily. Then I applied regular dope. I then cut some tissue, and layed it over the part and applied 50/50 thinned dope over the previously doped airframe parts. It sticks pretty good, but I also smoothed it down and took out wrinkles using my finger. This is also described in the above linked tutorial. I did neglect to check the grain, however. I will do that for all future pieces. So far, I have the vertical fin and rudder, and the stab and elevator covered. I also covered 1/2 of one fuselage side. It is looking promising!

I then sprayed the tail feathers with a mist of water, and lightly rubbed the water so that it would soak into the tissue. Again, according to the tutorial. This was a couple hours ago. I am hoping it has shrunk and dried by now.

Kmot

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Well whaddya know! It worked!

The tissue shrank nice and tight. So now, I have trimmed off the excess, and left the raggedy edges. I think I read that they can be sanded off later. I have applied the first of two coats of 50/50 thinned dope.

*JCB*

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Lookin' good KMOT!!

Are you planning on flying this at the R.O.G. meeting?

Also where did you get the kit at and supplies at? I think i wanna build one..

Kmot

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JCB: Thanks!

I had not planned on flying this anywhere, except maybe out at Rabbit Dry Lake.

Anyway, I got it at my LHS, Smith Brothers in Northridge.

Gollywock

JCB- Penn Valley http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/ Is one of the best old time hobby shops I've found- Jim

heli_Rod

Very nice! Looks like you are getting the hang of it quickly. The only way I every got smooth trim edges was to (carefully) use new double edged razor blades. They don't last very long, but a couple of blades should do a model.

When you cover the other side of thin surfaces, like the rudder and horizontal stab, be sure the wet tissue doesn't sag down and touch the other side, especially between coats of dope. I've been there and done that! It will stick together.

Keep those photos coming!

Rod