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TF Elder 40

Old 10-13-2007, 09:49 AM
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Intruder38
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Default TF Elder 40

My Elder 40 has been built up to the covering stage where it has been for a couple of years (I came across a few other planes I wanted to build in the meantime). I had reached the point of deciding on the bracing rigging on the rear fuselage when I put it on the shelf (I think pondering that decision was a factor in my decision to build something else instead). I've decided it's time to getter done, but now I need some inputs to help me reach my decision on the rigging.

1. The instructions say to use elastic cord for the rigging. It seems to me that the cord would soak up fuel residue like a sponge. Has anyone used it or something else (fishing line, maybe)? How did it work out?

2. Is there a better way of stringing the rigging than drilling 1001 holes in the framework?

3. Does the addition of the rigging have a significant effect on balance?

I think the rigging will add a lot to the looks of the finished product, but I don't think it is mandatory if there are too many drawbacks.

I would appreciate some pros and cons from anyone who has built one of these kits.

Thanks in advance for your help.
Old 10-24-2007, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I am currently building this kit and have decided to use some sort of wire rigging. I agree that the elastic cord will probably soak up fuel residue. I am not sure if I want to use it, but it should be easy to re rig it once a year or so.. also, you shouldnt have to drill holes all through the fuse. just the holes in the basswood blocks in the wing. What I am going to do to rig the back is to use short pieces of a pushrod tube glued into place to run the wire through.. Hope this helps
Old 10-24-2007, 03:01 PM
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Don41
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I plan to use the elastic rigging as suggested however I won't bother with rigging on the bottom of the fuselage. I'll have to find another attachment method though since I have developed an extreme allergy to CA glue.

I can't believe the rigging would have any noticeable effect on the balance or flite.

I didn't like the look of those large push rods so I went with the usual nylon push rods painted to match the open framework. A couple of hard points half way down the exposed area and at the tail were added to stiffen the housing. These additions seem to blend in fairly well with the look of the framework.

Those TopFlite wire wheels were high on my list however I'm getting a little impatient with TopFlite. First the site said mid Oct then late Nov then late Oct now it's back to late Nov. Maybe they should just say when they're here they're here (:-).

Anyone have an alternate wheel they intend to use? Four inch diameter seems a little big to me.
Old 10-25-2007, 03:27 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

Thanks for the replies. I don't have any concerns with the wing rigging; as you said it just involves the implanted blocks. My concern is the cross-rigging in the open section of the fuselage. It would look neat, but I suspect that it will be a pain to make it work. That's why I was hoping one of our compatriots had already taken that route.

I agree with the comment about the pushrods. I had planned to paint them the same color as the framework and let it go at that. Now the idea of swapping them out for nyrod or such is intiguing. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Old 10-26-2007, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

haha.. I didnt mean to use platic pushrods, but you got a good idea out of it!!!!! what i ws talking about is to cut i 1/16 of an inch pieces of pushrod tubing and glue on the inside of the fuse on the top and bottom, then run the wire or nylon cord through it, without having to drill 1000 holes through the fuse. If this doesent clear things up, ill try again
Old 10-26-2007, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

aglaser,

AHA! The light bulb just went on (all I really needed to do was read your response). That is an intriguing idea. Glad I thought of it. When I get back from seeing my new grandson (end of November) I will take a hard look at that approach. It sure sounds better than trying to get a drill into the corners. Thanks for the idea (and the clarification).
Old 10-31-2007, 03:16 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I'm just about ready to cover my Elder 40. Years ago I built an Elder 20, and wired the fuselage with black thread by epoxying 1/4" lengths of 1/16" brass tubing in the corners. The thread was barely visible. I've ordered some Proctor rigging cable this time.
Old 11-01-2007, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

Nickj,
Please post your progress on the rigging, with a picture or two if possible. I am still concerned about adding weight in the rear. I probably will do everything (covering, rigging, etc.) except painting and rigging the aft fuselage. That way, I can be a little more certain of the weight and balance situation before I proceed. At the moment, I am leaning toward small diameter plastic tubing glued in the corners as a lighter weight alternative to the brass. I have to tell you; it is tough sitting on the fence like I am. Sooner or later I'll have to take the step.
Old 11-01-2007, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I wouldn't be concerned about the weight, it won't even be noticed by the plane.
Old 11-01-2007, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I'm not quite at the rigging stage, but I'll be sure to post pictures of my progress. I just completed the forward wing fairing and soldered up the MLG last night, so the frame is rolling and ready to cover. I was thinking about rigging the wires before covering and snapping a few photos, but that seems like an excessive amount of work so I think I'll just start covering this weekend.
Old 11-01-2007, 02:49 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

For what it's worth, I think you have convinced me to take my Elder down for the rafters and get to finishing it up. All my building is (and has been for a couple of years) done awaiting covering and final assembly. I'll put the 4*60 kit back in the box for a while. By the way, I didn't care for the sharp edge in the cowl so I added a ring of 1/4-inch balsa and rounded it off for a more (IMHO) finished appearance. I like the way it looks, too (not an everyday occurance when I decide to depart from the plans). I have a NIB OS-52FS ready for the powerplant; hope that pulls it around OK. And, after careful consideration (and watching a few of my clubmates struggling with tailskids at our field), I think I am going to scrap the skid for a steerable tailwheel. Appreciate any comments you may have.
Old 11-01-2007, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I agree, I am about to do the same thing to my cowl and for the same reason. I too am fitting a small tail wheel.

I plan to add plywood stiffeners at the wing tip, a 1/4' wide piece laminated to the balsa should do it. For power I have a Saito 56 mounted and have no doubt it'll drag the little beast around the sky at a good clip.

BTW: Sig Mfg has the Williams pilot, MG and ammo belt mentioned in the kit. I substituted the Parabellum MG though.
Old 11-01-2007, 03:26 PM
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Intruder38
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

WOW! Some time ago I posted some questions/comments about the Elder and came up empty. Guess interest in the Elder wasn't too intense at that particular time. Now look at us. I have to admit, common interest does bring back the urge to be at it; I have been staring at that infamous "wall" for a while now. Thanks, fellas, for kindling the spark again. I will have to learn how to post pictures so maybe we can compare notes.
Old 11-01-2007, 05:14 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

Just in case you've overlooked the engine length be sure to check it before you get too far along. I could only get about 1/8 and still feel comfy with the prop.

Don
Old 11-02-2007, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

Don,
It was so long ago that I added the cowl piece that I can't be 100% sure, but I think I did check the prop clearance (at least, I hope I did). Your point is certainly a good one and if I overlooked that little detail, out comes the sanding stick ... again.
Old 11-03-2007, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

Great idea about the cowl--wish I'd thought of it. Guess I'll live with the sharp edge. I went with the tailwheel also. The skid looks cool, but I'm too lazy to chase after the plane every flight.

Anyway, here's a few pictures of the completed airframe. I just realized I still have to cut out the cockpit, but other than that it's ready to cover. Not sure about a covering scheme yet, but I bought creme and blue 21st Century fabric for the job.
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

Nickj,
Your build looks good. I've built quite a few planes (to replace the ones I've re-kitted) and this was about the most enjoyable although I'm not really sure why; just felt good. A couple of observations if I might:
1. I hopr you haven't glued the pylon assembly in place yet; if you have the covering will be a challenge.
2. When you cut out the cockpit area, be careful when you handle the wing. The edge of the cutout is fragile and very susceptible to "Hangar Rash". I am considering gluing a doubler around the underside to add a little rigidity.

And now a question: As I was bringing the plane back to the bench to restart my work on it, I began to wonder about the wing center rib joint. In most of my prior builds, I have always laid on a strip of fiberglass cloth to strengthen the joint. In this case it might prove to be a bit troublesome, but certainly could be done if required. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Old 11-04-2007, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

It won't help you now but when I built the plane I replaced the flimsy, super thin piece of plywood they supplied with a much thicker piece and I beefed up the spars where they meet in the middle by laminating them with left over pieces of spar.

I've always gone out of my way to avoid the glassing procedure (I just don't like it) but if you are planning to do any serious maneuvering I think I'd glass it.
Old 11-04-2007, 11:12 AM
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Intruder38
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

The only serious maneuvering I do is purely unintentional. That's why I always have a space to hang my latest build. My goal has always been to approach scale flying. The double wifferdills and such have always been the result of dumb thumbs or lack of attention. In all liklihood I will skip the glass this time because I can't imagine flying the Elder any way but slowly in a dignified manner.
Old 11-04-2007, 11:38 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

A man after my own heart. I won't run out and buy a motor that's too small but when the opportunity pops up my brother and I will deliberately underpower a plane. He still has a trainer that uses a LOT of runway getting airborne but flies just fine once up to speed.

I know you can just throttle back but somehow it's just not the same thing (:-)

You're right about the Elder,, it doesn't seem appropriate to be doing aerobatics.

Old 11-04-2007, 09:28 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I'm not glassing the center, either. On the other hand I didn't like cutting into a perfectly good wing. I decided to line the cockpit with scrap balsa to reinforce the cockpit ridge. Looks better, too, and I can paint and seal it with thinned epoxy after the wing is covered.

Top Flite calls the plane an areobatic sport model, so I expect to be able to do at least a few maneuvers without worrying about the wing folding up. But I agree it's going to be mostly a slow, lazy performer--exactly what I'm looking for.

BTW, as you can see from the picture, the kingpost isn't yet glued to the wing. Although it's certainly not beyond my meager building skills to do something dumb like that.
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Old 11-05-2007, 12:44 AM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I too lined the cockpit area after I cut in the cockpit. At the time it was just trying to block the opening into the wing but it had the added benefit of bracing the area as well.

Old 11-05-2007, 02:04 PM
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Default RE: TF Elder 40

I did install a control panel of sorts, but did not line the cockpit. SOunds like a good idea and I'll add it to my "To Do" list. Good communicating with you guys.

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