I am wondering about what to use for tracing templates for my first kit, a Sig 4*60. I am using SeeTemp to make Templates of all the parts, but I also want to trace them onto some kind of paper. I do have access to newsprint, but am thinking this is too thin. How about brown Kraft paper, like grocery bags are made of? The one thing I am really not sure about is what to use to trace the parts. Pencil, Pen, or an ultra fine point Sharpie are three that I am thinking of using, but I don't know what will stand up for a few years, without fading. I know that doing both( the SeeTemp and paper) is redundant, but it sure can't hurt.

You want good durable templates? Use 32 nd ply. A little expensive but very good for long term use.

Vince

IMO (and personal experience) brown wrapping paper sucks. Too much grain - too course. Very difficult to get a good "line". Sharpies (thin included) bleed everywhere. I like freezer paper. It's going to last. One side is waxy and the other side is a fairly nice bond type paper. You could always trace-n-scan to preserve the images digitally. Guarantee that light, temp, moisture or varmints won't affect the digital ink. Finding a printer that can recreate the plans is fairly simple. I picked up an Epson Stylus 1280 that can print 13x44 on 100' rolls. Printer & 2 rolls cost $140 thru Craigslist. Just a thought.

I second SeamusG's recomendations.

I was at my daughters for our grandaughter's 3rd birthday over the weekend. They dragged out an Easel for her to paint on. There was a roll of white paper, really nice finish on it. It was about 24" wide. I've got to find out where to get the replacement paper, but I'm guessing a lot of kids stores as well as teacher supplys would have it or something close. It was a shiny finish so the water colors didn't run at all.

SeamusG, a correction on the length of the printout on your printter. The 44" was the orginal spec, but the latest drivers will print out to something like 228 inches. Get the lates drivers from Epson and have fun.

Don

228"???? I ain't got "nuthin" THAT long! Just ask my Ex.

Thx for the heads up.

try using plain old simple oak tag, about 45 cents a sheet..light thin pressed cardboard, perfect for tracing on, cutting apart with scissors..and cheap.

Heck you buy it at walmart,craft stores..I even think the grocery store has it....24 by 30 I think?

There are two approaches to templates. The first is to make a hard pattern that you can trace onto balsa and then cut to the trace line. It isn't all that accurate because, as pointed out before. the ink will bleed and finding the lines isn't very easy. You have the width of the pin or pencil that you trace the part to the paper or material you are going to make the template from. Then you have the same issue transfering from the template to the wood.

The other is to make a set of patterns in a CADprogram and lay out a set of parts on 3x36 sheets so you can print them out and use 3M 77 spray on the print out, align it to the balsa or other wood and stick it down. You cut and sand to the fine line and you end up with parts that are as accurate as laser cut parts as long as you quit sanding when you hit the line. You peal the left over paper off and you have a clean set of parts. The last time I cut a wing using this method, I stacked the ribs together and all 20 some of them lookes like they had been block sanded to shape. Each was individually sanded to the printed line. It's quick and easy, and can be accomplished with about any CADprogram, including the free ones. The key is the printer. Most software will limit the size of the "pages" to what the printer can print. Usually 8.5" x 11" or the metric equivlant. Some printers can print "Legal" size which is a little longer. The printer like SeamusG and I have can print out three sheets of balsa equivlant wide, including 4" sheets and easly 36" long. It just opens up a whole new world for making parts.

Storage is easy alsoas it is just a small computer file, not a stack of stuff you have to keep from bending or breaking and keep together in a file drawer somewhere so it doesn't get seperated. It doesn't get bent or go musshy if it gets a bit of humidity. The ink doesn't run.

It works for me, it maynot for you.

Don

See Temp is great stuff and I use it for my more high end plans building. No reason for it on some of the smaller kits. I have also gotten 1/16 thick chip board {card Board} for free at Costco, it's the stuff on the bottom of there pallets. For most planes I just use standard bond paper or butcher paper. You can get the different rolls of paper from most any print shop that is using a web press, they will give you the end rolls for free.

Gene. The pattern on the floor between the two sheets is what I'm seeingas a filterout of my right eye since Thursday. It's slightly better now, but I'm still a bit away from wanting to fly. At least I can drive OK and see the PC and read a newspaper.You wouldn't realize how many times I have cleaned my glasses since the onset of this. Not once did it help though.

Don

If you want a cheap material that holds up just as well, you can buy a thin sheet of tempered masonite. It is very affordable and great for cutting out wing rib templates and other things you want patterns for.

There isn't any reason to be making templates out of anything better then bond paper unless you plan on making several of one plane. I made a total of 8 Up-Roars when I was into fun fly events so I had them made out of chip board {card Board}. I made a couple of smaller Fokker D-VIIs and did the same thing. Using bond paper like I showed in the photo is a good way to go. If I need to rebuild anything I have them, if someone needs a set I can take them over to Kinko's and have a copy made and fold them up and send them in an envelope. If a kit is no longer made I can go to Kinko's and have the plans, templates and instructions made and share or trade with friends. I make a template with every part in the kit and lable the wood type and size so it's easy to cut your own kit. See the thinking behind templates on bond paper/ butcher paper.
Don, I was cleaning my glasses twice a day to no effect!! All I did was scratched them to the point they were throw aways. I went to the Race Sunday and had to drive after dark, that was a cheap thrill!!!!!![X(] For someone that hates to drive getting out of the parking lot at the track was total HEEEEEELL!! Took 3.5 hours for the drivers to run the 400 miles, took us 3.5 hours to get out of the track!! No BS, long story, longer day!!
Gene

Thanks very much for all the input. I have never seen the printer that you mentioned, but I am going to go looking soon. Another question though. What do you have for a scanner? I do have one, but it, like our printer is limited to 8.5 X 11 inch sheets. Do you take your paper templates to someone to get scanned?

Thanks

Yes but only if I am sending them to someone. I roll them up with the plans when I'm finished with the plane I'm building and just leave them there until I need them. I can cut out the parts I need, draw it out on the wood I'm using if I'm just making repairs then when done I just staple that part back on the sheet for future use. When I'm building from builders plans {scratch} then I always have an extra set of plans copied at Kinkos, cut the copies as templates and store the original plans for the future. EXCEPT the one plane I really want to build again!!! I didn't bother with the copies, I just went with the plans, cut them up and built over them. Now it's the future and I don't have them any more, I have to buy a new set of plans!!! That's the only plane I didn't make copies of the plans for!!!

Most scanners will handle legal size paper. 8.5 x 13(?). To get a scan larger than that, requires a mega bucks scanner. I've been kicking myself for the last four years. There was a garage sale on the next street and a guy had a big blueprint scanner that he was offering for free. It would handle at least 48" width and I guess a long as you could stuff into it. At the time, I didn't have a need, and a friend of mine was in the business of doing comerical HVAC blueprints for the building contractors. He was in a slow time and couldn't afford to drive the 200 miles down and back plus renting a trailer to haul it on. It was BIG. The little devil on my shoulder told me to take it and I would find a use. The guy on the other shoulder told me to forget it, I already had a garage full of stuff. Ishould have listened to the devil this time. That model was selling on Ebay for around $3500 at the time, used.

Anyway, back to the question at hand. Most blueprint shops will scan in aplan for you, but some will balk if it is a copyrightedplan. Ihad aGP Supper Aeromaster kit and I wanted a working set of plans, holding the orginalsfor later if Ineeded to rebuild. Isent GP a note asking if they would OKthe copy and they had no trouble with it as long as it was for the backup purposes I stated. My blueprint shop had no problem making a copy of that plane with the note fromGreat Planes. Itreally depends on what you want to do with the plans after you have them scanned. A simple copy will give you a set of cutup plans thatyou can use for templates. You have to be very carefull, or make the outfit making the copy for you toensure that plansare to scale. It is a good idea todraw a ruler on both the x and y of the plans, on oposing corners. This will tell you that theoutput is a 1 to 1 repo, not a1 ot 98% repo. Large plans will skew goingthrough the coppier at times. Make sure the long lines on the plan are straight.

If you are going to use the scan for apattern for a CADprogram, highly recomended, thenget thescan to adigital format that your CAD software can use.Iuse Rhino 3D V4 It will take a Jpg, Tiff, or a Bitmap format file for the wall paper. There are a couple others, but I don't know the programs they are from and so I stick with thouse, usually a JPGformat. Get your scan into one of these formats and it should be OK. You can use it as wall paper on the drawing program and plot points to turn it into a usable drawing. It is usually a lot of work. There isn't an "Easy Button" on this one. It's going to takesome work, and there is asteep learning curve involved.

Most 60 size planes canhave the individual parts scanned inon a standard scanner. Ican scan the ribs from a 4*60 with a little room to spare. Figure a 12"scan as your maximum. You can build up a wing planthat will print out on the Epson 1280with no problems. A 13" cord is a big wing. A 13" high by however long fuselage is also a big plane, I've go two 33% planesthat I can fit on a a 13" wide paper for plans ortemplates. The long fuselage sides will requirearoll feed printer fortemplates, and you may have to draw them in the Cad program vs just from ascan. It isn't hard to do. Itjust takes some practice learning your software.

I've not looked over on the Scratch building, Aircraft design, 3d/Cadforum lately, but IfI remember correctly, there are some good sticky notesand some good threads on this subject.

Don

I had one person at Kinko's that wouldn't copy my MAN plans due to the copyright on the header, I cut that out and everyone was fine with it after that!!?? As for getting templates copied, no problems, you were the one to draw them and there is no copyright on the bond paper. If you want plans copied just cut out the header. All the plans I have had copied I only had that problem the one time. I have also had instructions copied, I just remove the staples and the people have never questioned having them copied?