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Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 Brotherhood.

Old 06-02-2021, 02:36 PM
  #2351  
got2retire
 
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acdii,

Good to hear back...

Have you flown the Liberty Sport, and what are your thoughts. Yours is Gorgeous..

I guess I've got my decision. Lots of Ultimate's, Never seen a Liberty Sport at the field. Building is my main aspect of the hobby, flying is second but none are hanger queens..

Keep you posted....

Tom
Old 06-03-2021, 05:47 AM
  #2352  
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Haven't flown it yet, finished it last October, and weather hasn't been kind.
Old 06-04-2021, 04:52 AM
  #2353  
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Boy, don't I know...Rain or wind or both...

To add to the aforementioned weather restrictions, I live in Malvern, Pa. So you say "so what?.

President Biden's home is in northern Delaware, and when he comes home the FAA issues a "TFR" / Temporary Flight Restriction. The TFR is a circle extending 25 miles out and restricts any flying within that circle. Both our club, "Valley Forge Signal Seekers" and a private field we use is within that 25 mile restriction.

Oh well, I've vented. Just more building time in the basement....

Tom

Old 06-27-2021, 04:43 PM
  #2354  
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Default Cumulus Granite - radio failure killed my Ultimate

Today I took the Ultimate out for only my second flight of her. Everything checked in preflight. Engine was strong (Saito 150) and controls normal. Taxi around ok. Takeoff run straight and true - liftoff perfect. On my first turn after takeoff I noticed sluggishness in response. I turned downwind and intended to land. Then the nose started to dip, and no response from elevator input. Chopped throttle and I think I heard it cut - down it went. Crunch. When I got to it it appeared to have impacted right side up but nose down. Fuse broke in front of cockpit but wings both survived. When I got back to the line and my Tx, I tried the controls - all working. Mystery.
Old 06-28-2021, 09:03 AM
  #2355  
jescardin
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Sad to hear that!
Check battery and/or power system; if using a BEC, perhaps it is not powerfull enough or even it might interfere with receiver electronics (even in 2.4Ghz!)
Old 06-28-2021, 09:18 AM
  #2356  
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Appreciate that. The batteries were less than 6 months old, and I had cycled them recently and got over 2100 mah out of them. Still well within performance expectations of them, under load. Power is (or was) Saito 150, nitro, so no BEC used. I am suspecting my 2.4 module/link as an issue. Although I had a good range check in accordance with the manufacturer's procedure, I believe the antenna orientation may have had an impact on the signal. My radio has a 2.4ghz module in place of the regular 72mhz module. I've not had problems with it before, but have, on rare occasion, noticed that when the antenna is pointed directly at the plane, I would, again rarely, experience some "glitchyness" or momentary loss of signal - or that's what it felt like. Have never been able to duplicate it on purpose. I may do some experimentation with this set up on an old trainer I have -
Here's the short video of the mishap: =AZWlLKHDh8mGHgKFSWMZ26xKyGZPBE64IlvSylBqLoCHYR0CP Rcai3ZnUpOpmEVXJgVpHymDQEQkxIrmKQWhAr_LZAapkCpQrgb WCpT3LTZwlPV4DRsZgGJltYA9bmuED5inqYx4Eq4bFTZfT04an uS65Q3orvIQSczgf4Xhoz-8zQI19kTL5PAP3ijxQxeTuNQ&__tn__=-UK-R]Ultimate Takeoff and Crash


The "Before" photo

The "After" photo of the remains. Landed flat with wings off, but intact. Fuse broke just forward of the cabanes at the firewall.

Last edited by Navy_Flyer; 06-28-2021 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 06-28-2021, 09:32 AM
  #2357  
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Originally Posted by Navy_Flyer View Post

The "Before" photo

The "After" photo of the remains. Landed flat with wings off, but intact. Fuse broke just forward of the cockpit.
Appreciate that. The batteries were less than 6 months old, and I had cycled them recently and got over 2100 mah out of them. Still well within performance expectations of them, under load. Power is (or was) Saito 150, nitro, so no BEC used. I am suspecting my 2.4 module/link as an issue. Although I had a good range check in accordance with the manufacturer's procedure, I believe the antenna orientation may have had an impact on the signal. My radio has a 2.4ghz module in place of the regular 72mhz module. I've not had problems with it before, but have, on rare occasion, noticed that when the antenna is pointed directly at the plane, I would, again rarely, experience some "glitchyness" or momentary loss of signal - or that's what it felt like. Have never been able to duplicate it on purpose. I may do some experimentation with this set up on an old trainer I have -

Don't point the antenna at the receiver. More than likely that can cause a LOS. Imagine a donut, thats your radio signal. Put the antenna in the "hole" of the donut sticking straight up. the signal is great anywhere in the donut, but fades drastically at the top or bottom of the hole. You want the side of the antenna facing the plane at all times, which is why 2.4 antennas have joints and can swivel. In all cases you want the 2.4 antenna tip pointing straight up. The way you described the flight is a perfect case of Loss of Signal. It is kind of strange the Ultimate was affected, but a lot also depends on how you have the receivers antenna(s) oriented too. If it has two, one should be vertical, the other horizontal to provide maximum reception. 72Mhz have the very long string antenna, and work quite different from 2.4, and antenna orientation is pretty much irrelevant. 2.4 uses tight beam patterns so antenna orientation is critical to get the best reception.

Looks like you have an easy repair, have it back up in no time. Imagine a 53 pound, 16 foot WS Rascal with radio issues. Now THAT was scary.
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Old 06-28-2021, 10:44 AM
  #2358  
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Navy_Flier I see your Ultimate is the RTF version, just like mine! I also notice that your radio is a Futaba Field Force 7, of which I also own one (mine is T7UAP Super) updated to 2.4Ghz with an original Futaba S-FHSS 2.4Ghz module.

Please, read carefully "acdii" spot on explanation. In fact I would only add that if your module accepts pointing the antenna staright down to the floor, that is the best position. If not possible, straight up as suggested by "acdii" (but you must avoid flying overhead!) or folded to one side are the best options.

My comment on the BEC is not related to the power systems as BECs are offered aside electronic speed controls (many call them U-BECs) as a receiver/servos power system, so you may use a 2S Li-Fe or Li-Po pack as battery but the BEC powers with selectable 5,0 or 6,0 volts. Main problem is many, many such BECs are offered with very interesting current capabilities that, simply, they do nor met.

It is a very good idea to gain experience on the 2.4Ghz technology and capabilities with the old trainer and sincerely hope you decide repairing the Ultimate!
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acdii (06-28-2021)
Old 07-08-2021, 10:27 AM
  #2359  
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It took 10 years, but I finally cracked the kit and built her over the winter

OS GT22 powered.

Flew perfectly from minute 1.... as they all seem to. She is a little nose heavy so we are swapping to smaller batteries from the 5000mah ones I started with.

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Old 07-08-2021, 10:31 AM
  #2360  
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If you don't like the phaeton ( FWIW... blasphemy ) you likely won't like the aeromaster or the liberty sport in terms of how they fly....

The ultimate is the best flying of the bunch... P6E/libertysport/skybolt will be the hardest to build but great planes once done.....good luck!

Old 07-08-2021, 10:47 AM
  #2361  
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What scale is the CG kit? I want to upsize it to use a 100CC engine. Unless someone knows of plans for 100CC size. It also looks like Seagull has an ARF version which looks a lot like the CG version. I agree this is a nice flying plane, as long as the engine is running.
Old 07-08-2021, 11:00 AM
  #2362  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
What scale is the CG kit? I want to upsize it to use a 100CC engine. Unless someone knows of plans for 100CC size. It also looks like Seagull has an ARF version which looks a lot like the CG version. I agree this is a nice flying plane, as long as the engine is running.
This is true of all biplanes :-)
Old 07-08-2021, 11:07 AM
  #2363  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
What scale is the CG kit? I want to upsize it to use a 100CC engine. Unless someone knows of plans for 100CC size. It also looks like Seagull has an ARF version which looks a lot like the CG version. I agree this is a nice flying plane, as long as the engine is running.
Real Ultimate 10 Dash wingspan: 19 ft 6 in (from Wikipedia)
Carl Goldberg Ultimate 10-300 wingspan: 54 in (Scale calculation: 234/54 = 4.33, then scale is 1:4.33)
For a 100cc ize engine you should go to 1:3 scale (78 in wingspan), but you shouldn´t simply upsise the plans as sure some reinforcements and solutions are not adequate for a such large version.

Best Regards.

Old 07-09-2021, 10:03 AM
  #2364  
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Originally Posted by acdii View Post
What scale is the CG kit? I want to upsize it to use a 100CC engine. Unless someone knows of plans for 100CC size. It also looks like Seagull has an ARF version which looks a lot like the CG version. I agree this is a nice flying plane, as long as the engine is running.
Precision Cut Kits sells plans for a 77" Pro-Line aerobatic plane that supposedly takes a 4.2 til 6.4 size engine which I believe will fit a 100CC?
https://precisioncutkits.com/product...s-77-plan-set/

Just be aware that I've read that the Pro-Line build on the heavy side if you follow the plans.

You could also check with Devin York via ULIMATE BIPLANE He has various plans available, including the Bob Godfrey Ultimate which is pretty scale at 70 1/2". Takes a 3.0 to 5.8 size engine. He can also provide a lot of reference photos if you want to go real scale, or provide the full size plan if you have and money tree in the garden and a PPL license

EMHW (emhw.de) sells a 73" that takes a 50CC engine, but also have larger a 84" suited for a 100CC. These build light. Only problem is that they can't deliver the kits at the moment due to problem getting hold of large balsa sheets. I've been waiting for the 73" kit since December 2019. Latest news is that they might be able to deliver sometime this autumn/winter.

- Thomas
Old 07-09-2021, 10:46 AM
  #2365  
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As I sit here and look at that plan, I face palmed myself. I already have the plans, I just need to upscale them. I have a 42" wide printer to print them out on. DOH! Since the wings are full symmetrical without taper, I just need one side view of the rib to make the entire set. I also have a friend with one of the large 120-150cc arf Ultimates that I can look at to get an idea on how to make the parts and build it. Now that I have an idea of the wingspan, enlarging the plans will be simple. The trick will be fitting long parts on my laser for cutting. I will need to get the passthrough settings just right.
Old 07-13-2021, 01:56 PM
  #2366  
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I may get blasted for this but the 100cc Mamba from Flex Innovations is an incredible airframe. I am not a Ultimate hater. I've owned several of the 54" over the last 20 years. It's a great sport plane but just cant compare.

David
Old 07-16-2021, 03:44 AM
  #2367  
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Anyone know where I can get or have made a canopy for a Goldberg Ultimate 10-300?
Old 07-16-2021, 05:11 AM
  #2368  
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Originally Posted by got2retire View Post
Anyone know where I can get or have made a canopy for a Goldberg Ultimate 10-300?
If you're in the US, you can order it from Fiberglass Specialties
Old 09-15-2021, 07:24 PM
  #2369  
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Default Dle 20???

So i'm putting a DLE 20 on mine. Should i mount it sideways or upside down.
Old 09-16-2021, 06:00 AM
  #2370  
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Inverted for sure. The cowl will be much easier to fit and the exhaust will point down not to the side.

David
Old 09-16-2021, 01:49 PM
  #2371  
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Default Rekitted ! Doh!

So I maidened my ship. Saito 125. Great first flight! Not much trim adjustment needed. Greaser landing. Cleaned up and went home. Checked everything tight and secure.
Next trip to the field all ready to go. Smooth takeoff and climbing turn to downwind. Then… wing wag, pitch up and down. No control. I chop throttle and it goes in.
The post-Mortem didn’t reveal anything - all working. Took pieces home. Tried radio again and I noticed if I turned a certain way radio would act squirrelly or not at all. What I noticed was my 2.4 antenna when pointing right at plane - bad. Lesson learned. I ordered a new Seagull Ultimate. Should be here by end of the month.
Old 09-17-2021, 10:22 AM
  #2372  
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Originally Posted by Navy_Flyer View Post
So I maidened my ship. Saito 125. Great first flight! Not much trim adjustment needed. Greaser landing. Cleaned up and went home. Checked everything tight and secure.
Next trip to the field all ready to go. Smooth takeoff and climbing turn to downwind. Then… wing wag, pitch up and down. No control. I chop throttle and it goes in.
The post-Mortem didn’t reveal anything - all working. Took pieces home. Tried radio again and I noticed if I turned a certain way radio would act squirrelly or not at all. What I noticed was my 2.4 antenna when pointing right at plane - bad. Lesson learned. I ordered a new Seagull Ultimate. Should be here by end of the month.
Sorry the maiden after repairs went so bad. At least you now know the equipment limitations, but what a hard way to learn!
Old 09-17-2021, 11:08 AM
  #2373  
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Originally Posted by jescardin View Post
Navy_Flier I see your Ultimate is the RTF version, just like mine! I also notice that your radio is a Futaba Field Force 7, of which I also own one (mine is T7UAP Super) updated to 2.4Ghz with an original Futaba S-FHSS 2.4Ghz module.

Please, read carefully "acdii" spot on explanation. In fact I would only add that if your module accepts pointing the antenna staright down to the floor, that is the best position. If not possible, straight up as suggested by "acdii" (but you must avoid flying overhead!) or folded to one side are the best options.

My comment on the BEC is not related to the power systems as BECs are offered aside electronic speed controls (many call them U-BECs) as a receiver/servos power system, so you may use a 2S Li-Fe or Li-Po pack as battery but the BEC powers with selectable 5,0 or 6,0 volts. Main problem is many, many such BECs are offered with very interesting current capabilities that, simply, they do nor met.

It is a very good idea to gain experience on the 2.4Ghz technology and capabilities with the old trainer and sincerely hope you decide repairing the Ultimate!
My radio is a 1992 Futaba 7UAFS (Super). I converted it from 72mHz to 2.4 with a module and new receiver. Used in other aircraft without any issues.

Old 09-21-2021, 10:31 AM
  #2374  
Jim Oliver
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Been away for a while but recently working on the Goldberg Ultimate ARF that I got a few years ago. Saito 150, JR 2.4.

Should be ready for a check ride in a few more days.

Jim
Old 09-21-2021, 11:27 AM
  #2375  
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Originally Posted by Navy_Flyer View Post
So I maidened my ship. Saito 125. Great first flight! Not much trim adjustment needed. Greaser landing. Cleaned up and went home. Checked everything tight and secure.
Next trip to the field all ready to go. Smooth takeoff and climbing turn to downwind. Then… wing wag, pitch up and down. No control. I chop throttle and it goes in.
The post-Mortem didn’t reveal anything - all working. Took pieces home. Tried radio again and I noticed if I turned a certain way radio would act squirrelly or not at all. What I noticed was my 2.4 antenna when pointing right at plane - bad. Lesson learned. I ordered a new Seagull Ultimate. Should be here by end of the month.
Yeah, they don't fly well without power and a tail wind. Been there, done that. Where did you find an in stock Seagull Ultimate? SIG said they wont be in until November.

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