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LT-40 Kit questions?
G'day all.
I am in the proccess of chasing up some tools and starting to look at things like coverings for my LT-40 kit. I ordered a few bits and peices from Tower Hobbies the other day and am waiting for them to arrive down under but am still undecided on 3 main things. 1 - Type of covering to use? 2 - What engine to put in it? 3 - What radio to get? I haven't started the build yet and don't plan on doing so until I can get down to a local club and shoot a few questions about but it would help if I can go loaded with a bit of info so I know what to ask. (If you haven't guessed yet, I am a begginer who hasn't flown a plane yet other than on my RF G4.5 Sim) The problem I have here, is the availability of "affordable" products. For example - A two metre roll of Solartex is about $40. I had to order my own SIG kits in because no one here sells them? So I might have to look at getting some of this stuff from the USagain. Ideally I would like to get at least the covering locally in case I need a bit extra here or there! Anyway, at the moment I was thinking about using Solartex for covering, OS 46AX or 55AX for the powerplant and maybe an Aurora 9 as my radio gear! I plan on building a Mid Star 40 (which I have waiting in the box too) after I finish the LT-40 so I would also like to try and utilise any left over covering and maybe the same engine etc if I can. Any comments or suggestions will be muchly appreciated. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Glad to hear you purchased a kit and have decided to build. Welcome to the hobby! Fine idea about visiting a club to get some input.
The LT 40 is a great trainer and then some. You've made a good choice. As for the engine, either the AX .46 or .55 is a good choice. The .46 will certainly fly her well probably using an 11x6 prop. The .55 is a little much but turning a 12x6 would keep the speed manageable while giving you the added power if you ever decided to add floats. I'm assuming you're flying at sea level so I'd go with the .46. Solartex is a great product, very easy to work with but somewhat expensive....as you mentioned. It has a nice fabric-like finish. Some choose to overcoat it with clear to give it more protection from fuel and grime. Personally, I don't do that and it holds up well. On certain colors it is not very opaque so keep that in mind. For example the Antique linen 'ivory' almost allows you to see the structure underneath. If you want a little more durable, shinier finish take a look at 21st Century fabric. It is still pricey but needs no overcoat and is only slightly harder to work with. The hardest to get wrinkle free are the plastic (monokote-like) materials but they are the least expensive yet the most durable. For any of the coverings you will need a heat gun, covering iron and probably a trim iron, all available through Tower. Practise on any of these coverings leads to good results. Radio choices JR, Futaba, Hitech, Airtronics are all good products. See what your local club members prefer. This can be important if you are going to use the buddy box route to learn or to teach. Just don't skimp here as you want a system that allows you to grow. That doesn't mean you'll need 12 channels but only four will limit you quickly. I'd go with at least a 6 channel, 2.4 system. Keep in mind that barring a crash at Mach 1.2, your radio system and engine will probably survive to fly again. Best of luck down there! |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Ditto what Auggie said, about everything. The LT40 is an excellent plane to learn on, so you have choosen wisely. I have an OS 46AX on mine which is more than enough for the plane and should also do well in the Midstar, when you get to it. This summer I put floats on my LT40 and the plane flew very well, even at our elevation of 4500 feet.
I have found Ultracote to be the most user friendly of the plastic coverings to apply and holds uo well over time if done correctly. If you seal the seams it will last even longer and if the unthinkable happens, it's pretty easy to fix. As for the radio-what Auggie said:) Good luck on the build. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Cheers Augie. Yeah, I will be flying at sea level and no need for floats. There isn't much difference in price between the 46 and 55 engines but I would rather get something that would suit the Mid Star 40 as well as the LT-40.
Mike109 has given me a bit of advice on the coverings (cheers mate). It's a bit confusing with all the different names they give the same product ie. Profilm/Ultracote or Solarfilm/Monocote. Why??? I want to build this plane strong and from what I have read, the Solartex would be a good option? I'm not too concerned about the cost. I have already spent hundreds of dollars anyway getting the two kits and building gear and now engine, covering, radio, club fees etc etc. ****, I haven't even looked at fuel, fuel pump, starter, feild box. The list goes on so what's a couple of extra bucks for some decent covering materials? I'll have to take out a second mortgage on the house anyway I think! :( As for the radio gear, I am willing to pay for a "mid range" type set such as the Aurora 9 or DX7. I have read a lot of good news about both systems and they are both available locally. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Wazz, One other suggestion. Since you're building from a kit, make templates of the parts before gluing things together. This can be as simple as tracing out parts on butcher paper. You never know when you might need to copy a part for replacement.
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RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Cheers yel914. To tell you the truth, I am sort of torn between Ultracote or Solartex. I just figured that the Solartex might just be a ;little bit stronger? How do you seal the seams?
Augie11 - I have a heat gun already and am planning on buying a covering iron when I buy my covering. I was hoping I could get away without a trim iron for now? |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
ORIGINAL: yel914 Wazz, One other suggestion. Since you're building from a kit, make templates of the parts before gluing things together. This can be as simple as tracing out parts on butcher paper. You never know when you might need to copy a part for replacement. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
I was thinking of doing that or maybe even duplicating every part but then I thought, what if I just get a few copies of the plans? I have access to a big copier. Not sure how big but I might just have to cut the plans up a little bit. Isn't every part drawn to scale on the plans? I haven't actually got the plans out yet but I have read right through the instructions already. I am planning on doing a build thread and also follow Ken's build thread as I go. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
ORIGINAL: wazzbat Cheers yel914. To tell you the truth, I am sort of torn between Ultracote or Solartex. I just figured that the Solartex might just be a ;little bit stronger? How do you seal the seams? Augie11 - I have a heat gun already and am planning on buying a covering iron when I buy my covering. I was hoping I could get away without a trim iron for now? A trim iron is fairly cheap and will help in tight corners, etc. You'll be happy to have it mate. You seal seams with a heat iron or trim iron beofre you shrink the covering with a heat gun. SOLID SEAM SEAL IS ESSENTIAL so covering doesn't pull away from seams. Practise first! Solartex is not stronger than the plasticsjust a LOT easier to wrap around compound curves. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
You can put parts like ribs and formers on the glass plate of the copier and just copy them directly.
Tom |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
ORIGINAL: noveldoc You can put parts like ribs and formers on the glass plate of the copier and just copy them directly. Tom |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
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ORIGINAL: wazzbat G'day all. I am in the proccess of chasing up some tools and starting to look at things like coverings for my LT-40 kit. > > Etc . . . (read original post #1) > I plan on building a Mid Star 40 (which I have waiting in the box too) after I finish the LT-40 so I would also like to try and utilise any left over covering and maybe the same engine etc if I can. Any comments or suggestions will be muchly appreciated. There is many reasons for that. Good adherance to the structure ___ Strength (resistance to tearing) ___ No wrinkles; genuine aircraft dope keeps thightening for decades ___ Easily brushed on; no need for spray booth ___ Cost ___buy light polyester fabric at the fabric retailer (45" wide for $5.00 a yard or meter) ___Buy your aircraft dope where the full size airplane refinishers do ($15.00 to $20.00 a liter). Have fun and get a well finished model Zor |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
ORIGINAL: wazzbat G'day all. I am in the proccess of chasing up some tools and starting to look at things like coverings for my LT-40 kit. I ordered a few bits and peices from Tower Hobbies the other day and am waiting for them to arrive down under but am still undecided on 3 main things. 1 - Type of covering to use? 2 - What engine to put in it? 3 - What radio to get? 2. I had a LT-40 ARF that I had 13~14 engines in, I like engines;), I found the LA-40 was the best for two strokes, the Saito 50 was the best for four strokes. The LT-40 is a great trainer, (the best), but it doesn't respond well to being over powered. It is a great slow flier, a mediocre fast flyer. I put a OS.61 FX on mine, it took off in 3 feet, but you had to fly it at 25% throttle most the time, I hated it. The LA and Saito took full power for talk offs then 60~70% for flying, thats perfect IMHO. The LA has the added advantage of being inexpensive and a bushed engine. Ball-bearings are nice for the most power, but the fuel attracts water which causes the bearings to rust and fail. The .46AX will work fine, just a lot more money and not needed, but if you are looking ahead to powering somethingelse later OK, but this plane won't need it. 3. Any four channel radio will work. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Wazzbat,
We have several LT40s in the club with Saito 56 engines on them and it is a great combination. It would be about an extra $100USD. Stan |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
ORIGINAL: wazzbat Cheers yel914. To tell you the truth, I am sort of torn between Ultracote or Solartex. I just figured that the Solartex might just be a ;little bit stronger? How do you seal the seams? Augie11 - I have a heat gun already and am planning on buying a covering iron when I buy my covering. I was hoping I could get away without a trim iron for now? Some of the covering out of China has gotten some good reviews also, and the price is really good. Last, a trim iron is a very good investment. Iuse it about equally with the covering iron. Get things stuck down around the edges and then the heat gun to finish the shrink. Don |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Welcome to building. Fantastic!
The LT-40 builds tail heavy - at least my kit had very hard balsa that is used for the fin/rudder and stab/elevator surfaces. I rebuilt with lighter pieces but soon rebuilt the tail with harder pieces as the light stuff suffered terminal hanger damage - have no recollection as to what happened. As a result a heavier engine helps offset the weight (I built mine as a tail dragger - may not be so much of an issue if using the tricycle gear that comes with the kit. My LT-40 was initially powered by an Evolution 52 NX (2-stroke). At anything over 1/3 throttle - up line of 45 degrees or more. I have since changed to an OS 46 FX (not AX) with an 11x5. I also shimmed the rear of the wing up 2-3 mm. As a result 3/4 throttle is nearly straight-n-level with some up when at full throttle (a good thing with a trainer). It will do a nice 10 second loop, vertical up lines (to a limit - I'm at nearly 6000 feet), rolls are very good for a flat bottom winged trainer with dihedral. When instructing I can demonstrate many different maneuvers just to entice the student to take the next step. Covering? Ultracote (US brand name - Oracote is the manufacturer's name for it) as it will stretch-n-shrink over many different surfaces. Concave surfaces are a real "Beach" when using a film. Ultracote has the color in the top surface leaving the adhesive layer clear. Helpful if you need to do crash repair - there will be no residual color left on the surface that will affect subsequent covering. Downside is that it tends to scuff a bit easy and some of the brighter colors are not opaque (fairly transparent in fact). Your workmanship will show up through the covering. Like others have suggested - practice covering on other stuff before the final product. Pull some pieces out of your "fields" sin bin (post-crash repository) and give it a go. MinnFlyer did a couple of videos on covering. Well worth the watch. Check the header on the forum page RC Community - the drop down includes RC Videos. Check 'em out. Good luck. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
ORIGINAL: Zor Full size airplanes in the old days were covered with fabric and aircraft dope. There is many reasons for that. Good adherance to the structure _ _ _ Strength (resistance to tearing) _ _ _ No wrinkles; genuine aircraft dope keeps thightening for decades _ _ _ Easily brushed on; no need for spray booth _ _ _ Cost _ _ _ buy light polyester fabric at the fabric retailer (45'' wide for $5.00 a yard or meter) _ _ _ Buy your aircraft dope where the full size airplane refinishers do ($15.00 to $20.00 a liter). Have fun and get a well finished model Zor Nice lookin' bip, what model is it? |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
You can't go wrong with the Lt 40. I built 2 with 46FX and they flew great. I suggest you make a few contacts at the club. They will be able to guide you as to what is best in your area.
It's much easier to help a newbie if they ask before purchasing. Enjoy the build. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Hey Zor, Nice lookin' bip, what model is it? Of course it is all covered with fabric and genuine airplane dope. Multiple modifications were made. It now has an aluminum spinner. Zor |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
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I would like to repeat, reiterate, re-stress......what SeamusG said about UltraCote. It's fairly easy to apply but the lighter colors such as white and yellow are translucent - you'll be able to see the woodgrain or structure through the film. Monokote is less translucent (more opaque) but is not as user friendly in my humble opinion. I covered the wings and horizontal stab of my King Kobra with yellow Ultracote but as you can see, the woodgrain of the balsa skin is visible underneath. So I covered the fuselage, vertical stab, rudder, elevator in yellow Monokote which doesn't show the woodgrain as bad. The translucence of yellow and white Ultracote are a big disappointment imho.
(Note: the plastic cowl, battery hatch, and plastic upper fuselage were all painted with yellow Krylon Fusion. Since it's an electric plane fuel-proof covering is not required.) My first experience with Ultracote was the tan with transparent amber (see attached). I was extremely satisfied with the appearance and ease of application. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
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As my LHS owner who's my building mentor suggests: sand every piece of would on all sides before gluing it in place. Also, clean up the joints where you have used alipathic resin (Elmer's, Titebond - aka wood glue) with a wet Q-tip because the glue (Titebond) dries yellowish-orange and will show up thru those nasty transparent / translucent coverings. Yea, he likes to show of his serious building skills!
How does the fabric-n-dope approach match up with films like Ultracote or Monokote in overall weight? I used Ultracote bright yellow (not transparent)and transparent green on my Kadet Senior. Compared to the green the yellow is very opaque. Compared to Ultracote Cub Yellow, the bright yellow looks pretty transparent. Olive drab - nice work!Especially like the tan / transparent amber. Nice use of cap strips on the edges of the ribs. A good detail to add (if not specified by the mfg.) if you intend to use transparent covering. Also, if you use hinges that are deeper than the TE (wing / stab / fin)or LE (ailerons / elevators / fin) you might consider adding balsa blocks to the TE / LEat the hinge locations for a bit of added strength and glue surface area. Idid that with the Senior. |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Thanks for all your responses. Sounds like the 46AX might be a goer but I think my next step really needs to be to get down to a club and have a chat to some people face to face. Hopefully I can find some time to do it sooner rather than later!
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RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
I probably started this thread in the wrong area. Maybe It should have gone in the Beginner's area but I thought seems I was asking questions relating to a kit??? So I'm sorry if I've upset anyone.
Just thought I'd post a bit of an update. I got down to a club yesterday after emailing one of the members. They were all very helpful. There was only about 9 or 10 guys there. It was windy as and they were having their annual glider comp day so I didn't get to see and powered planes but it was still good to go and meet some guys and have a chat. I was very shocked to learn that just about everyone there now buys ARFs! I would have thought there would have been a few of the older guys about that still like to build? Apparently not? But I haven't met everyone yet so there might be hope. Might just have to pull a sickie on a Friday when all the retired guys head down to the field. There must be at least one builder? Anyway, it looks like other than everyone on the forum, I'll be on my own. The main points I came away with were - 1. Most members/instructors are mode 2 which meant pulling my RF Sim controller apart when I got home and swapping a spring here and another thingy there around. Now I will have to teach myself Mode 2. Damm it! 2. Most of the guys use Futaba so if I want to Buddy Box, I should probably buy Futaba as well. 3. A lot of the guys are going gas instead of glow. They think it is more economical with the price of glow fuel. But they did say a 46AX would be a good choice for the LT-40. So. Now my biggest dilemma is what radio equipment to buy? I was thinking the Aurora 9 but seems the guys are using Futaba gear I'm now thinking maybe a 7C. I don't really want to import a radio incase of any warranty issues so I need to get something readily available here. Do you think it is a big deal if I get a radio that I can't buddy box with? |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
Get a rdio that you can "buddy box" with but first find a fellow willing to help you and listen to his suggestion what to get.
You may find more than one fellow willing to help and this other fellow may have some different radio. Do not rush your decision. Get at lest 7 channels; you will need them later and will not have to buy a second radio. My 2 cents worth. Enjoy and have fun, Zor |
RE: LT-40 Kit questions?
<span style="color: #ff0000">Hello wazzbat,
A few comments in red below ____ </span> ORIGINAL: wazzbat I probably started this thread in the wrong area. Maybe It should have gone in the Beginner's area but I thought seems I was asking questions relating to a kit??? So I'm sorry if I've upset anyone. <span style="color: #ff0000">No one has any valid reason(s) to be upset. There is no sharp demarcaton between Beginners and experienced fliers or hobbyists. It is a constant ongoing development and learning progression</span> Just thought I'd post a bit of an update. I got down to a club yesterday after emailing one of the members. They were all very helpful. There was only about 9 or 10 guys there. It was windy as and they were having their annual glider comp day so I didn't get to see and powered planes but it was still good to go and meet some guys and have a chat. <span style="color: #ff0000">Some clubs have mainly friendly people while some others have a majority of unfriendly people. Some clubs even refuse new members. We have such a club in this vicinity and they fly on city property which is public. That club president (no one else wants to be president) said they rent the property from the city. The city parc officials say it is not so. A dozen fliers from another club contacted the president of that club throug one of their representative to adise that on the coming weekend they would go and fly there and would like to meet him. He replied he would not be there because he does not fly at that site. He said "I fly at XXX field". XXX field is 8 miles away from that club site. When asked why (?) he replied "no one else wants the title of president". </span> I was very shocked to learn that just about everyone there now buys ARFs! I would have thought there would have been a few of the older guys about that still like to build? Apparently not? But I haven't met everyone yet so there might be hope. Might just have to pull a sickie on a Friday when all the retired guys head down to the field. There must be at least one builder? Anyway, it looks like other than everyone on the forum, I'll be on my own. <span style="color: #ff0000">Many in this forum will be glad to help as capable and as needed.</span> The main points I came away with were - 1. Most members/instructors are mode 2 which meant pulling my RF Sim controller apart when I got home and swapping a spring here and another thingy there around. Now I will have to teach myself Mode 2. Damm it! <span style="color: #ff0000">Consider that as part of the fun. The learning process is all part of this hobby. </span> 2. Most of the guys use Futaba so if I want to Buddy Box, I should probably buy Futaba as well. <span style="color: #ff0000">Since you intend to "buddy box", first find who you would be "buddy boxing" with and decide together what you should buy to be fully compatible.</span> 3. A lot of the guys are going gas instead of glow. They think it is more economical with the price of glow fuel. But they did say a 46AX would be a good choice for the LT-40. <span style="color: #ff0000">Most experienced with an LT-40 agree that a 46AX is a good engine for that model. There are few gasoline engines in the small sizes. You obviously have to use what is available.</span> So. Now my biggest dilemma is what radio equipment to buy? I was thinking the Aurora 9 but seems the guys are using Futaba gear I'm now thinking maybe a 7C. I don't really want to import a radio incase of any warranty issues so I need to get something readily available here. Do you think it is a big deal if I get a radio that I can't buddy box with? <span style="color: #ff0000">I do not have to tell you that without a "buddy box" you are pretty well on your own. The idea of quickly passing your transmitter to an experienced flier beside you is much too slow a motion. An instructor has to have his finger on the transfer switch at all times for instant reaction.</span> If anyone claims he never crashed then he is saying "he never flew a model aircraft". Best 2 U de Zor |
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