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-   -   Two servo ailerons (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-building-121/10558508-two-servo-ailerons.html)

sensei 06-06-2011 01:06 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

With the cost of a servo, and the capabilities of even a modest radio, I see no reason whatsoever NOT to put one servo on each aileron.
My point exactly.

Bob

WhiteRook 06-06-2011 01:17 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
A servo for each a ron is a bit heaver , but a lot less slop, A LOT.

EscapeFlyer 06-06-2011 02:04 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 

ORIGINAL: WhiteRook

A servo for each a ron is a bit heaver , but a lot less slop, A LOT.
This is simply not true when installed properly.

And... nobody is required to approach an aileron install in any other manner than safely. Belcranks work just fine, and without slop. So does the aileron rod method. Both of these can use 2 servos as well, btw, and you don't have to add extra weight outboard in the wing. From this knowledge, belcranks and aileron rods make more sense, actually.


Brian

Lightspeed1551 06-06-2011 03:24 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
The bell crank method works great. Allthough to prevent blow back, and gear striping I would use a higher torque metal gear servo. It never hurts to over do it.

ovationdave 06-06-2011 04:26 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 


ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes


ORIGINAL: WhiteRook

A servo for each a ron is a bit heaver , but a lot less slop, A LOT.
This is simply not true when installed properly.

And... nobody is required to approach an aileron install in any other manner than safely. Belcranks work just fine, and without slop. So does the aileron rod method. Both of these can use 2 servos as well, btw, and you don't have to add extra weight outboard in the wing. From this knowledge, belcranks and aileron rods make more sense, actually.


Brian
I would have to agree that a bellcrank can be set up to be very efficient. I had one in a Don Muddiman "Flying Machine" and used a single servo with a "line drive" servo horn that was sweet. It worked really well, and doesn't move the aileron torque rod up or down with the rotation of the servo horn. I have also used single servo method many times with good results. But as many others have mentioned, I think the dual-servooption is thebest for flexability, ease of installation, almost idiot-proof slop reduction, and overall is just the best option available in my opinion. And redundancy is a good thing,I knowI had no problem landing my giant super sportster when one aileron horn broke last year. With one aileron working, I hardly noticed (except for the aileron flutter on one side!) But when you get down to it, they all work, and can all work perfectly fine for a plane like the chipmunk.

Dave

cubfloater 06-06-2011 04:58 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
wow, lots of good discussion here, things I've never thought about. I was about to rip out a good looking bell crank set up on a 1/6 Pica Waco for two outboard aileron servos but now I don't know. Only thing is they are old and plastic. If I can replace the plastic with something like above I may try them with a stronger servo or two. Thanks for all the discussion.

Jim

zacharyR 06-06-2011 05:03 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
does CG even sell anything any more ?

Gray Beard 06-06-2011 05:26 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 


ORIGINAL: zacharyR

does CG even sell anything any more ?
Yes/no. Cg was bought out by Lanier then Lanier was bought out by great planes. GP pretty much killed off most of the kits but the Chip and Cub is still alive and well.

sensei 06-06-2011 05:29 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 

ORIGINAL: ovationdave



ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes


ORIGINAL: WhiteRook

A servo for each a ron is a bit heaver , but a lot less slop, A LOT.
This is simply not true when installed properly.

And... nobody is required to approach an aileron install in any other manner than safely. Belcranks work just fine, and without slop. So does the aileron rod method. Both of these can use 2 servos as well, btw, and you don't have to add extra weight outboard in the wing. From this knowledge, belcranks and aileron rods make more sense, actually.


Brian
I would have to agree that a bellcrank can be set up to be very efficient. I had one in a Don Muddiman ''Flying Machine'' and used a single servo with a ''line drive'' servo horn that was sweet. It worked really well, and doesn't move the aileron torque rod up or down with the rotation of the servo horn. I have also used single servo method many times with good results. But as many others have mentioned, I think the dual-servo option is the best for flexability, ease of installation, almost idiot-proof slop reduction, and overall is just the best option available in my opinion. And redundancy is a good thing, I know I had no problem landing my giant super sportster when one aileron horn broke last year. With one aileron working, I hardly noticed (except for the aileron flutter on one side!) But when you get down to it, they all work, and can all work perfectly fine for a plane like the chipmunk.

Dave
Yes, a bellcrank can be setup to work just perfect with no problems if you are willing to really go the distance, but why in the world would you do this on an aerobatic aircraft when you can go direct link to a number of fantastic servos and linkages available today. OK, so this kit was designed for a single servo on the ailerons, old school and it worked alright with those old servos and those old engines from the past... Today we all have the option to make thing work fantastic with the available electronics, power plants, and all the gadgets to go with everything. I have also been building and flying for over 40 years, so I remember all those kits and yes, I miss them, but the engines and am radios... I am happy to say they are gone!!! Yes, they got us were we are today, but it really is long past time to move forward. Personally I like changes for the better.

Bob

Campgems 06-06-2011 06:21 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
Gene, sit down, this is going to hurt. Neither the cub or the Chipmunk is avaiable at tower any longer on the Tower site. In fact just like the Lanier line, the Goldberg line isgone. If you do a brand search, not a single plane shows under Goldberg, just a few misc parts and not many of them. The Goldberg site is still up but not the old one. They state thatthey don't sell direct anylonger, go to your LHS. I'm guessing if Tower doesn't sell it, it's not avaiale unless it is "Old Stock" at a LHS.

Don




ORIGINAL: Gray Beard



ORIGINAL: zacharyR

does CG even sell anything any more ?
Yes/no. Cg was bought out by Lanier then Lanier was bought out by great planes. GP pretty much killed off most of the kits but the Chip and Cub is still alive and well.

Campgems 06-06-2011 07:18 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
Just checked Advantage Hobby and they have both in stock acording to their web site.

Don

rcmichael 06-06-2011 07:22 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
In reality either system will work. You can use small light weight digital servos and not gain any weight. Bellcranks work and are time proven, but generally can't be adjusted easily once the covering is on. I owned this exact plane. If you use bellcranks I recommend using ball links for smooth non wear durability. Best of luck! Mike

atomic monkey 06-06-2011 08:06 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
I am really impressed with all of the great ideas!  I ordered the Chipmunk last weekend from Tower and I feel like a young kid just before Christmas!<div>As suggested, I am going to buy a 4 channel arf trainer and get comfortable with it before I take the Chipmunk up. It will probably take allot longer to build than I am thinking so it probably wont build up too much dust.</div><div>
</div><div>One more question on the aileron servos...</div><div>I like the idea, ease and redundancy of two servos but if I mount them out in the wing to avoid a long control arm, that seems sort of anti aerobatic, if I mount them next to each other in the wing root, it still has two long control arms. Am I over thinking this?</div><div>
</div><div>Thanks again,</div><div>Mike</div>

oskartek 06-06-2011 08:51 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
Another point that I have not seen in this thread is that if your transmitter has flaperon mixing you are going to
need dual servos if you wish to use that function.

Happy flying, Oscar

sensei 06-07-2011 03:00 AM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 


ORIGINAL: atomic monkey

I am really impressed with all of the great ideas! I ordered the Chipmunk last weekend from Tower and I feel like a young kid just before Christmas!<div>As suggested, I am going to buy a 4 channel arf trainer and get comfortable with it before I take the Chipmunk up. It will probably take allot longer to build than I am thinking so it probably wont build up too much dust.</div><div>
</div><div>One more question on the aileron servos...</div><div>I like the idea, ease and redundancy of two servos but if I mount them out in the wing to avoid a long control arm, that seems sort of anti aerobatic, if I mount them next to each other in the wing root, it still has two long control arms. Am I over thinking this?</div><div>
</div><div>Thanks again,</div><div>Mike</div>
Yes, you are way over thinking this, just place your servos out from the root of the ailerons around 38-40% of the span and you will be set.

Bob

BarracudaHockey 06-07-2011 04:46 AM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 


ORIGINAL: atomic monkey

One more question on the aileron servos...</div><div>I like the idea, ease and redundancy of two servos but if I mount them out in the wing to avoid a long control arm, that seems sort of anti aerobatic, if I mount them next to each other in the wing root, it still has two long control arms. Am I over thinking this?</div><div>
</div><div>Thanks again,</div><div>Mike</div>
What do you mean by "anti aerobatic" ?

You'd be hard pressed to find any kind of aerobatic aircraft manufactured today without that setup.

cubfloater 06-07-2011 01:30 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
who sells good bell crank set ups? I'd like to try a pair.

atomic monkey 06-07-2011 02:30 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
Anti aerobatic might be a little overkill! And now thinking about it, an extra 37 grams out in the wings while they are under load is probably nothing. <div>The funny thing is, I am getting all serious about this airplane and sweating each detail and I have never even flown a four channel plane much less the aerobatics that I imagine I will be doing with it one day!!!</div>

sensei 06-07-2011 02:44 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 


ORIGINAL: atomic monkey

Anti aerobatic might be a little overkill! And now thinking about it, an extra 37 grams out in the wings while they are under load is probably nothing. <div>The funny thing is, I am getting all serious about this airplane and sweating each detail and I have never even flown a four channel plane much less the aerobatics that I imagine I will be doing with it one day!!!</div>
You have already learned to fly pitch and yaw, now your just adding roll and power, you will do just fine.

Bob

cubcrasher 06-07-2011 05:39 PM

RE: Two servo ailerons
 
tower still has the goldberg cub &amp; chipmunk, but it is listed under great planes kit section


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