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vertical grimmace 10-20-2011 12:09 PM

New kit ideas?
 
So it seems that there is some clamoring for kits, so I must assume there is a market for them to some degree. Assuming this, what kinds of kits do you guys want to see?

I have some ideas. It seems that most flyers are going larger and prefer gas. To me, I think there needs to be some kits that offer a good section of sport type aircraft, i.e. sport pattern, trainer, sport warbird, that are designed around the smaller to mid sized gas engines. Such as the DLE 20- 55.

My club field is dominated with ARF IMAC type aircraft and everyone else flies warbirds. As an instructor, I would like to see a good gas trainer in the 20cc-30cc size. Then I would like to see an Ultra sport/Kaos type design in this size as well.

This could be a future endevour for me. Also, everything would be laser cut and very easy to build. Possibly foam wing option. This is a new era, and I think we need up to date modern kits. I know there are some builders left.

Opinions please

box car 10-20-2011 12:46 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
http://amr-rc.com/

foodstick 10-20-2011 01:45 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Since its on subject, I wish Sig offered a LT 120 , big enough for a 25-50 cc gas.

soarrich 10-20-2011 01:57 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 


ORIGINAL: foodstick

Since its on subject, I wish Sig offered a LT 120 , big enough for a 25-50 cc gas.
Ditto that! A nice 26cc Rascal like kit would be nice also.

vertical grimmace 10-20-2011 02:26 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
A Rascal type is exactly what I had thought of. Sig has/had such great designs. Many of which would be wonderful blown up just a little. Many in the Kaos line as well. Or a Sun FLi maybe. Good ol' sport airplanes like we used to enjoy so much. Just a little bigger and designed to be easily built with modern, lightweight engineering.

Gray Beard 10-20-2011 04:41 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Most of the Bridi designs are alive and well at Blue Jay. Even the 80 inch Kaos and Big Bee. Modern cutting??????? The cutting has never bothered me one way or another. It was the death of all the old kits we used to have and they were turned into ARFs that bothered me. As a plans builder I don't worry about it any longer. Cutting a kit myself only takes about two hours so it's part of the building process.If people want a big something that is in kit form just buy the small one and have the plans blown up at Kinko's to the size you want.
With all the plans on the market there is no reason to lament the loss of kits. Just using MAN, AMA and RCM plans service there are more planes you can build then were ever offered in kit form.;)

debspersonaldogwalker 10-20-2011 05:43 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Kit the Jungmeister in six different sizes.

foodstick 10-20-2011 07:11 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Well 5 sizes maybe..but I am not sure about 6 :D

I wouldn't mind having a big scale Jungmeister in the Hangar, what a sweet biplane.

vertical grimmace 10-21-2011 07:37 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Well I guess it is not worth the effort then.

rhall999 10-23-2011 08:16 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
I'll tell you what I would love to see. Some scale aerobatic planes in the 1/4 scale range (20-30cc or so) Now before you say theres lots, hear me out. Imean kits, not ARFs. And, I am not talking 3D stuff with enlarged controls surfaces, extended tail moments, and all that other garbage. I mean scale aerobatic planes that are SCALE. in other words, an Extra 300 that has true scale outline/planform. A Sukhoi SU-26 that can actually be recognised as such.A nice, true scale Pitts Special kit. Again, not a modified Pitts 12 or Python, but a good ole' Pitts S-1 (think Byron originals style) To me, that would be really nice to have.

KC10Chief 10-23-2011 08:48 PM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Ultra Sport 1000. That is all.

raydar 10-24-2011 02:32 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
I second the need for modern designed light weight kits with 3d capibilitys or highly aerobatic manoversin mind for small gas 20 to 50cc or up,most young folk new to the hobby dont want to build and fly a old heavy kit brick, no matter how scale it looks. There is still alot of nice scale models out there you can build and if thats your thing great, im not knocking it and plan to build a few in my time, but there is not many modern low wing loading kits out there.

A example is the skybolt kit I just built, built it because I love to build but at a full lb heavier than the arf version most people simple just would not bother.


ezflyer 10-24-2011 03:36 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
i am just getting back in to the airplane kit building and geeeese. when i left just a few years ago there were plenty kits to build. i am having a hard time finding decent kit with a decent price tag. i had a few gassers and plenty of glows. it is auctauly cheaper to buy an arf but still prefer to build, to pass my time. i would like to see a few more kits that is aimed towords the 60 threw 120 size glow. they are still easy to transport to the field. in my case i have a strip of about 1200 feet in my back yard wich is private of course. i prefer top wing kits such as the decathalon, citibra, cub, etc. i dont mind flying a low wing either tho. bipes are cool as well. if you was to put out a kit with a decent price tag and quality parts, people will buy them. key thing is the price tag. i would not want to buy a kit that is priced high when i could cut it out and save a bundle. i admire your concern for producing a kit, but keep in mind that builders have done resorted to doing it all them selfs, because thats were the industries has set the mark. good luck and keep us posted on what your decisions are. charles......

LesUyeda 10-24-2011 06:21 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
"scale aerobatic planes that are SCALE. in other words, an Extra 300 that has true scale outline/planform."

One of the problems is that you can scale the airplane, but you cannot scale the air molecules, and manufacturers frequently enlarge the tail surfaces to make them effective in the downwized version.

Les

rhall999 10-24-2011 07:24 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 

One of the problems is that you can scale the airplane, but you cannot scale the air molecules, and manufacturers frequently enlarge the tail surfaces to make them effective in the downwized version.

Les
I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree. Iknow all about scaling down, reynolds #'s etc. That is NOT why control surfaces need to be enlarged, particularily in the 1/4 scale range. maybe in the small .25 and below aircraft. There is no reason why a scale aircraft with correct scale outlines and planfroms will not fly, and fly well. Case in point: every damn aircraft at Scale Masters or Top Gun. On the modern aerobatic RC's the controls are enarged to give control for 3D manuevers.

There used to be a whole bunch of correct scale aerobatic planes that flew great. Here is a quick list just off the top of my head.

Lanier Laser 200 (1/4 and 1/3 scale)
Byron Pitts
Byron Extra 300
Byron Christen Eagle
Byron Sukhoi
All the Ohio R/C kits (they had Extras, Suhkoi, Ultimate bipes omong a few others)

In a smaller scale, yet still proper sized planform

Goldberg Ultimate
Goldberg Staudacher
Goldberg Jungmeister
Great Planes Extra 300s

And that is just a quick list I came up with off the top of my head as I was typing this. I am sure there are quite a few more that I have forgotten about. Scaling down and maintaining scale outlines can and has been done......a lot.

TomCrump 10-25-2011 02:33 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 


ORIGINAL: rhall999


One of the problems is that you can scale the airplane, but you cannot scale the air molecules, and manufacturers frequently enlarge the tail surfaces to make them effective in the downwized version.

Les
I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree. I know all about scaling down, reynolds #'s etc. That is NOT why control surfaces need to be enlarged, particularily in the 1/4 scale range. maybe in the small .25 and below aircraft. There is no reason why a scale aircraft with correct scale outlines and planfroms will not fly, and fly well. Case in point: every damn aircraft at Scale Masters or Top Gun. On the modern aerobatic RC's the controls are enarged to give control for 3D manuevers.

There used to be a whole bunch of correct scale aerobatic planes that flew great. Here is a quick list just off the top of my head.

Lanier Laser 200 (1/4 and 1/3 scale)
Byron Pitts
Byron Extra 300
Byron Christen Eagle
Byron Sukhoi
All the Ohio R/C kits (they had Extras, Suhkoi, Ultimate bipes omong a few others)

In a smaller scale, yet still proper sized planform

Goldberg Ultimate
Goldberg Staudacher
Goldberg Jungmeister
Great Planes Extra 300s

And that is just a quick list I came up with off the top of my head as I was typing this. I am sure there are quite a few more that I have forgotten about. Scaling down and maintaining scale outlines can and has been done......a lot.
Maybe the designers should read this.. Ziroli, Bates, Hostetler, and others frequently modify their designs to fly better. None design 3D models.

Kevin East 10-25-2011 03:58 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Anyone rember the Ace 1/3 scale Weeks Special?

Kevin

LesUyeda 10-25-2011 06:15 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
"manufacturers" are NOT entering their offerings at Scale Masters. "manufacturers" and providing a product that is intended to do its job and satisfy the customers.

end.

73's

foodstick 10-25-2011 08:44 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Kevin, I have a buddy Finishing the build on the 1/3 pitts you mentioned..

rhall999 10-25-2011 09:55 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 

Maybe the designers should read this.. Ziroli, Bates, Hostetler, and others frequently modify their designs to fly better. None design 3D models
Yes, that is true. They do change small things here and there....BUT, if you set one of their models besidethe full size aircraft, they will look the same. In other words all the proportions are accurate enough that to the human eye there is NO discernable difference except for the oveall size of the model. You take a Ziroli Mustang and look at it, and it looks like a Mustang. What I am getting at, is you take your average Extra 300 off the shelf, and set it beside a full size one, it does not look the same. The controls are all out of proportion (way oversized), the fuselage is too long (especially tail moment), typically the rudder is the wrong shape and size altogether, and most of them also have had the wing and horizontail stab shifted vertically in relation to the fuselage center line. Simply put, THEYARENOTSCALE!!!! Find a picture of a real Extra, and your typical off the shelf RC one and you will see I am right. Now, guys want to fly 3D, good for them.....I don't. I want a proper scale aerobatic plane to do more IMAC or scale type flying.....I cannot get a kit for one anymore, they are ALL modified for 3D.

That is what I was trying to say before, and was told that it cannot be done, see next quote:


One of the problems is that you can scale the airplane, but you cannot scale the air molecules, and manufacturers frequently enlarge the tail surfaces to make them effective in the downwized version.
I am talking about the ridiculously oversized for 3D, and the modified moments and alignments.

And next, Les, you totally missed the point here,:


"manufacturers" are NOT entering their offerings at Scale Masters. "manufacturers" and providing a product that is intended to do its job and satisfy the customers
I was using the example of aircraft that you see at Scale masters to show that, yes you can scale down an airplane and still maintain the correct outline and size of the controls, and it will fly quite nicely to boot. The list of older kits I gave is the same, some examples to prove that yes it can be done. The original question asked what we would like to see as a kit, my answer is STILL, some proper SCALE aerobatic planes.

paulrcpilot-RCU 10-25-2011 10:12 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
I would like to see ANY scale kits of unusual subjects ie Westland Whirlwind, Martin Marauder or any of the WW2 Migs or Yak's

skyraider71 10-25-2011 10:59 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
I would love to see a TopFlight Gold Edition A1 Skyraider.

js3 10-26-2011 07:40 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
Hi Rick,

More power to you!

I think the size you're looking at 20cc to 50cc is just about right. Even at the upper end of that size they're getting hard to transport so I think you've picked a good, reasonable size range.

As for planes, you could go the warbird route because there's not a lot of selection for heavy metal in the 70" to 77" range. Sure there's a plan here or there but most stuff is bigger or smaller. 70" to 77" span is a really nice size IMHO.

I'm always partial to racers. I'd love to see good scale representations of golden age racers like the Caudron, Shoenfeldt Firecracker, Wedell Williams, Mr. Mulligan, Jeep, Goon etc. Heck, anything golden age would be nice even if it wasn't a racer.

Then there's always F1s. It would be nice to see Nemesis in this size. Hostetler's is awesome; it's just too big. Same thing with the Mamoth Scale plans Shoestring. Nice but too big.

I wish you great success with this!

badger5964 10-26-2011 11:50 AM

RE: New kit ideas?
 
How about a predator drone knock off? Not necessarily scale kit but a stand off. Would be neat to do a candy drop with this model!


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