RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

After years of using Monakote I am now a Ultracote guy, Great results everytime and to me works like it should! No going back for me ever!

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I have been using Monokote since 1979 and started using ultrakote in 2000. I think the problem is that people are lazy and want something easier and faster with good results.

Monokote has alsways been a bit tougher to cover with yet if done correctly and thought out I believe it is still the best covering material out there if using a film.


Monokote:

PLUS
1. very tough
2. long lasting
3. wide rang of colors
4. pulls the wood of with it if trying to remove it.
5. will not pull up when stuck over monokote

Minus
1. hard to go around sharp corners with compound curves
2. still thinking


Ultrakote:

Plus
1. very easy to go around compound curves
2. very good on wing fillets
3. shrinks up very well if made a mistake


Minus
1. costs more
2. not as many color choices
3. shrinks to much sometimes and gets thin
4. doesnt pull the wood grain up when removing like monokote
5. will peel up over time on the edges when applied over itself

When i choose a covering i pick it because of color not how easy it is to apply, price, or how much it shrinks. Both together have a good selection of colors. And honestly I hope Monokote doesnt go away.

how many arfs are really covered with TF monokote?

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

This is from Top Flights' web page, FAQs' :

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I noted very careful their notation,"slight changes are made from time to time".

Karol

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Been working great for me for a long time.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

All these threads turn into streams of two kinds of posts: "I used Monokote the other day and it was bad" or "I got good results so you people don't know how to use it." I've gotten some very good results and some very bad ones. The key seems to be whether the roll you got stinks when you open it. If it doesn't, you'll be fine (though it shrinks somewhat less than it used to: as mentioned earlier, better to use an iron than a gun on open areas). If it smells bad, you'll have a problem; sometimes in applying it (a problem I personally haven't had yet) and sometimes in sagging and wrinklng after it's on. I like good Monokote better than any other film, but the others (Ultra and 21st Century film) don't seem to have the QC problems that Monokote has. For me, it comes down to whether I'm feeling lucky (as well as what colors are available).

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Use and like both.  LOL.  What does that make me?

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

They are both OK and Solarfilm is good too. Ultrakote doesn't seem to loosen up as much as Monokote down here in the Florida sun.
But forget all that, I'm wondering how somebody has over 10,000 posts on RCUniverse.... TEN THOUSAND ! Yikes ! Me, I'd rather be flying....

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I think this sums up all the Ultra vs Mono threads nicely; after you filter out all the bashing.

I learned on Monokote, and because I am familiar with it I stick with it. I tried Ultracote on my last model and the differences between the products gave me a big head ache when trying to cover. I am not saying Ultracote is a bad product. I just think the differences in the materials and application get overlooked way too often and not to insult..I wonder if it is the user of the material not film itself.

I do find it odd though that the Ultracote crowd tends to be the most vocal about their product. Seems like its been that way since I learned to fly, kinda comforting in a way that it hasn't changed.

I guess this is our Ford vs Chevy argument.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Thanks for that heads up.

Brian

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Well Steve, do you get the drift?? Next time you have a problem with a product and want to post it on RCU try doing a search first. This is a very old debate and one that comes up every couple of months. Making it a sticky is one of the best ideas I have seen posted, very good thinking. None of the posts ever change except more and more of the regulars have gotten sick of seeing it. I usually see it and don't bother opening it knowing it will be the same old same old! Now you know!!:D

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Add to the minusus... NOT FUELPROOF! The surface yes, the seams no. A fuselage covered in monokote will have the coving peel off eventually. Also both get wrinkly in the sun and just look like crap after a while.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

So you opened it and commented? The OP is free to start a new post on whatever topic they want whether it has been posted about 1,000 times or 3 times. Plus the RCU search engine is retarded. Search for anything and check out the ridiculous nonsensical "Did you mean" on the left.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

No one has to stop building from scratch or kits unless they want to do so. eBay has plenty kits and plans for sale, not to mention RCU and RCG***p's listings.

The ARFs and RTFs give me the chance to fly while I'm taking my time building models with no pressure on me to hurry to completion. It's just a hobby. I can do as I please.

My first problem with Super Monokote occurred in the late seventies/early eighties when I built a couple of RCM Trainers in 60, then 40 sizes using metallic copper red and white Super Monokote for covering. I LOVE this color combination, but the difficulty that the metallic red gave me with not sticking really drove me nuts. The Super Monokote that I used after that and the Oracover/Ultracote that I used a bit later were fine. In the early nineties I built an Utter Chaos 60 and used Super Monokote Pearl Yellow (babysh*t gold). Not only would it barely shrink, it eventually all came loose with some pieces actually falling off (different owner than myself flew it then). I have had better luck with Econokote staying shrunk and in place, but the color choices are too limited, or were the last time I looked.

If you are tired of reading about a particular topic - DON'T READ THE THREAD!!! New people come into this hobby every day. The world does not revolve around you.


Ed Cregger

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

if someone is tired of the subject and usually doesn't open the thread, why open this one just to belitlle the poster with another of 10,270 opinions? Personally, I am interested. I am interested in new, recent up to date info. I have a reason. I have 6 rolls of monocote and 5 of them work well. One of them doesn't. The film looks and feels different. It applies and reacts to heat differently. I don't like this roll but do like all of the others. I would like to know why so I may avoid future problems and save some money and problems with my future prospects. And nobody likes a bully!!!</p>

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Well put.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I bought this E-flite electric F-86 from Horizon Hobbies a few months ago. It looked pretty good when it came out of the box. The covering looked good, and there wasn't a wrinkle on it. The fuselage is painted fiberglass, but the wings and stabs are covered with their brand of covering, which I believe is Ultracote, correct? I may be wrong about the brand of covering, but I doubt it. Either way, the covering sucks!

I took the plane out to the field to fly it last week, and within five minutes of being in the sun (it was only 80° that day), the wings looked horrible. There were bubbles and wrinkles everywhere ... before I even had the first flight!

Monokote never did this to me.

Here are the pictures.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Kudos on this. I don't care if there is 100 open threads on this subject maybe on the 101st Hobbico will realize they ruined the product and do something to fix it. I consider Monokote another art medium and it has changed for the worse. Ultracote is not an option because it is not a superior product, just a different one. The only advantage Ultracote has it the shrink factor, not enough for me to become an Ultracote evangelist. My biggest gripe here is not with the product but with Hobbicos attitude toward the problem with the product. Telling me to send the product back for replacement when I have struggled for hours to cover a wing is unacceptable. They keep telling me that all of their ARF's are covered in "Genuine Monokote" and they have no issues with the product. I have been using this stuff for 30 years and they are telling me that a 14 year old Asian kid working in the jungle can put the stuff on with no problems is very insulting.

So complain on people. If they changed the formula they need to go back to the drawing board and tweak it again.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Yes, new monokote stinks. I hate working with it. At swap meets, I try to find old monokote as that stuff is a blast to use. Works great. Luckily I've found enough old rolls to probably get to ~3 plans plus some trim on others. But i won't waste money on the new stuff, Ultracote for me.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I just scratch built a Sweet Stik and took a little extra care on thw final clean up and covering job. Here is what I did different from what I normally do.

First I went over the comepleted wood frame with a worn peice of 120 grit sandpaper. Very lightly to knock off the fuzz on the wood after sanding with coarser paper. Instead of my air compressor to blow it off I weighted my electric weedblower to the bench. Then I held each piece in front of the very strong wind and was amazed at how much dust blew out of the wood pores.

Next I dusted the airframe with a very light coat of Minwax Polyurethane. Just a dusting. Then I went over it again with the worn sandpaper. Then one more time in front of the weedblower. My goal was to get the plane as dust free as possible. You don't want to seal the wood with the Poly. The pores need to be open so that the MK can gas off when being applied or you will get bubbles. Big time.

When covering I tacked the edge and did my best to pull the monokote as tight as I could and tacked the second edge down. Doing this saves all the stretch the MK has built into it.If you push it on with the ironyou are using up the shrink it has built in and will have none left when you need to shrink it tight.Same thing with the wing. Seal the leading edge and pull the trailing edge tight and seal down. I did the trailing edge by starting at the corner and working my way down the wing. t was wrinkle free when I finished and I hadn't shrunk it yet. When I went over the wing to stick the covering to the ribs it also shrunk the covering. It is drum tight.

The only place I have had to touch up was on the fuse where I gripped it in a death grip trying to get my new ST 40 to start with an electric starter. Now that it broke in I just bump it and it starts.

If you are having trouble do a self exam and see if you can change your style a little and it might improve your results.

I have used Ultracoat and liked it but not enough to cause me to abandon MK comepletely.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

+1 but i dont clean off the dust as much as you do but i use a vac with a soft bristle brush attachment. again like I said i think people have gottne lazy with all the arfs and started building again and forgot how to monokote planes. the ULtrakote is easy to apply and easy to cover up mistakes. monokote is the strongest and tightest of the film coverings if applied correctly. if one color doesnt stick as well then precover the plane with "stick it" or Balsa rite"

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I'm sure Top Flight and Great Planes really appreciate you people's extreme efforts to make their trashy screw up still work for you. But as for myself I guess I just don't get it.
Call me lazy or just smart. I'll take the easy way out and pay a couple dollars more and just not use their junk!

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I didn't know what I did was "extreme". I just did a better prep job than I had been doing in the past. Its common knowlege that the key to a good finish is a good prep job. I just wanted to give myself the best chance of getting a good covering job. And the whole thing didn't take an extra hour to do.

I have a friend building a full size Falco and you have no idea of the amount of prep thats going into that plane before he ever sprays the first drop of paint.

Topflight and GP probably just appreciate people who care enough to give thier product a chance to work instead of going to an internet forum and complaining about thier product because they are too lazy to get the dust off the model before trying to cover it.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

I think I have used every type of covering out there except for dress fabric and dope. I have planes that are pushing 20 years old and covered in mono, they look real good. I also have a few that are about 2 years old and have wrinkles. I too believe that the formula has changed a few times over the years. I used to be able to tug, heat, pull, tug, heat pul the mono around the wing tip corners without a wrinkle. I used one of the neon colors and it just would not pull and stretch like the old stuff.

First time I used Ultra, I had the wing covered and it peeled off in one sheet. It did not stick to the balsa at all. I took the stuff back to the LHS, they tried it and could not get it to stick. They swapped out for new rolls and it worked great. I have had good luck and bad luck with both. I have a few planes covered in the neon colors. I did like how they had a paper backing for the neon colors. It made drawing the design on the covering easy. I did find if I sprayed brake cleaner on the covering, I could then slide the next layer of covering in place, let it dry and it was like the Windex method for monocote.

I used to like the old Black Baron stuff. It stuck well, went around corners like crazy. It was just not that strong. It was great for foam wings. It was very low heat.

I tried some stuff from Dymond Model Sports. They had a giant roll of it and they would pull off the amount you wanted so I do not know what it was. That stuff was great. Shrunk like crazy, went around corners, stuck like it was part of the plane. Would like to get more but the store closed their doors.

I did find that if I used the Balsarite for film, before I used any type of covering, it did work a lot better. Some people say you do not need it, waste of time, and so on, but I found it worked for me. It may have been just a getting rid of all dust and fuel proofing the engine bay, but for me it help the covering lay flat and stick well. But thanks to this being Kalifornia, they say it is bad for me and I can not get it any more.

I have a few rolls of China coat. It is thin, does shrink well, goes around corners yet will go so thin you can see the grain and color through the covering. I have had it come apart as I was pulling on it. The color layer pulled from the clear protection layer. It is some what like the Econo coat, flite coat, or other lower cost, low temp coverings out there.

Every covering has good points and bad points. If you try to us them all the same way, it may not work out well.

Buzz.

RE: Monokote....Never Again
 

Gee thanks Rat for setting me straight! Now I know that all I have to do to get it to stretch or shrink is to get all the dust off! Yeh, right!