NO ARF or RTF
 

Where have all the ALL balsa kits gone? I am new to the board so forgive me please. When I was younger like 30 years ago my father always made his planes from a kit of balsa. I am trying to get my son interested and all I can find are pre-maid kits of various materials OTHER than balsa. What fun is that? Are there any manufacturers out there that still make all balsa R/C kits and if so PLEASE point them out to me. Thanks.

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

cityjack,

The ARf market has grown significantly in the past few years but there are still some good kit makers out there. For a trainer, I would recommend looking into the Great Planes or Sig trainer kits. Do a google and you will find plenty of dealers that carry their kits.

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Go to Hobby Barn at: http://www.hobbybarn.com/airplanes_kits.htm

If you're really into all wood 'old style' kits check out the Marutaka line... nice, but for advanced builders.

Another source is Towerhobbies at: http://www.towerhobbies.com/listings/listkits.html

Everything from first kits to scale.


quint :D

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Yeah, lotsa kits still out there, but the trend is towards these ARF planes... (All you seem to see in the magazines now-a-days..)

Sig & Great Planes are probably the best place to start.

then the mail order houses, such as Tower or Great Hobbies

then the many manufactureres out there..

is there a links page on RCU?!

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

[link]http://www.sigmfg.com/[/link][link]http://www.towerhobbies.com/[/link][link]http://www2.mailordercentral.com/quantummodels/[/link]

I does stink how kits are becoming less common all the time. One might think that since they are producing parts and plans for arfs, they could throw them in a kit as well.

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Yeah, that's my beef too!!!

All these 'ARFs' and no kits. Don't they start out as a kit?! can't they hire a monkey to assemble the required 'cut parts' and put them in a box? Can't they hire another monkey to select 'sticks' and place them in the box? And another few monkeys to put a manual together, as well as 'dress up' the plans?

Why can't they put the 'cut parts' in a box, with a plan set, and instruction (picture optinal, but nice) and sell it as a 'short kit / builder's kit'?!

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

More kit links
Adrian Page http://www.adrianpage.com/
AK Models http://akmodels.bizland.com/
Balsa USA http://www.balsausa.com/
D & L Designs http://www.dldesigns.net/
North East Aerodynamics http://www.ne-aero.com/index.html
Runway Plus http://www.rcrunway.com/
Swany's Hanger http://www.swanyshouse.com/

Electrics
Gary Wright http://www.gwmp.net/
Mountain Models http://www.mountainmodels.com/airplanes.htm
Stevens Aero http://www.stevensaero.com/

Enough for now. Most all of these are laser cut.

John

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Maybe if all the kit builders on these boards write\email GP, Sig, Goldberg and anyone else explaining how we want the ARF's as kits they would listen. Maybe we could get them to not include generic hardware to cut the cost a little. I don't like included hardware for the most part. Maybe someone with a lot of experience could head this project up. Get a list of names, numbers and email addresses of people that we can get a hold of about this. Could make it a sticky thread that any new kit builders who pop into the board could be steered towards. Kinda like a grass roots kit movement.

It's not like kit builders are going to buy the ARF anyways so the companies wouldn't lose money. Could go like this. One for the line, one for the box. They must have plans to for training the ARF builders.

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

As they say, lots of kits out there. Goldberg still makes a falcon III, which is the new version of the falcon 56. Its a good bird, or sig kadets, or the eagle II by goldberg. There are tons of good kits out there. What kind of bird are you looking for?

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

It seems to be a sign of the times. Bruce Tharpe of BTE one of the premier kit producers is not making any more Flying Kings or Venture 60s for the foreseeable future, but he is getting them made into ARFs. Makes you want to pull your hair out!
John

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Spokman,
Good idea, I'm all for it. I wrote to Sig about kitting their new 3D Mayhem and did not even get the courtesy of a reply!
John

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

I wrote a note to XXCompany complaining about all the BARFS and RATFs, and the fact that they were no longer giving builders choices of taildragger or tricycle. I fly on a grass field, actually a cow pasture , so I prefer trikes. I also asked why all their planes were going to 3D and dual aileron servos. I also dared to mention that their new kits were not as good quality as they used to be. How dare I !!!. Boy, I got a nasty mail back. After all, they have all these engineers designing planes, who am I to question their judgment. I have only been building planes for 50 years, so my opinion means squat.

I must have struck a nerve, it seems they had a long staff meeting about my letter.

It's all about the big bucks gang. For the past few years, I have built only XXCompany kits, the last one I got was poor design, so I sent it back, and now I am back to scratch building again.

Frankly, you would be wasting your time (as I found out) writing to the factories. My suggestion is to gather up all the good quality balsa you can while still available. The wood in the current kits is hard, brittle and heavy, and you have to replace much of it.

I'm afraid kit builders are an endangered species. I agree that they should offer planes in both kit and arf. By the way, I was also informed that no one wants tricycle gear anymore, cause they are not "sporty" enough.
BO

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Ahhhhhhh, so I am NOT the only one who enjoys the building as much as the flying. Thanks all for your input. I am going to check out the links you all have posted. There was a couple of really cool planes my dad built back in the 70's. I'd love to get them again in kit form. If I can remember they were a WWI French plane, I think it was called a "Soulener" or something like that. Slanted back wings, strings going out to the wings from the fuselage. A "Mr. Mulligan" I think was another, One of my favorites was his "Shoestring". The last one was a plane similiar to the Mr. Mulligan but his had skiis on it. Popular plane back then. Can't remember the name though. Thanks again all.

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

As far as I know, teh shoestring is now a popular (so they say..) ARF from GP..

Yes, this is a trend, and one that has been gathering steam for a few years now. I agree with Bojangles on this one. It's all about profits, and ther is obviously a call for them (ARFs) so kits are becomming less and less popular, not to mention that the quality iof these ARFs is getting better and better.

If we all lobby the companies, to offer kits, we won't get anywhere.. They've made their decision, and will stick with it.. $$ talks, we walk...

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(Tried to delete a duplicate here, but couldn't find how to do it)

quint :D

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

The king has no clothes....

With this thread on kits vs. ARF's it got me to thinking that the only difference between an ARF and a kit these days is who glued it up and covered it. - In a like vein the difference between a kit and scratch building is who has the plans and cut it. Before we hold a wake for building from kits we might just find a nice ship and scratch build it. I remember when I was a kid the old timers bemoaning that the 'new fangled' kits where going to doom 'real' builders, yet we survived. Yes, I scratch build scale, yes I love kits and yes I own and love ARF's too. Perhaps the hobby is doing OK...

quint :D

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

No, they won't. If you want them to listen, you have to tell them in a way that they understand.... BUY the kits!

Let's face it, in this day and age, Manufacturers use much more sophisticated methods than hearing people TALK about what they want. They can easily see that they sell ("X") number of Kits, and (5 x "X") number of ARFs. Now if all o9f the builders bought 5 kits a year, they WOULD listen to the sound of their cash registers. But let's face it... What's YOUR Winter project? (Note: "Project" is singular) Most of us only build one plane a year, and if you crash it in mid-season, it makes more sense to replace it with an ARF, so you don't lose too much flying time.

I'm afraid I don't see kits making a comeback any time soon. But fortunately, as long as there is still SOME market for them, manufacturers will keep making them.

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Nosen builds a nice mulligan, but it is big. There are Goldberg shoestrings still around. I started buying them as fast as I could find them years ago and ended up with 12, but have since sold a bunch of them. They were going for around $250 but well worth it in my eyes. They were one of the most fun birds in the air. I like them on floats too. You can find them on ebay once in a blue moon for around $200.

Good luck

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Spokman
I recently e-mailed GP and asked this question. Unfortunately, Minnflyer is correct. ARFs make money, that's where their focus is.[&o]

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

The reality of it is that 9 out of 10 flyers will choose an ARF over a kit. If your only business is producing kits, you will have a very difficult time competing with ARFs that sell for $200.00 unless you have something unique or have very low overhead and labor costs. The reason the larger companies don't have the Chinese produce the kits is that they need to purchase thousands at a time. There are only so many builders left anymore, so chances are, they would sit on most of the kits for a couple years. It's a much better return to sell them as ARFs and move 10x the amount in the same time frame.

Mike Grey
Skyshark R/C

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I doubt it is that high, but probably more than 50%

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Quint. pls give me a call. next door neighbor dick stamm .

RE: NO ARF or RTF
 

Hi Dick, sent you an e-mail.

cheers,
quint