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TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I've been assembling and flying ARFs for a while now and was toying with the idea of getting into proper building - from kits and plans... There's always a free plan in magazines and I am always amazed by what good builders can create from this simple pieces of paper. I would like to try out my hands at building but have no building skills whatsoever, apart from following instructions in a manual and putting an ARF together. Also, the only tools I have are limited to what I use on my ARFs - a power drill, dremel and the usual assortment of hand tools such as screw drivers, wrenches, allen keys and pliers.
I'd like some advice on the tools, skills (such as being able to fabricate a cowl or canopy) and techniques that I would require to build a presentable plane out of one of those free magazine plans. Also, I understand that builders need a flat surface or bench to build their fuselages and wings on. What's the cheapest way to achieve that? Would a 1-inch thick ply suface on a desk be sufficient for this purpose? |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
From what I seen in threads concerning buildboards, the two least expensive and popular solutions are hollow core doors, or 3/4" MDF covered with ceiling tiles.
As for tools, your budget is the limit. At the least, a lot of #11 blades and a variety of sanding papers. I've not yet tried building from plans, but have done a number of kits. I find a selection of blades, some sanding bars, a flexible hobby rule, a flexible steel rule, some hobby squares/triangles, lots of small clamps, a corded dremel with flex shaft, and a good light are the tools I use most. If you build from plans, a scroll saw would be a nice luxury. Scott |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
As you dive into it, you'll find that you need a multitude of different tools. Collect them as you need them, no reason to go bankrupt all at once. If you're using a desktop, just make sure that it is flat, with no twists. Thats very important when you lay up a wing or fuse in order to build it straight. You will need something to pin parts down on while building... I use cork bulletin boards with the frame removed(try office supply wholesalers). The bigger, the better. I have also used the fiberboard ceiling panels, but haven't been able to find any recently for some reason.
If you're building from magazine plans, normally they will have a build article along with them - that's your instruction book. Of course, you can always ask the penut gallery( us! ) anytime you get stuck. ;) |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
Also, check in the back(advertising section) of Model Airplane News Magazines, they have a series of books covering various skills that help a lot.
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RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I build on 2' by 4' ceiling tiles.
Do I understand that you wish to jump from ARF's to scratch building and skip the kits ? A kit or two will teach you a bunch. And a good kit even tells you what tools you will need. 25 years in this hobby, nearly 40 in modelling, and almost every year I run across some tool I can't live without . The more tools you have, the more jams you can get out of, thats all. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
First, I recommend that you don't think "cheap". You really get what you pay for. Your workbench is the foundation of your shop, so it's worth investing money into. You can get by with less expensive items in other areas - especially seldom used tools, but build the best bench you can afford. Additionally, make it as big as you can. I have two benches, but could use six and I'm not kidding about that.
I have my main bench that I build on and a utility bench that I do dirty work on (metal work and other tasks that create crud I don't want on my main bench). These pages on my website are pretty much all the tools I have. There is very little else that I want. I never thought I'd say that, but the more I look at tools, the less I see that I think would do much more than what I have now. [link=http://airfieldmodels.com/information_source/model_building_tools/index.htm]Model Building Tools[/link] |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I concur with building a few kits first. That will introduce a few tricks of the trade. When I'm scratch building, I use tracing paper and pencil to make my templates then stick them to the wood with 3m77 (just a light dusting of spray), but there are a bunch of other ways of doing that and I'm sure others will chime in on that. Its just the way I prefer to do it. You already have one of the tools I consider to be indespensable, a dremil. The other power tools that I use the most are a jig saw, 1" verticle belt sander, and bench top drill press. When I cut out parts I cut up to 1/16" to 1/8" away from the line, then use the belt sander to finish sand up to the line. During the building process you need to check your alignment. I have 2 incedence meters (a home made and a robart), serveral pocket levels and bubble levels, clamps, (you wont know what kind you like until you see them and the application you need them for). I use weights (bar bell type), sockets and homemade angle brakets for holding the fuse down and straight. Lead shot bags for holding sheeting down on the wings and so on. I have 2 work benchs for building. My flat surface is 2x4 formica covered shelf board with ceiling tile and an old herman miller office desk top thats 5.5' long for most of the big wings. Anything bigger will get a cabinet top from the hardware store. I dont use doors anymore cause mine havent been holding up and staying flat. I know others in my club that dont have any problem with doors. Most of the tools are personal preference. You basically look at what you need to accomplish and figure out what tool would do. If you have to make it, then make it. If you can buy it, then buy it. Its your call.
Edwin |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
Your best bet (IMHO) is to jump right in and purchase tools as you need them - I think there is an infinite number of tools for this hobby :) at least I can't keep up with 'em all!
Congrats on your decision to 'build'....it is a great part of the hobby! Jerry |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
As long as you are in this hobby, you will be buying tools.
Sanding blocks are a must. I like the T-Bar sanders from Great Planes. I have 3, each with a different grit. You are way ahead of the game with the Dremel tool. You will need a covering iron and heat gun. The list is endless. I use one of the building boards from Great Planes. As long as you are in this hobby, you will be buying tools. I know I said that already but its an absolute fact. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
Looking at the list of tools that one collects in the course of building, I feel so discouraged knowing that I only have a dremel and electric hand drill. Seems like if I want to build from plans, a jig saw and a drill press are really good investments for cutting out those "difficult" shapes that would be impossible for a hand saw to achieve.
Even with the right tools, I think scratch building is an art. Two people with the same tools could end up with completely different outcomes from the same plans. There is so much to learn... I'd like to know how to fabricate a canopy or fiberglass cowl from scratch? After looking at all the above suggestions, I think the next logical step for me to take would be to build from a kit first, before venturing to building from plans. Of course, there's always the lazy way out for me... ARFs! :D |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I scratch build, build from plans, build craftsman level kits, build quick-built or lazer cut kits and assemble ARFS. You will learn more with some kits than others.
The new lazer cut kits are wonderful. They assemble like a jigsaw puzzle but only teach you the most basic skills. The "quick built" level kits usually are die cut but need little more skill than the laser cuts. The craftsman kits may be a little over the head of a first time builder. They require carving and fabricating skills that will stretch you toward building from plans. Building from plans requires you to cut each part precisely. Seldom are all the steps explained or even mentioned. Often the designer assumes you know the next few steps. Scratch building is a whole different thing. You start with a blank sheet of paper and start designing. You may start with a concept, a scale three view or resize an existing plan. (I call it scratch building when you resize a plan because the structure will seldom be the same as the original that was a different size.) The CG, control locations, and details are all yours to specify. Usually those who try to advance too fast end up throwing away their failed attempt. Take the steps you feel comfortable with. Don't frustrate yourself by tackling too much at once. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I make most my planes from plans or kits and will go with everyone on this, you should build A kit or two first then go to plans building, there are some very good easy to build from plans planes out there. Tools for both types of building other then your basics, the Dremel flex shaft tool and A hand drill. Down the road for plans building you will want A sander with disc and drum and A small jig saw. A big vise is A great help. My building board is 6foot by 18 inch by 3/4 inch pine with bracing on the bottom to keep it from warping. Pine is soft enough to let you push in your T-pins by hand. Tools will come along as you need them so don't go into debt for them but A Dremel and building board is very important.
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RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
You can also start out with "modern" kits and move to "classic" no longer made kits. Case in point might be the Tower Hobbies Kaos vs a Great Planes Super Kaos. Pretty much the same plane but more building skills would be needed for the older Super Kaos than the newer Tower Kaos.
The Tower Kaos kit came with an illustrated instruction book. The Super Kaos came with an illustrated instruction sheet. The GP Super Kaos needs a lot more shaping and sanding than the Tower Kaos. The Bridi Utter Kaos, Killer Kaos, and Brezee kits come with several typewritten sheets and no illustrations. All have full size plans tho. I have a stack of various Kaos kits (Bridi, GP, Tower) and cant decide whether to go for one of the GP ones, a Bridi one, or the much more easily built Tower Kaos. I have built the Tower Kaos before and know how "easy" it is. The other versions are a bit daunting for me right now. I recently built a Super Sportster 20 and it was a harder build than anything else I have built up to date. Probably a piece of cake and could be built in the sleep of most of the guys here but was a decent challenge for me. Got a twin engine SS 40 conversion project waiting for my skills and confidence to improve but I dont think I am ready to try it just yet. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I would like to respond though I dont feel I even belong in the same forum as some of these expert builders. I started building the rubber powered guillows planes when I was younger and a few years ago decided to try one again for my son, who was about 3. Oh and I did these without knowing anything about CA so it was all done with wood glue. I liked it even more this time around and it started growing. I bought a Laser 3D laser kit off ebay knowing I could not fly it yet and I put it together in 2 weeks! Of course this time I started using superglue, still didn't know what CA was. Finally went to the LHS and bought some CA and a Elder 40 elec kit. Got home and looked at the plans and wood only kit and decided it was too far advanced for me. Last year I picked up a PT20 (yes I know it is too small for a good trainer) to learn to fly and to learn more about building. This one too was very easy, but I covered my first plane. I think it looks like garbage, but I have seen some of them in the LHS and mine is as good as some of those. While I was building this one I got a GP Basic Trainer (elec) to help learn how to fly. Also got a GWS trainer and started to learn to fly. Long story short, I started a TF P-51 last winter and should finish it this winter (no I haven't touched it since March). I guess I am hooked because I just bought a TF corsair but this time I am thinking of trying that Elder 40 first.
I guess my point is just like everyone else's. Do not try to build beyond your skill. If you are not ready for the kit then get one that you can build and wait on the nice one. I you made a mistake and bought it (like I do often) then let it sit until you are ready. Oh and if you are looking for tools, dont forget the garage sales, family, and friends. I have a nice old ban saw that works perfectly. I too have a dremel and have made plenty of sanding blocks along with the GP block. I also use a lot of nail files and made painters stick sandblocks. I have even made a couple very skinny sanding blocks...yes I am getting a little crazy with the blocks....and long winded. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
Just wait a second Bowfish....you actually BUILT a Gullows kit? And you talk about not belonging 'in' with expert builders - HA! You my sir ARE an expert builder if you have done what you said you did - Gullows - WOW!!!! I'm impressed :)
Jerry |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I'm not much of a Great Planes fan, but I must admit that their T-bar sanders are very good. I'd like to have a half dozen of them. The old T-bar sanders I had were actually T shaped which were flexible and fatigued my hand.
Bowfish - you sound like you're on your way to becoming a hard-core builder. Most of us took a similar path to yours. I started with Guillows and Comet kits and ruined all of them. I had absolutely no patience as a kid. If you can build one of those satisifactorily, then you can build any sport R/C model. They need to change the boxes of Guillows kits so they don't say ages 8-14 any more. Instead they should say, "Minimum of 30 years model building experience before even looking at the box - 40 years before attempting to construct the contents." Back to tools. As has been said, you simply can't have enough sanding blocks. I make new blocks with every project. I probably have over 100 of them now in all shapes and sizes. They seriously improve the quality of your work and make things a lot easier. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
Wow thanks I really didn't know guillows were all that bad...frustrating at times because you must read EVERY insert on the page before starting otherwise you miss something...did that plenty. But yes I did build a couple and still have one framed up ready for tissue and dope and final assemby...dont know when I will do that one. My headache finally went away after doping the last one! I completely agree on the age range. My 8 year old could not build that kit...he can tear up some legos but not this kit. Guess I will look at that Elders again. :)
Oh and I also want to suggest that you either get a straight edge or use a floresent light bulb to make sure your building board is straight before each kit. If you have humidity like we do here in SE Texas this is a requirement. Robert |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I would like to extend my appreciation to all who contributed to this very inspirational thread. Please continue to expand this thread so that people like me, who have no kit/scratch/plan building experience, can learn from your experiences.
Personally, I found this discussion to be most helpful for those who are toying with the idea of progressing from ARFs to building. Scratch and plan builders, I haven't seen anyone reply on how to fabricate your own cowling or canopy...Do you usually buy a commercially available one? I have decided that my next plane will be an easy to build laser-cut kit, though I'm not intending to buy one so soon... |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
This is not the best forum to ask about fabricating the parts for a unique project. Canopys and cowls may be found from a similar size kit or similar units may be altered to suit. Wing manufacturing, SIG, and others have quite a selection that may be used as is or altered. Canopys are usually vacuum-formed. There are commercially available vacuum-formers or kits and plans to make your own. Cowls may be vacuum formed of fiberglass the latter usually being better. There are many threads on how to accomplish fabrication on the composites forum. For the novice it may be better to order one from the large selection at Stan's Fibertech or one of the many other fiberglass speciality companies.
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RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
ORIGINAL: MikeSell This is not the best forum to ask about fabricating the parts for a unique project. Canopys and cowls may be found from a similar size kit or similar units may be altered to suit. Wing manufacturing, SIG, and others have quite a selection that may be used as is or altered. Canopys are usually vacuum-formed. There are commercially available vacuum-formers or kits and plans to make your own. Cowls may be vacuum formed of fiberglass the latter usually being better. There are many threads on how to accomplish fabrication on the composites forum. For the novice it may be better to order one from the large selection at Stan's Fibertech or one of the many other fiberglass speciality companies. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
ORIGINAL: CafeenMan I'm not much of a Great Planes fan, but I must admit that their T-bar sanders are very good. I'd like to have a half dozen of them. The old T-bar sanders I had were actually T shaped which were flexible and fatigued my hand. Bowfish - you sound like you're on your way to becoming a hard-core builder. Most of us took a similar path to yours. I started with Guillows and Comet kits and ruined all of them. I had absolutely no patience as a kid. If you can build one of those satisifactorily, then you can build any sport R/C model. They need to change the boxes of Guillows kits so they don't say ages 8-14 any more. Instead they should say, "Minimum of 30 years model building experience before even looking at the box - 40 years before attempting to construct the contents." <====LOL! :D Back to tools. As has been said, you simply can't have enough sanding blocks. I make new blocks with every project. I probably have over 100 of them now in all shapes and sizes. They seriously improve the quality of your work and make things a lot easier.<====true! Believe it or not, If built per the plans, they actually fly pretty decently with 1/2a or electric power. I started building them when I was around 10 or so, and have to admit, I screwed a few up before I got the knack of it. If you can build a Gullows, you can build any kit out there, and could probably scratch build with a little practice. ;) |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
ORIGINAL: cwrr5 Aw, come on! Gullows kits are'nt that bad! Glue piece "a" to piece "b", making sure that pieces "c","d","e","f", and "g" conform to the shape of pieces "h","i","j", and the other half of the fuselage, oh, and bend piece "k" to this shape........ ok, well, I guess they do take some effort. :D Believe it or not, If built per the plans, they actually fly pretty decently with 1/2a or electric power. I started building them when I was around 10 or so, and have to admit, I screwed a few up before I got the knack of it. If you can build a Gullows, you can build any kit out there, and could probably scratch build with a little practice. ;) The only thing I would change would be to start using better quality wood. They tend to include petrified balsa. I have a Sopwith Camel that I plan to convert to R/C some day, but the kit is really old and was in storage the whole time I was in the service. The kit was in the same box as my wife's perfume, so I'll have the sexiest smelling camel of all time. :D I'll probably end up replacing almost all of the wood because it's very heavy. I was going to use a diesel, but I've gotten into electrics a little bit and will use a small AXI motor instead most likely |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I build from plans and scratch. I also build kits. I actually have few tools compared to others. i have untill recently had a cheap scroll saw from sears. Some home made sanding bars and blocks. A #1 hobby knife. A staright edge, pins a bunch of clamps and some triangles. A hand drill and some bits covering iron a balsa stripper and a coupla robart foam stands and an incidence meter.
That's about it. maybe a few hex keys, screw drivers and so on. I do not even have a Dremmel tool. Never had a need for it. I work mostly by hand. I like it that way. Gives me a great feeling hand fitting wood. So I will go against the grain here. The above tools have stood me well over the years. Now I will admit I have gotten a few goodies recently. I have discovered a BAAAADDDD place. We have a Grizzley store 45 minuits away from my house. My God what a place. Any toy you could imagine at a real good price. They do sell mail order. The web site is WWW.Grizzley.com. They sell tools at a great price. And they are of great quality too. I would point out all of you builders should look in. A variable speed scroll saw 16" that uses pinned blades for less than 90 bucks. You cannot beat it. I just bought a 14" band saw with a for real rip fence. It is very, very well built with all the goodies usch as roller bearing guides top and bottom with stand for 375$. Give them a look. You will be amazed at what you can get for so little. Anyway welcome to the world of the craftsman. Mark Shuman (edit) a good bench can be built cheap. Get a piece of 3/4 MDF from your local lumber yard. Rip it lengthwise. Most places will rip it for you for a coupla bucks. Get some 1 1/4 wood screws and screw it together from both sides. Plop it on your desk and you are set. Cover it with 2 2x4 Cellotex ceiling tiles screwed face down. You now have a flat surface you can build on. Mine is plywood and on a set of folding table legs. Works well for me. |
RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
Morning. may I ask what the fellows at your local field in Perth are useing in their build projects? have you asked them? its all a very personal deal, one guy can create a master piece with a very few tools, another does the same master piece with a shop full of support tools. I would suggest the basic ones 1st and then expand. don't ask which are the basic ones, it will open an other whole discussion foreum. dick
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RE: TOOLS & SKILLS OF THE BUILDER
I fly ARTFs, got 2, and I am looking for advice about building from a plan, any advice? (mostly on building a wing of a zero fighter) Thankz! [8D]
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