Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Flyinblind
I think your on the right track, depending on the engine of choice the split elevator may not be necessary. Personally if I do build this model or any other large bipe for that matter, I would not use strip aileron wire controls too much flexing with them having to move 2 ailerons on each side. Get them servos out on the wing it's an easy mod and avoid that flutter.

Patrick

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Thanks Pat!
I'm using a Magnum 1.20 four stroke on this bird. I had considered a gas motor like a Homelite or G23, but I like the sound of the four stroke. And besides it's lighter than the gassers. I'm trying to keep it light for better flying charactoristics. I'm not into allot of speed and just getting into mild aerobatics, so this bipe will be eased into things mildly. So, split the elevator or not. That decesion dictates the work scheme for their installation.

Thanks again for the input,
Loren
www.proptwisters.org

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I definitely agree on putting the aileron servos out in the wing. Just make the hatches about halfway out on the wings and use the covers for the servo mounts.
I activated the upper wing ailerons with 4-40 rods between the trailing edges of the ailerons. I used 4-40 throughout except on throttle where I used ny-rod. Pull pull and split elevator sounds good, although I didn't have them on mine. If I were doing it again, I'd definitely do the pull pull and possibly the split elevator as it makes fine tuning that surface much easier.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I too have a P90 kit that I've been intending to build since '97....and a NIB Magnum .91 XL 4 stroke to put in it.....

I was just wondering if the engine is gonna be enuff to pull it....

My plans have been wet or something....kinda faded in places..... I just wondered if the plans are still available from Sig for the older kit...it's not the newer updated version...... Also.....just wondering what mods were made to the newer kits over the older ones.....

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Hi Greg,
What did your P90 weith in at with the gas motor? Did you use a standard servo (40+ ozs. torque) or higher torque servos. I'll be using a new Hitec 6 channel with 422's, but think it may be better to use 545BB or 605's, except on the throttle of course.I'm really getting a kick from building this kit. I think the word "kit" must mean "work it over" in Hobbianese or something. Being able to make changes to this plane has been fun.Now I just hope it flies!! And using this RCU forum has been a great asset of information that normally wouldn't be available. Thanks for the input!!

Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Loren, I never weighed mine but I'd estimate it was near 14 pounds at the most. I used standard Futaba 148s and never had a problem. Of course theres' nothing wrong with overkill on servos I guess as long as your battery pack is up to it.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I purchased a 1400 mA NiH pack for this application. If I can get a good price on the 545s, I'll go with them. Like I said, I'm not blasting through the skies, doing knife edges, inside-outside loops, 3D and all that (yet). just enjoying the flying aspect of it all. Yet, I do want to build a quiality plane with good gear and be proud of my craftmanship.

Thanks again,
Loren

Phaeton 90 bipeI am building a p90
 

I am building a p90,a couple of months into the project.Every since I started,I have been trying to find information about this plane,as the instructions leave a lot to the builder to figure out.This will be the largest plane that I have built,having only done 40 size planes,and that was in 1989.Have'nt flown since then.After finding this site this morning and reading the posts,most of the questions I had are answered.I was concerned as to wheather standard servoes would have what it takes to handle the rudder and elevator.I bought some coreless ball bearing Futabas in the 60 oz. range for that.I was not sure about the one servo for the alierons,and you guys have convinced me to go with two.I will be useing a OS 108 FSR for power and hope that will be enough.I never thought about useing a gas engine.So,what in the end,I have no questions,as they have all been answered.Thanks.By the way,I bought a Fiberglass Specialties cowl for my p90 and it looks great.Should start covering next week.Thanks much guys,and as I have always known,you meet the best people at the flying field.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Hey Balsa Brain,
What cowling did you buy, with part number? I have been looking for a radial type of cowl, since the stock one just doesn't do anything for me. I'm putting a Magnum 120 Four Stroke in mine and would like to cover it up with something a little more attractive.

Thanks,
Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Flyin Blind,I'm not sure of the part number for the cowl I bought,but it is like the one that comes with the kit,only made a lot better.Just go to their web site and I am fairly sure they will have something that will fit your needs.Best I remember,they have hundreds of cowls,wheelpants,ect.Good luck and the radial look should look great on your plane,wish I had thought of it.

Great Flying,
Bill

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

:spinnyeye I'm ready to frame up the wings, and was wondering about the N struts and cabanes. Anyone changed the attachment points or configurations of these? I'd like to incorporate any changes before the wing is built, so if you have any 20/20 "If I was doing it again" thoughts please post them.

Thanks, :cool:
Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I'd laminate some balsa sticks to the wire after I assembled the struts and cabanes then put a little fiberglass cloth or something similar on for strength. Strenth of the wood that is. That's the way I'm doing them on the EAA Bipe I'm fiinishing now and it looks a thousand per cent better than the bare wire I had on my Phaeton. See below.
The attachment method given in the instructions works ok but is a little tedious when you go to the field. I really haven't worked out a better way to do that but I know there is one. There's gotta be.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Hi Greg,
Thanks for the tip. Have you looked through Harry Higley's "Bipes" book? I recently picked up "Bipes" and "Mostly Mounting", from a fellow getting out of RC. They are VERY informative. Some great tips, that I can incorporate into this P90.
Is that the BUSA EAA bipe? What are you powering it with? Looks like an inverted four stroke. You are using flying wires on the tail also? I like the Wood on the N struts and cabanes. Isn't there a source for wood with an airfoiled routed profile somewhere?

Thanks again,
Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

No, I don't have that book but I really need it. I've got two of his other books and I know the bipe book is up to the same level of quality. I just used something like 3/16 by 1/2 and ca'd to the rear of the wire. I then added a little filler to smooth the joints and stuff. Next, I sanded a slight airfoil shape to the wood and faired it all in. I also added little strips of fiberglass cloth (.6oz) to strengthen the joints and harden the soft balsa. A friend building the Phaeton II just covered his with the same cloth he covered the plane with. Simpler than my method and looks good.
Yes, it's the BUSA kit. Guess you can tell I kinda like the ol' fashioned builders kits. The photo is of my first one. I lost the battery on the third flight and rather than repair, I decided to build another. I've still got the fuse and I started out just to build a set of wings but.......I'll probably bash the old fuse into something later. Maybe a parasol or low wing sport plane. It's fitted with an inverted Magnum 120. It ran flawlessly that way and I hope it continues to give the same service.
It was a good, stable flyer but a pretty squirrely on the ground. I made some building errors in the first one (banana fuse) that contributed to the problem. I did my best to avoid all that with this one.
I only wish it was a little bigger. About the size of the Phaeton 90 would be ideal.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

FYI: I found some "Basswood Shaped Wood Struts" at Balsa USA. Yeah!
$4@ 42".Might be perfect.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Wow...That is good to know! I would think that if you assemble them properly, they could even replace the wire ones rather than just dress them up. Thanks for the tip!

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I am getting ready to join the lower wing halves together and I was wondering about the stock dihedral for this wing. It calls for a 2" block on one side, or 1" on both sides for the angle. Could this wing be built with 0 degrees or flat? Would this affect the plane's performance? It would be easier to sheet the center section if it was flat. But that is the least of the considerations if the wing needs this diheral built in.

Thanks,
Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

What you have to consider is that the N struts may not be long enough after you do that. Then you have to contend with compensating for that as opposed to a minor inconvenience in sheeting the center section. Of course, if you're going to make your struts from the basswood, then you just compensate for the length needed.
Don't know what effect removing the dihedral would be...It's such a small amount to begin with, I think it's mainly cosmetic. A flat wing tends to give the appearance of anhedral, or a droopy look.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

After looking at the wing, I decided that the 1" dihedral on each side was, like you said, minimal. Sheeting won't be that much of a problem. It would be nice if Balsa USA updated the design of the wing a little more. I can see that there is plenty of room for a better design. But why change something that is proven and cheap to kit? I'm keeping a log book of my chnages, with associated artiles and patterns for future use. When I build my next P90, it WILL be a better plane.

Thanks again for your input,
Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

Hey this thread kinda slowed down, what's the deal?!!
I am planning on where the tank is going to be mounted. The plans call for the tank to be forward of the wing. But looking at some other larger planes, they are mounting the tank near or at the balance point. I just received the engine (Madnum 120 4c) and motor mount, so will be drilling the firewall and assembling the fuselage sides and formers. But if I need to modify the forward formaer for the tank I want to do it before it's in for good.
And then there's the landing gear. Is the stock 5/32" music wire suffiicent for this bipe? I'm considering adding a supporting wire leg to the stock wire, or going with a flat aluminum sheet type of gear.
Any thoughts on these areas? Thanks guys.
Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I'm not sure but I don't think the Magnum will pull fuel that far. I cut a hatch on the bottom of the fuse for access to the tank. As for the landing gear, you're absolutely right. It's too flimsy in my opinion. I did just what you're talking about with the crosspiece. The Dural gear would be nice too and probably look better.

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

How big of a fuel tank is usually installed on this size of bipe. I have the Magnum 120 4C. The fuselage has lots of room, but I am not sure how big I should go. I'm also looking at installing a canopy instead of an open cockpit. I think a 4 Star 60 canopy may work. I guess it will hard to tell what this bipe started out as, with all of the modifications. Oh well! I already have my next bipe spyed out. I I just bought a set of plans from a club member for a Standard Lazy Ace (76"wingspan). Oh boy?!

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

flyinblind,I've got a 20 oz. in mine,but I'm using a 108 FSR OS for power and I did not want to be cut short on flight time.Never used a two stroke that big and have'nt run the OS yet,but I think I can count on that sucker doing in some fuel.I was going to be covering a week or so ago,but am bashing the upper wing for alierons.

Bill :)

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

I'm in the process of adding upper ailerons also. I wanted the plane to be light and didn't want to go too big on the tank. I have a 20 oz. I could put in it or a 16. I guess I just need to decide.I'm also adding two more center bays with sheeting on the top wing for added strength. My motor mount should be here tomorrow, so that I can drill the firewall and get the fuselage glued up. It will go together quickly after that.. Looking forward to setting it up and covering it. How about some pix when you get to covering?

Loren

Balsa USA Phaeton 90 Bipe
 

flyinblind,the 4 stroke should get you better mileage than what I expect to see from my 2 stroke,so the smaller tank should do you good.One problem I had was when I was trying to glue the curved section behind the engine was that my helper and I got a little in front of each other and wrinkeled the material suppiled with the kit and I had to cut it out,go buy new 1/32th plywood and do it again.I made an additional former and spaced them out to get more support and glueing area.It is fine now.I build much slower than you and will post some pictures later.I can't wait to fly this plane but I don't build at such a pace that it seems like a job that I have to make myself do.It's a hobby,should be relaxing and that is how I am going to approach my 3rd time getting into rc.