Kit Builders Unite!
 

I am returning back to the hobby after a decade of absence. The changes are quite interesting although the preponderance of ARFs over kits definitely has me concerned. I love to both build and fly. The building provides me with a great deal of relaxation, so needless to say, I am concerned at the number of kit manufacturers that seem to have disappeared in my absence. It seems that some venerable kits are disappearing before our eyes. I notice that Great Planes Sportsters and Trainers (symmetrical wing) are gone. I also recall that Top Flite had some scale German fighter kits that no longer seem to be available. Dave Platt models seems to be missing in action.

What has the members of this community witnessed on this topic over the last few years? Is it time for me to start stocking up on kits while they are still available?

Thanks to all who participate in this forum. Happy building and flying!

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Sometimes it looks like kit building is becoming a lost art. Scratch building is dwindling fast, too. It's so sad. Many of the venerable legends of R/C are perhaps gone for good. I've never built an ARF for myself in over 20 years, and never will. I'll quit the hobby first. Kit building is fun and exciting. I fully understand how the plane is constructed. I oversee each step personally, so I know how it's built. I am able to re-engineer if necessary and to redesign if wanted. The work is mine, and to me, there's a lot of pride in that statement. If you see a kit, especially an older one, that you like, I'd snap it up.

Dr.1

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I, too have returned to R/C after having been out since the early '90s. I share your sentiments, and the ARF debate has gotten a lot of bandwidth here.

I have basically resigned myself to building from plans. They are available for all the great designs. Besides, I've gotten so picky about balsa that I'd just as soon cut my own parts.

AMA acquired the Pond collection, so along with the Model Aviation plans there are plenty there to keep me busy for years. Then there's the RCM, Flying Models and Bill Northrop (Model Builder) collections, as well. Most anything you want to fly, you can.

The Ebay prices for kits is ludicrous. A Top Flite Taurus just went for $744.77.

My first plane after getting back is a Sr. Falcon that I built from Pond plans. The most fun I ever remember having in this hobby. Here's my build thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3426764/tm.htm

Welcome back!

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

You're not serious?!?!?! $750 for a Taurus? I wouldn't pay that for one built, RTF with all the equipment! Gee, I might put some of my stuff up on auction! LOL!

Dr.1

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I too have just come back from a 20 year absence. I remember that if you wanted to fly R/C, you also had to build your aircraft. The hobby was made up of those two aspects. Seems for many people to have gone down the road of instant gratification. I would really like to see some old time skill and aircraft distinction still show up at the flying field.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

The sad truth is that the base of the hobby has changed. Technology was supposed to free up more time for everyone, but it has become the way in which most people spend much of their time (I'm writing on an internet forum right now!). Given the choice between using their free time to build models or to surf the web and play video games, most people today will choose the latter and simply buy ARFs instead.

Just think if all the time spent staring at computer screens and being bombarded with pop-up ads was directed towards a more constructive activity like building model airplanes. Oh well, times change.

You can do your part by building the great classics from plans and when they ask you at the field where they can buy one, just tell them you can't.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I always wonder about people who "don't have time" to build. thats like saying you you don't have time to rejuvenate yourself. Personally, I have plenty of time, but I remember when I was a kid, my dad worked 10-12 hr a day, my mom was home with 3 kids, and he still had plenty of time to build, and thankfully, teach me.
I do [put an ARF together sometimes while I am working on a large project, but I sure do like to build, and amaze all the "flyers" at my field.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I too love to build from kits and hope to build from plans soon but I do fly ARFs as well. ARFs allowed me to learn to fly without risking all the time and effort that goes into a kit. There seems to be a general consensus that kit building is on the decline (not sure this is true or not but sounds right) and if so I think we should be thankful for ARFs for the following reasons:

1. Overall there will be more RC pilots being trained because of ARFs.
a. More pilots equals more potential kit builders.
b. More pilots equals more potential flying fields.
c. More pilots equals more radios/engines/accessories sold -- good for mfg/distributors/hobby shops
d. More sales in the hobby supply chain equals more stuff developed or upgraded that will .

I don't see ARFs as a threat to kit building but major factor in preserving kit building.

If there were no ARF's I suspect many more R/C hobby suppliers would disappear and that would not help the kit builder or ARF customer. I agree that the number of commercial kits have dwindled the last 10 years but better that than no kits, no engines no radios, etc. I think as long as there are good radios and engines and plans available kit building will continue. In a sense ARF's are really supporting kit builders.



This is just my opinion -- no need to beat me up if you disagree:D:D

Mark

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I am new to the hobby myself, used to look at the tower hobbies catalogs when I was in high school and drool over the cool kits and such. I built a few stick-and-tissue rubber powered free flighters back then (early 90's). I have a decent job now with enough extra income that I can finally do what I dreamed of back then. So I go to tower hobbies website and get a catalog sent to me... It is almost appaling to me to see how many ARF's there are now. I remember the old catalogs had 2 or 3 ARFs and all the rest were kits, now there are more ARF planes than there are kits. I don't like this trend myself, I personally enjoy the process of building a plane. I just finished building a 2M sailplane kit (dynaflite daydream) and as soon as I had it all finished and covered... I was ready to go build another!! In fact.. the only reason I have not ordered another kit, is because #1 my wife has convinced me that I need to fly this one a few times before I jump into another build, and #2 its christmas time and I should really spend that extra chash spoiling my kids ;p. I used to play alot of video games online, thats been my 'hobby' for the last few years infact. Since I got the sailplane kit, when I go to play games, I just cant stay focused and I end up quitting the game and surfing the web for building tips, articles, kits to drool over etc. Im hooked and I havent even caught a thermal with my daydream yet! (the hi-start arrived yesterday, going to get my first launches this weekend as long as the weather holds :D).

Anyway, I guess I should close this, so in short, I really really really don't want to see kits go away! I love building, it is a process of creation that has no match for me.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Mark,
That was a very astute reply. You have some really valid points about ARF builders helping the hobby. And they do, just not the niche of the kit builder.

I have seen the changes the modern world has wrought and I have to question whether we will be better off in the long run. Things like digital cameras. By embracing that technology, the user becomes a more involved part of the photo-finishing process. Instead of letting the lab give us the prints, we end up looking at them on the computer printing them ourselves or maybe sending them to a local store for printing. And 30 years from now, instead of finding a box of prints to bring back wonderful memories, we'll only have CDs....... if we're lucky. Will we have the technology to see the photos stored on those in the future?

How about music? Instead of permanent recordings on CD or LP, we have iPods. We have to hand select every song we load. Granted, the selection is broad and getting broader, but I choose not to invest the time in this pursuit.

My point is this. We find the time to invest in the activites we enjoy, whether they save us time or not. Let's enjoy our building opportunities and snap up some quality kits while we can at reasonable prices and keep the manufacturers in business.

Mike

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Some really great posts here. I have also returned after a 25+ year sabbatical. I never have and never will fly an ARF (probably). Just old school i guess. Besides,winters here in Wyoming can be long and cold (32 deg below 0 night before last) too danged cold to fly. So if youv'e got a passion for airplanes,why not build when you cant fly?

TO CREATE IS TO LIVE

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Mike ---

I agree with much of what you say. I never thought I would see the day that I would email someone sitting 20 feet from me instead of getting up and going over and talking to them on the other hand I never thought I could sit in my living room and email people all over the planet. The first case of emailing someone 20 feet away is pretty lame the fact I can pretty much email someone anywhere on the planet is pretty amazing. I think each generation has had to deal with technological change but it is just moving much faster today than ever before. I think everyone thinks back to a simpler time or a happier time in their life - for some of us it is building RC airplane kits. For me building a kit gives me a sense of accomplishment, memories of time with my father and boyhood, and a little escape from the everyday world. I am happy for the airplane kits that are out there will buy kits as I find the ones I like but I think the real future for kit builders is plans and custom cutters. If you have quality radios and engines which I contend are a result of ARFs and plans from Ziroli, Palmer, etc and custom cutters we have kits for life.

Sorry if I dragged this a little off topic -- probably belongs in Clubhouse. Oh well too late.

Happy Holidays to all.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I agree ARF's got me back in to the hobby... All the repairs I had to make because of shoty workmanship got me in to building:D

My Super Tiger Easy Trainer was truely Almost Ready to Fall apart (ARF) but after making some modifcations its holding up well now.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I have several digital cameras too and it has opened a few doors as far as processing goes. But, before these cameras I did my own darkroom work for a while. We had a class on photography in highschool and the neat part was that we built our cameras.

I am beginning to buy kits and store them away. I sure don't want to run out of planes to build.

I have to disagree about iPods. I felt the same way when my wife bought hers and asked me to manage the music. They are neat things to have. I have my own now and I found that I build much faster if I have headphones on to drown out household noise, domestic disturbances, etc. It also keeps me on focus and I don't tinker around. I just build. I also take mine in the car and it can run music through the home stereo units. Neat. It beats playing all of those old albums that I still have, or the Clear Channel crap on most radio stations.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I have to agree with the comments made about the positive influence of ARFs. They are the gateway into the hobby these days.

But I also see a trend that is already solidly in place in areas like free flight and maybe even C/L: that of the small home-based operations that cater to special interests. For the last ten years I built nothing but free flight models. Almost everything I needed I had to order from one-man businesses and small companies that I can't imagine made much of a profit. They offered their products because they were passionate about quality and preserving a specific area of modeling. There are a number of such people in R/C that have decided to "keep alive" some aspect of the hobby that the giant mail order conglomerates long since cast aside (think vintage and early pattern).

The fact that what you need to fly in SAM can't be found in the Tower catalog (coils, plugs, timers, etc.) hasn't really hurt things. It just means you end up supporting other like-minded modelers with your hobby dollars instead of the internet giants. If R/C building does come to that, I think it will be ok. I'd rather buy a kit from someone I will likely see in person at a fly-in anyway. In other words, they almost always fly what they sell.

So, in short, it's as good a time as any to seek out those small companies that still have the modelers' interests at heart and support them. They may be all we'll have in five years.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Getting back on track--- I have a Sig 4 *60 kit that is complete except for covering -- can't get motivated to cover -- anyway it will be powered by an O.S. 61FX. I really need to get this done. I guess I am not as jazzed over this because almost everyone seems to have one.

I have started a BTE "Flyin' King" and it is on the table now. I am just about done with the wing. It has been a fun kit and very satisfying to build -- the wood was perfect and tht instructions are great. I have purchased an OS 91FSII to power it. I love this kit so much I may purchase a 2nd one just cuz.

I purchased a "Sig Sealane" still in the box waiting for the "Flyin' King" to be completed. I am still not sure why I bought it -- guess I never had a seaplane and wanted to give it a try.

I was surfing the net the other night and discovered this site :

http://www.teamduster.com/pages/1/index.htm

They have a 72" Air Tractor crop duster "coming soon" -- it looks like fun -- so I emailed them to get on the list. I am excited about this -- think it will be fun to bring a plane to the field that is a little "different".

I think I enjoy building kits as much as flying them but if they couldn't fly I wouldn't build them.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Not to worry gents.

Every estate sale in the world finds its way to Ebay. Companies have indeed gone out of business. But with the advent of Ebay, you can find someone somewhere that has what you want. You just need to shift your perspective. In one way, we have more choices now then ever before. You can buy the newest, latest, and greatest or the oldest, most memorable, and desired kit of your youth.

Cheer up. We are dinosaurs. Be proud of it. And Get your Purina Dinosaur Chow on Ebay !!

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I too came back one year ago after 10 years away from the hobby. At first I was pretty excited about the ARFs that were available. But I soon figured out that to have them built to my specifications I basically was stripping them down and reinforcing or redoing most of the work. After doing this several times I decided that I might as well build the whole thing myself. There are many threads on this site about structural failures and 95% of them are ARFs. I've never been concerned about the structural integrity of a model I've built myself.

Having said all that, they do allow people who would never have the time or spend the effort on a kit build to fly RC models.... And that's the point. I do wish there were a few more kit builders.

270

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I agree about checking ebay every so often. You can find some good kits if you are patient....and don't get caught up in a bidding frenzy. It can be discouraging at times, but the moon changes phases, or something, and prices turn reasonable again. Odd.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

At my local flying feild there are about ten guys there that frown on guys who scractch build or design planes themselves. Out of the whole club I am the only one who scratches planes out there and only two guys who kit build. Generly speeking guys who used to kit build and crash those planes rebuy an arf to replace it. This summer I finally got one of my designs out to the feild after it being on the board for two years only to get laughed at for my efforts. To bad it is the only feild within driveing distance. So i laugh back and feel sorry for them becuse of all the fun I am having.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

Dear mimhoff. Their is ALOT more guys leaving the hobby because of being bored from lack of involvment buying a china arf! Can you tell us honestly most people dont have the time now a days to build a kit over a winter season. I have trained lots of father and son teams and their is a BIG difference after the first flight with ones who spend time to build!!! Many newbees leave because arfs are a stinking TOY!!!!!!!! KELLDOG

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I've seen the same thing that kelldog describes. The new guy brings a plane to the field built with the junk hardward that comes with most ARFs and it's sometimes not even flyable. And like I've said before, almost every structural failure I've seen has been an ARF. One thing that amazes me is that as most of them are built you are never instructed to glass the center section of the wing?!?!? Every time I advise new guys to do that they look at my like I've got 3 heads.... Anyway, I'm done with ARFs. Build on!!

270

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

As stated many times, ARFs bring the "I gotta have it now" and the "I don't have time to build" guys into the hobby. 90% of them won't last long. Some do though and turn out to be great flyers. Some even build eventually. Its all part of the hobby. I have been stockpiling kits for about 10 years. Its a good investment. You won't lose money on them. Buy the ones you are interested in, hold on to them, and then build one now and then, or sell them later for something you want more. I keep a lot of Goldberg Shoestrings. I buy just about every one I see. Never lost money on one and have sold at least ten over the years at substantial profit. It pays for other planes. There are a lot of hard to find kits like that. You just have to know what to pay for them and be able to store them for a while. That in itself is a fun part of the hobby.

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I will say this about ARFs. They can be great to train with... If you crash it who really cares, another $100 and one night and you're ready to go again. But beyond that I'm just not into them. I test flew a Kaos .40 ARF for a new guy today, it flew great but all the trim tape came off of it....

270

RE: Kit Builders Unite!
 

I find it sad that guys at the field laugh at your efforts to scratch build your own designs. That is a sad thing to hear. Really sad.

My trainer is a ARF. Still have it. I was so surprised by offers to buddy box me to learn to fly that I didn't think I would have time to build. My buddy who trained me offered to sell me his Aerostar 60 that he built and learned on. So, I sunk all of my remaining money into a nice transmitter. The morning I was to pay him for the Aerostar it crashed due to his transmitter failing. There went my trainer! Another guy gave me an offer on his ARF trainer, flight box & gear, and a radio that I didn't really want. That is how I started out flying rc. I sold the radio for half of the whole setup price. I don't have many feelings for the trainer other than seeing all of the repairs either my buddy or I made as I punished it along. Ha ha, there are a lot of repairs too! I do remember learning to fly in strong winds with it when I should have not flown it.

The planes that I've built are another story.