When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I have been building RC Aircraft from kits since 1995, there have been some good and bad days along the way, mainly they were good.

Sometimes I looked at the plans and wondered what they were talking about – a few steps later it all came together and it was a beautiful thing.

BUT! Then there were the times when something just didn’t look right and it didn’t come together at all. Modifications were hastily concocted, wings were rebuilt, time and money were wasted. [&o)

I have always thought that the people that create these AC actually knew what they were talking about – on occasion this idea has been proven wrong. [X(]

So; When Do You Stop Believing the instructions and go out on your own?

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

Not that I ever had many such mishaps with kits, but I always try to read the instructions completely at least once before I begin to build. Then when I build, I always keep reading a couple steps in advance, sometimes it answers questions before they come to mind. In any cases it helps understanding where I'm going.

I'd say that if that + reading the plan would not answer my questions, I would, in line with the next steps in the build, begin to modify. But only just enough to be able to continue with the manual.

Ciao!

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I stop believing when the changes that I make improve the way the model flies and I strong believe them when in an opposite side, the changes that I made did not improve or decrease the performance of the model. Anyway I still learn from following a different route of the instructions and it’s very usual to me to do so.
Thanks.

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

You mean they include instructions with kits. WOW...guess I need to empty the whole box......

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

Don't take it that hard.There is always crappy areas of building a plane.I've been building planes for over 20 years and you pick up tricks that you aply to other projects.A lot of times I only use the directions as reference,I pretty much build a plane as I feel comfortable with.I have a 1/3 Space walker i'm building and the wing is in 3 pcs.Screw that,I put 2 removable joiners in the center looks nicer and easier to assemble.I usually build 3 planes a year.
Did you ever notice you never see a bad review.
Keep 'em flyin-Jeffo

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

LMAO!:D

I am with you, I like scratchbuilding and I didn't realize it is possible to build it just like the kit or plans show... I have to fight the urge to modify everything I see along the way. I have a Mojo 40 on the table right now and I may (just maybe...) build it exactly as per the plans, since this is my first profile, first 3D, etc and I don't have enough experience to hack and slash at these yet.

Great comment, waross.


Mark

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I find that nearly every time I consider changing something but don't because "the designer knew what he was doing" I regret it.

Dave

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

To me it depends on the kit. For example if its a sig or gp kit thats out there by the 1000s you can be pretty sure the manual is accurate. So I would be more prone to stick with it even though I dont understand. On the other hand if its a small run kit you know its more prone to errors. I am currently building a kit that is taking me lots of extra time bc I have to double check lots of stuff before glueing.

Also, if the manual has been translated to english I tend to trust it less. An example of that is the CA models kits, they have pretty poor english translations. I speak spanish and have compared the english and spanish manuals and sometimes there are very translation errors that are significant. The GWS manuals would be another example of this. I´ve never built one of the nitromodels ARF´s but I hear their mauals are very poor too.

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

Directions are for reference only in my book, you need to understand your project completely before building and design the changes required before you start building. Talk to some people who have built the kit before so you can catch the problems ahead of time. Modifying a plane is half the fun.

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I see Jeffo doesn't read RC Report. :eek:

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I don't think I've built a plane yet that wasn't modified in some fashion.

I read the instructions once or twice before starting construction. I also read ahead a few steps while building.

I've built so many that I rarely follow the instruction book to the letter. I sand a bit here--replace some wood over there--install a hardpoint over here and replace blocks with formers and sticks on this or that piece. I'll sheet the turtledeck on this plane and unstall stringers on that one.

I can't just pull it out of the box and build it according to the plan or instructions. Thats boring. I only have a 73" truck bed, so you'll see me with a lot of 2-piece wings that weren't originally designed that way. It's no big deal to put a tube in a wing and add a couple nylon bolts to a wing for attachment. I've moved the stab up and down or forward and backwards on some aerobatic planes to see what effect it had.

I have a Midwest 80" Cap 232 NIB that I plan to build some day. I've already built the 73" Midwest Giles and the 80" Midwest Extra 300S, so I know all about those plywood fuselages and how heavy they can be. On the Cap, I plan to only use the sides of the fuse to keep my stabs and wing saddle lined up. The top and bottom of the fuse and all the ply formers behind the wing saddle are going to be made from balsa sticks and formers. That will lighten the kit significantly. Especially in the tail section where Caps are notorious for being tail heavy. It's going to be a bit of work, and I'll have to lay it out on a set of paper and basically re-draw the fuse before I start on construction. But, the benefit of loosing all that weight is going to make the plane fly a lot better.

Modifying kits is the whole reason why I like to build. It's fun to personalize the kits to make them my own creation. It's fun to play with the stab location or the wing tube on a plane to make it fly different. Some planes will build out tail heavy--they just do. I've had kits before and KNEW it was a tailheavy design before I started building. I took the wing tube and moved it back 1.5" on the fuse to put a bit more moment out in front of the CG. Moved the horizontal stab forward 1" to get a bigger rudder control surface in between the elevators. [8D]

I just can't help myself. :)

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I have been building kits for over 30 years now, I don’t think I have ever built a kit to the letter, I read thru the instructions and build in the order I want to. some things have an order and I have yet to build a kit that went together like the instructions say, if they could produce balsa, light ply, and such with the same consistency each time then you could go by the book. there is always something different it might be small differences but always something. I almost always beef up areas like landing gear,firewalls,and wing mounting blocks on the wing bolt type mounts. when you build a kit you have a lot of options you can add to or even take away from.

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I don't worry about changing things if I feel it makes sense. I don't consider that the designer necessarily knows more then I do, as many times this might not be so. We are talking about a hobby and I think it unlikely that many designers have any type of degree behind his name for designing model aircraft. So, they came up through the hobby and may have less experience then I, or may lack communications skills and that makes for trouble with the instructions. To be able to communicate throught the written word, how to do something, is a skill unto it's own. Generally between the plans, instructions and my own abilities, I can come up with a workable solution. Sometimes it's as good as or even better then what the designer intended.

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

You stop believing in the instructions when you've figured out a better way to do the job.

For some reason, I have this unfounded fear of the little 'pin' on the LE of most wings that plugs into a forward former (with bolts on the back which hold the wing to the fuse), I'd swear I'm going to shear that off one day. I have yet to see one fail, but I now like to build a second wing block near the forward most spar and reinforce the center section with a couple chunks of basswood, and then use a second set of bolts to hold the wing to the fuse. This does seem to give a slightly crisper plane in high bumpy winds, as well as a little reassurance that 'everything will be fine' when trying the first full throttle outside loop. The pin becomes just an alignment component.

I always thought the idea of working with the kit and instructions is to teach you the various ways of constructing models. Take as much as possible from each kit (adrian page; I love your fuselage stringer construction, I added that to my slowpoke to make it look more round), and then use those tricks or techniques on subsequent kits.

Instructions are for when plans seem unclear, when plans and instructions seem unclear, invent a new solution that does the job twice as well as the unclear components.

Note: Do read ahead a few steps if the kits has instructions, it often helps you avoid those 'cannot fit that now...what to move...' problems.

eniac

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I'm building an ARF with Chineses instructions so I stopped beleiving when I opened the box. The rudder and elevator mount are too high and will allow the servos to hit the wing. The rudder pull-pull cables will bisect the wing bolt mounting blocks. I have made another rudder servo mount. I decided to wait to build the elevator servo until I know where it is balancing at.
It seems like the radio placement always needs to differ from the instructions for me, I hate to add weight to balance.
MikeB

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

There's always something that gets lost in translation........ If you build it in Chinese, it goes together perfectly:D


I think I'm in the wrong thread; when I saw the title, I thought it had something to do with Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

After a while you get the 'flow' of where things go and what you have to do NOW to get those things 'there' later....example is antenna tube, radio installation; switches, etc. I like to decide as much as I can before I even start construction then write it in the manual. Blind nuts can be installed long before the part gets glued on, switch backing in plywood is done before the fuse is completed....etc.

It takes time....and trial and error :)

RE: When Do You Stop Believing?
 

I stopped using the instructions years ago, when I noticed several things that were inconsistent in building models. As ModeOne says, I'm probably as smart as the guy was who designed the thing in the first place. For example, when was the last time that you saw a full scale plane with right thrust, and down thrust built in? There is none. The guys that design models do that so you won't have to learn to fly it (that is what the rudder and elevator is for. Have you ever seen a full scale plane with the Horizontal Stabilizer fastened to the fuselage? Me either; They pivot, and are adjustable for trim. All the things that the full scale has, you can do as well. Instructions? Fine for the low time builder, and even fine for the veteran to use as a reference, but it ain't the last word in model building.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1