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Note on MAAC Insurance

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Note on MAAC Insurance

Old 05-20-2005, 09:01 AM
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kenair
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Default Note on MAAC Insurance

FYI - from MAAC SW Zone director at [link=http://www.swzone-maac.com/]MAAC SW Zone [/link]
Southwest Zone Members
May 18,2005



I do not take lightly making this report to you. I have given a lot of consideration as to what action to take, and I’ve sought counsel from members in the zone whose opinions I greatly respect. In the end I have realized that, as a Director of MAAC, it is my responsibility to inform my zone members when there is a situation that may place them at risk, or otherwise have a direct negative impact on them.

On May 11, 2005 I was informed by Chuck Smith that, due to wording in our insurance policy, MAAC members are only covered under the insurance policy for their activities “at events sanctioned by the association”. This deficiency of coverage has existed for the last 4 ½ months, and applies to most of our activities (sport flying).

This information was forwarded to the President of MAAC. What follows is an excerpt from our insurance chair, Richard Barlow, to the board on May 15.
“Chuck did find problems with the policies, especially one clause that could be interpreted as restricting our coverage to sanctioned events. I would like to go on record as thanking him for his diligence and giving full credit to him for his efforts.”

This error in our policy is being taken seriously, and Richard further reported:
“Carl has issued a sanction for all modelling activity in the interim, and Paul Baldwin [MAAC’s insuarance agent] has promised to get the relevant wording changed and the other discrepancies investigated”

As you can see, there is a problem with the wording of the policy. President Carl Layden has attempted a stopgap measure by declaring all member activities to be “sanctioned”. However, although well intentioned, I have serious concerns on whether or not this is a valid action that will extend blanket coverage to non-sanctioned events (sport flying).

Also, since we cannot provide sanctions for activities outside of Canada, MAAC members do not have insurance outside of Canada. This will especially effect anyone traveling to the US or abroad.

Other wording in the Policy indicates that coverage for volunteer activities and demonstration flights with buddy boxes may have reduced coverage, or may not be covered at all.
In closing my belief is that, until a written endorsement is received from the insurance carrier, MAAC members are not covered by insurance for their sport flying and related activities.

Until this matter is completely resolved, please consider this information when and if you decide to fly.


Gerry Shaw

Southwest Zone Director.

Posted 19 May 2005.
H. Barr.
Old 05-20-2005, 01:55 PM
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Sharpy01
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

looks like the usual suspects trying to play for power by discredation........................... again

Apparently the new Executive is not cow-towing to them again so it's time to go on the offensive and try and cause grief. At least one of their former comrades is apparently seeing through their smoke.

In that discussion, Morrison's post likely makes the most sense so I'll add that one here as well.


Quote:Usetobechair wrote:
PLEASE BE CAREFULL UNTIL WRITTEN VARIFICATION IS RECEIVED.


For the sake of the future of the association, please be careful at all times when you are flying models, PARTICULARLY if your activities ARE covered by our insurance policy.

[removed after clarificatin by Mr. Smith]

The ease with which the policy is being re-written suggests that the intent was to cover all activities and that, as the broker SAYS, coverage was in force.

Remember that sanctioning can be as simple as being told it is OK. By its very nature the association sanctions events such as ad-hoc (Add Hawks) flying sessions If they are held at a registered field and adhering to the safety code. A sanction does not HAVE To be a piece of paper approved by the association.


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and C-ing Magazine www.C-ingMagazine.ca

Old 05-20-2005, 03:06 PM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

"The ease with which the policy is being re-written suggests that the intent was to cover all activities and that, as the broker SAYS, coverage was in force."

I would hate to fight this one out in court with an insurance company. "Intent" and "says" sounds like some of those legal terms that could be tough to prove and result in no payout on a claim.

The good thing is that it was noticed and is being corrected.
Old 05-23-2005, 05:41 PM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

From the MAAC website;

The whole issue likely started by the disgruntled when the board didn't jump when they asked them to.

There are some Massively important people within MAAC.................... if you can't identify them,

just wait..................

...........they will tell you how important they are. :wink:

Tough to get things done when you're putting out fires.

Good luck Carl. :?

Important Message
May 23, 2005

To All MAAC Members,

It has come to our attention that there are letters circulating that indicate a deficiency in our insurance coverage. The letters and notices on discussion forums do not (did not) have board approval and do not represent the opinions of our insurance broker, insurance company or insurance chairman.

There was recently a wording correction made to our policy. The wording change was the result of our insurer rewording our policy for grammatical reasons. There was no intent to limit or change our coverage.

Upon further discussion with our insurance broker he issued the following statement, "..at no time was there any lapse of coverage under your [MAAC's] Liability Policy.".

In short, the insurance coverage you receive as a MAAC member is the same this year as it was last year. If you have further questions about this please contact your zone director, our insurance Chairman, Richard Barlow, or any member of the MAAC executive. Fly Safe and have Fun.



Carl Layden
President
Model Aeronautics Association of Canada

Richard Barlow
VP & Insurance Chairman
Model Aeronautics Association of Canada
Old 05-23-2005, 11:25 PM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

who would have thunk toy airplanes could be such ugly politics?

more entertainment for you on this issue;

http://www.rccanada.ca/bb/viewtopic.php?t=15429

and

http://mbz.portage.net/cgi-bin/yabb/...num=1116598070

[:'(]

enjoy
Old 05-25-2005, 08:47 AM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

Sorry folks, indulge me as I am not able to respond on the site where I keep taking personal shots when I'm not even involved. If you are not interested in the politics, simply ignore, but here at least the folks who control "RCCanda can't censor people they don't like for issues of toy airplane politics:

If nothing else, you may find it entertaining, kind of like watching a train wreck.

Dave Plank wrote:

and they don't deserve to be castigated or villified for asking legitimate questions.
Dave no one minds the questions it’s the tactics and wording used to disseminate the information in question, in fact the way it was done is reminiscent of the posts of Marc Sharpe and Ken Kalniuk during an earlier time on this forum. That the same people who are now posting this information fought tooth and nail against these type of tactics at a previous time and are now willing to use the same does indeed make me question their motives.

That the insurance company doesn’t dance to your tune and provide instant gratification and you are unwilling to accept anything but a hard copy of the re-written insurance policy then you have every right to advise your members to cease any and all club activities until you get it in writing.

Dennis Pratt
Hey Dennis!?

I appreciate..... and am actually, kinda impressed with your stand for what is right and the obvious realization you have had with some of your past allies.

However, the attempt to spin me and Ken into the Shaw/Smith web is just a we bit off base.

Take a step back Dennis and analyze. A certain core group of members disliked and attacked little o'l me with reckless abandon when it was clear I was not going to "go with their program" (ie: Shaw for Prez/HQ to Tillsonburg & of course; World Scale 02) That fact remained a constant throughout my tenure with the MAAC board.

I remained fiercely loyal to those I supported and still remain good friends with them. Regardless of what you thought of my method of providing information to the membership or what my "toy airplane" beliefs were, I maintained my loyalty to what I believed and those I supported. My integrity remained intact.

......"they" cannot say the same.

Granted, my strong opinion and method ruffled some feathers, (and still does) ................. but it must be most interesting for you, and some others, to note that those same foes I did battle with are continuing to make war without my presence and are now causing similar problems with those whom they so adamently supported not so very long ago?

That said, you once made a big fuss to the board for being dragged into one of my running battles with one of the very players who's integrity, you also now question? I provided you with a public apology at that time.

I don't demand similar, but would appreciate it if you not mention my name in the same breath as those I still have no interest in sharing a beer with.

Thanks

Marc Sharpe
Old 05-25-2005, 08:48 AM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

[quote author=Garnet_Burke link=board=general-Nat;num=1116598070;start=0#11 date=05/23/05 at 23:45:56]Are these two guys still going to TRY to run the NATS this year?

Just curious ................ l[/quote]

well, this may give you an idea how it's going;

Cliff please relay your thoughts on this to Chuck Smith as Chairman of the Scale Committee as I have had no communications from him in regard to the status of the upcoming Nats. I am on the Scale Committee and as a member have been trying to promote a first time Scale Event at a new club for the introductory category Open or Fun Scale. This was to drum up interest and support for the new introductory class at the Nats. He refuses to answer any inquiries about support for this new scale event. He has made it plain that he feels it more important to attend a local area fun fly than attend or support this new event.

Dennis Pratt
dennis

I do not have any specific requests from you to include any items of promotion in the maac mag. I did not receive any such promotional letters from you to put in my column. Did you expect me to write something about an event you are controlling and have not included me in any of the planning. If you had of sent something, a write up etc, I would have put it in as I would any members request.

Chuck smith
Scale chair

I sent the information to you twice via email. I included the links to the GSM site:
http://www.greatersudburymodelers.com/index.php

Links to the rules and the event posted on my site:
http://www.greatersudburymodelers.com/index.php
http://home.cogeco.ca/~denpratt/Noose3.html

I explained that the event was being held by the Greater Sudbury Modelers and it was to be a Scale Event using the Open Scale rules as a trial prior to the NATS and would take place on the long weekend at the beginning of July. In my email I also stated it would be a first time event for this club and it was imperative that it be supported to show interest in a growth of scale contests. You did not answer either of the requests. Truth of the mater Chuck is since I have started to disagree with you none of my emails have been answered and I have recieved no updates from the Scale Chairman on the upcoming NATS.

Dennis Pratt
The bold area represents a revelation by Dennis. Welcome to the club Dennis.

.........next up for Dennis will be the systematic attack on his character ...... to coin a well worn phrase by someone close to this issues........kind of a "slap in the face" , eh Dennis. Good luck man. Thanks for sharing in the role of the whipping boy. :-/
Old 05-25-2005, 08:49 AM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

Mr GUNN has hit on a very important point. Nice to see folks seeing through the smoke and mirrors;

When all is said and done,the issue is really a non issue as it was an error and no coverage was lost.
However,there is a much bigger issue here.That being that a DIRECTOR chose upon discovery of the error in the policy,not to seek advice form his fellow directors,the insurance chairman or MAAC legal,he seeks advice from members he trusts.That looks to me like an individual who cannot follow protocall,chain of command and has no respect for his fellow directors of the organization.
Instead,he chooses to yell the shy is falling routine. Could it be that this zone director has been one for to long and needs a break?
Stop pannicing guys and go flying.
Ian Gunn
MAAC 25307
http://www.rccanada.ca/bb/viewtopic....r=asc&start=30

.......man in defensive mode now;

Ian

With all do respect, the zone director had the information verified by the insurance bureau of Canada. It was prudent to warn the membership and I can tell you, he thought long and hard about doing so.

A MAAC Sanctioned event is a very specific thing. It is not day to day flying. The policy coverage was and for all I know still remains, for that specific event. until written confirmation is received I remain skeptical.

the zone director, with 25 years of experience, recognized the problem and warned the membership. It is very easy to state their was no lapse in coverage since no claim was attempted.


This insurance coverage, so I am told, is one of the most important reason members join this organization. Therefore lets make sure we are covered to the full extent we were last year.
It is not a crime to be sure.

Chuck
.....back on point, good man, that Mr Gunn;

Chuck, you missed the point.He showed great disrespect to the other directors,the insurance chairman,the president and executive of MAAC and to us buy not following protocall and allowing the system to work.There by creating much undo stress and contraversy with 10 cent opions being offered by those not in the industry.With 25 years experience,he is showing poor judgement and an attitude that is detremental to a good working board of directors and executive.
I do not disagree that the matter was serious but perpously panicing people needlesly rather than trying to act like a solo artist is not the way to make this organization work well and grow.No wounder no one wants to run for zone directrs spots anymore.
Ian Gunn
MAAC 25307
Old 05-25-2005, 11:15 AM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

....followed by some classic fear-mongering in attempt to come to the defence of buddies and deflect attention from basic problems of how/why this became an issue; (a page out of our current Canadian federal government's play-book)

I have never in my life seen anything like you people. You beat up on a man because he after alot of thought he decides he has to inform the MAAC members in his zone that there is a problem with one of the basic functions of MAAC. That is to provide use with insurance. THANK YOU GERRY for keeping me informed because I suspect I would have never know how close I was to losing everything I own had you not told me.
I know Gerry very well and I really doubt that he did this with out first talking to someone on the insurance committee and/or the executive.
Its all well and good to say that we meant the coverage to be there and don't worry because we just declared all flying in Canada to be a sanctioned event. I think we should all be very worried about this insurance thing until we see the paper from the insurer not what some broker says. I do a considerable amount of flying in the USA and apparently I have not been covered while over there, boy does that scare the bejabbers out of me. I have visions of my savings being sucked into a dark legal pit. Thankfully it did not happen.
Please do not lecture me or anyone else on the form on what they wish to discuss, again if you do not like this topic then stay out of it.


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Cliff Russell
MAAC 3971L
Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; and responsibility for all your actions.
Then, someone with some current, actual professional opinion on the whole insurance issue;(thank you mr Kovats)

I promised I wouldn't say anymore, but I really have to set some insurance facts out for you guys, being I am an insurance broker. In fact if your insurance broker tells you that you are covered you are. Insurance brokers are given the power to bind coverage. Here's a little known fact amoung the public: Insurance brokers carry errors and omissions insurance, usually a minimum of $1,000,000 by law, up to $10,000,000, to protect themselves about "errors" they may make, or "omissions" that are inadvertantley missed or left out of coverage. In fact most E&O insurance that Brokers carry is included to cover intentional fraud or misrepresentation by the broker. This E&O covers the insurance carrier in the event of mistake or misrepresentation, but in fact covers the person, business, or group to which that mistake, ommission, or fraud was committed.

This is done to protect the public from dangerous misinformation that floats around newspapers, televison, flyers, coffee shops and web threads.

In fact, if you have been told you are covered by a licensed professional, you are.

Can we let people do their jobs and just get on with some flying. I saw somw red at sunset tonight, tomorrow is going to be a great day - be grateful if you wake up, some won't.

Jason please wrap this up it's going no where and I think that people have demonstrated that they have opinions, but too much misinformation about the facts are floating around. It's also getting pretty personal.


_________________
John Kovats

aka Johnny Versatile
MAAC 65460

Hespeler Model Aviators Inc.
Brant Flyers
Cambridge Float Flyers
.......kind of like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Entertaining if nothing else.

cheers
Old 08-03-2005, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

Just received my latest MAAC Mag today and a quick read of the Prez's comments and Director Shaw's column provides some insight into this topic.

President Layden states emphatically that the insurance never left anyone "uncovered" at any point and backs up his statement directly from the agent and the insurance company itself. Doesn't get clearer than that.

Perhaps more telling is Director Shaw's column where he begins with his view related to the controversy and an attempt to justify what he did. He further provides information that he was formally reprimanded, supported by 10 of the remaining 12 directors. My experience tells me something as it was rare to get that large a majority of the directors to agree on any controversial issue during my tenure. (The most I ever had trying to jump on my head at any one time was 5!)

It's curious that he report in the mag claims he discovered the "perceived" problem in his reading, but the letter he posted that set this off indicates the "percieved" problem was discovered by "Chuck Smith"? Whatever.....

..he probably should have just taken his lumps and let the thing die in my humble opinion.
Old 08-03-2005, 04:42 PM
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Default RE: Note on MAAC Insurance

Nope - it's the calling of the few in the SW zone to cause as much problems for MAAC as they can, from Scale 2002, insurance coverage, and soon to be the Nats.

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