Jim_McIntyre

contribute

v 1: bestow a quality on; "Her presence lends a certain cachet to the company"; "The music added a lot to the play"; "She brings a special atmosphere to our meetings"; "This adds a light note to the program" [syn: lend, impart, bestow, add, bring] 2: contribute to some cause; "I gave at the office" [syn: give, chip in, kick in] 3: be conducive to; "The use of computers in the classroom lead to better writing" [syn: lead, conduce] 4: provide; "The city has to put up half the required amount" [syn: put up]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

My use of the word here should be taken in context of positive contributions, as in promoting the hobby and facilitating contests, communications etc..

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

fair to say, it's abstract/conceptual, open to interrpretation based on personal vision or interests?

Certainly, all aspects need to be considered because someone who organizes multiple contests/events can be a total knucklehead, leaving behind a "negative" impact despite the hard work and effort of many well-intentioned volunteers. The same stuff is on my list, but it has to be the whole package, not just the effort.

The true contributors are those who do so without seeking recognition or demanding respect because of "this", "this" & "that"... They do so for the love of the hobby and do so anonomously without expecting anything in return. It drove me nuts, when I would ask someone involved in the organization a valid question and instead of an answer, received a big long resume of their awards and accomplishments and lectures on how important they were and much they have "contributed" to the organization and how even daring to question anything they did on behalf of me, the membership and the elected board was a "slap in the face". It's classic deflection techniques used to duck sensitive questions and only served to heigten my interest in the topic and lowered the respondant a peg or two on my list. ......

britbrat

You are waaaayyy off base here. How can you possibly know what individuals contribute to the hobby. It seems that your definition of contribution is confined to contributing directly to MAAC itself, & to praising the volunteers, and to avoid criticizing the organization at large.

I personally know dozens of modellers who contribute greatly to the hobby (I modestly include myself with them). We work hard within our own clubs to encourage new modellers, spending hundreds of hr/per year teaching flying & assisting new members with model construction techniques. We spend untold hrs at club meetings working out how to stay solvent & to improve the available facilities. We give away models, hardware & time, free, to individuals who would otherwise not be able to enjoy this sport.

I strongly suspect that are literally thousands like us. I feel really good about my own contributions to this hobby & I think that most of the individuals that you consider "detractors" are similar to me. MAAC is NOT modelling in Canada --- we are --- and we don't wave any personal "look at me flags" -- we just do it and get pleasure from it. If we are not happy with certain activities within MAAC, we are absolutely entitled to say so --- despite your personal view of the value of what we "contribute".

The attitude that you display here is upsetting.

Jim_McIntyre

britbrat ... or whatever your real name is ... you are reading way too much into my responses.

I'm not criticising your, or anyone elses contributions. I'm criticising the criticism of others who do contribute to MAAC.

You may not agree with these people, but like it or not, I see their contributions at that level, and not yours.... unless you want me to include negative contributions?

Jim_McIntyre

Sounds like you have issues/personality conflicts with certain individuals.... does this surprise you?
Often you get a response based on the way a question is asked, or other communications (by you, about them) they have been made privy to...

When you ask for volunteers, you get all sorts, you have to take the good with the bad, especially if you need the bodies to get things done. You have to weigh the results against the inconvenience or consider other options...

Critcising volunteers for their personality, especially publicly, simply means you will have fewer volunteers the next time around until eventually, few are willing to risk the criticism to come forward....[>:]

britbrat

Jim, criticism is not a negative contribution, it is a positive contribution. It is a vital ingredient in keeping an organization on track -- and you know it. Companies that are operated by teams of "like-minded" individuals who do not seek critical review, very quickly drift off track -- ask GM how it is doing these days.

Jim_McIntyre

I don't know how organizations you may have worked for deal with perform employee/volunteer reviews but, I'm pretty certain they didn't include public criticism on Internet forums....

This is the criticism I am here to protest.

britbrat

I think that you are missing an essential point -- the individual volunteers are not being criticised (except in a few cases) -- the organization as a whole, and its policies and actions in various areas, are being criticized.

These modelling forums are entirely valid for discussing issues -- MAAC should recognize this and start looking, listening & enquiring into the various issues.

I have some specific beefs with MAAC operations, but my biggest complaint is that MAAC will not recognize and accept that all is not well with its members. The very fact that these discussions are taking place should have alarm bells ringing. Not recognizing forum discussions as valid is an ostrich response -- "we dont recognize that communication channel, so we will do nothing -- other than discourage that form of communication". The attitude that "they are trouble makers", -- or, "we've heard this stuff before", --or " those guys must be smoking some kind of dope" (I actually heard that one), or even worse, "they can't get along without us, but we can get along without them" (I've heard that one too) just drives folks wild -- and drives them to discuss this stuff among themselves on the internet.

Regardless of whether or not current MAAC officials question the value of the various criticisms, some members (who knows how many?) think that the problems are real. Even if the number of complainants is low, there is clearly a real problem. The fix may be as simple as educating the unwashed in the error of their parochial thinking, or it may be correcting something fundamentally wrong in the workings of various bits of MAAC.

Ignoring the complaints, or trying to suppress them, is just plain dumb.

Jim_McIntyre

Those are the cases I am protesting.

As for the rest of your post, MAAC has a policy for communications, and specifically Internet communications. What I'm 'hearing' from you is that you disagree with it....

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

LOL.... [sm=pirate.gif] I think he's a pirate!

Jim_McIntyre

If the number of complaints are low, I doubt there really is a problem. The signal to noise ratio of complaints for an organization this size is surprisingly low.... there will always be complainers, you must have experienced this in you own club situation. You know, the ones who complain about the grass but don't volunteer to cut, complain that club wasn't represented at the annual springfest but was not heard from when the call for volunteers went out, complain about the quality of instruction but fail to show on training days ....etc. etc.

britbrat

I disagree with you here --- while I do agree that there are professional complainers, I think that most members don't complain openly. Most individuals avoid confrontation in life, but they sure don't avoid being personally upset with various irritants. Any significant number of complaints, or re-curring complaints about specific issues is an indicator of larger numbers (I suspect much larger numbers) of disaffected members.


Most folks never complain about service from an organization -- they just go somewhere else. MAAC's attitude so far has been "let them go, they need us, but we don't need them". An arrogant & fundamentally flawed approach to problem solving.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

True in the case where the complaints are coming from a broad range of people from various areas/experiences/exposure......far from the truth when the recurring complaints stem from a few individuals in an organization.

Other than personal opinion what do you have to back this up? I have in my 15 years of modelling not experienced this attitude you speak of from MAAC.

I have been in MAAC for 15 years and belonged to somewhere around 7 clubs in two different provinces.....in all that time I dont think I can really remember once at clubs meetings or anywhere else someone really complaining/upset about MAAC and what it does or doesn't do.

Internet forums are an easy place to make things seem worse than they are, as its usually a select few who are disgruntled and make the noise.....anyone who reads can easily be led down the path that this is the norm or the majority belief which in most cases it is not. Just look at the bad rap some companies have received due to a vocal few over a few product failures.....

Hurri

I wonder what any american readers think of all this back & forth *****ing ? They must think we are a pretty imature lot , Why if somebody is as disatisfied with MAAC as it appears , there are solutions . Either quit , get another organisation started . Get involved with the running of MAAC , so that you can voice all your complaints & ideas . This is childish what is going on , on this web .

britbrat

Our American friends are busy with their own in-fighting -- read the AMA forum.

Why were a substantial group of Quebecers sufficiently unhappy with MAAC that they tried to form their own RC organization?

What was MAAC's attitude in that case? --- they need us, but we don't need them.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Could not have been that big of a movement if it didnt succeed....I suspect it was like the one out west where about a handful of people sent out emails and basically got zero response. Much like both the SFA and UMA in the US.

These organizations would thrive if there were serious problems with MAAC and the majority wanted out....but by their failure they have only proven this is not the case.

As to MAAC's attitude, what do you think they are going to do.....a group is forming another organization to directly compete with MAAC....do you really expect MAAC to lend any assistance whatsoever? If you set up a business right next to mine that is directly in competition with me I will a) not give you the time of day, b) certainly will not give assistance when you are going to take my customers......

You need to come up with a better example of MAAC's attitude than that.

If you are against giving your money to MAAC, why not get an AMA membership....you are still covered at all events and fields here :-)

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Quebec numbers are actually quite low when you consider the population available. Probably a reason for that.

As far as AMA valid in Canada, if you don't have a permanent address there? I think you know the answer to that when push came to shove and an accident is investigated. Not to mention, the reciprocal agreement is actually one-way. Apparently, MAAC's insurance covers our members in the US and it's actually our insurance that covers the AMA members when they are flying here. Not really reciprocal.

.....I suspect the US readers care about our discussion about as much as George Bush worries about Paul Martin.

britbrat

The Quebecers failed because they weren't allowed to fly at neighbouring MAAC airfields in Ontario & Atlantic Canada.

A more constructive MAAC attitude would have been --- "What is the problem that is driving members away & what can we do to fix it?"

In my own case -- I don't object to being a MAAC member (you really aren't reading my posts). I want some improvements to MAAC --- and don't give me that old crap about volunteering -- I have already explored that avenue & I really don't want to go there at this time. I do plenty for modelling through my own club, & by extension, what I do also helps MAAC.

Jim_McIntyre

If I recall correctly, the issue was French translation, and MAAC has addressed that problem..... an expensive fix for a special interest group I might add but, only to draw attention to the fact that there are many special interest groups....

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

LOL..................and you label me a pot-stirrerm, Jim? [&:]

Jason Holdaway

yes they do. Shut up and don't ask questions.

I'm fortunate enough to belong to a company that seeks criticism. Being known for my outspoken manner, I am often invited to high level meetings to discuss new or potentially contraversial issues in the orginization. I'm actually called a company man there though because they realize I speak my mind because I care about the big picture within the company and will not kiss anyones *****. In MAAK though, I'm considered one of the black sheep (especially coming from the SW zone) I see too many people in MAAK that are simply yes men to be in the "in" crowd. I believe many people don't speak out because they're too scared to go through the crap we do. At least we have morals. We may not always be right, but at least we care enough to stand up.

Sharpy01

My Feedback: (12)

Welcome back into the thick of things Jason. It's been a while.

Always refreshing to see that there is, in fact, some varried opinion down your way. Naturally, I've known for quite some time that everyone doesn't have the same mantra.

cheers, man [8D]

Jim_McIntyre

Ok, show me this policy.

I too am a naturally inquisitive, and you can see by my posts, not afraid to discuss the 'delicate' issues. Whenever I've call anyone at MAAC for an answer, I get it. Perhaps the problem lies in the way you ask the question. Rude inference will not get you answers you want, it may get you answers you don't want....

Nice resume.... I'm an Integration Architect for a major bank. Literally my job is get in the face of Solution Architects, ask all the hard questions and uncover flaws/shortcuts in their designs. The one major difference we may have in job descriptions is that I'm required to not only point out the flaws in existing and future designs, I also have to find solutions to them that meet critical time and budget restrictions while justifying the need for change (including cost and delays) to senior management....

Jason Holdaway

Sorry Jim. I guess I stepped out of line. If I had known you were much more important than the rest of us, I wouldn't have said anything

Jim_McIntyre

Apology accepted.[sm=stupid.gif]

Remember, you began the whole sharing of resumes thing....

Man, you guys should try discussing real issues instead of inventing conspiracies and making personal attacks.