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SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Old 06-25-2005, 11:36 AM
  #51  
can773
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: britbrat

---HO scale? Do bad girls fly?
ROFLMAO, that's a riot.

Yep, your right.....to a certain degree.

I'm all for publishing hard fact and figures. I'm all for the board openly publishing contentious votes and how each ZD voted.

My point to most of this is to point out the obvious hypocracy. Please read and note the question marks. Those are designed to make you think and ask your own questions.

As for the insurance question itself?

Do I think it should have been dealt with quickly? Duh.
Do I take the word of the current executive, our current and long-standing broker over 2 ZD's with a recent history of disenfranchisement and some guy's personal opinion who sold insurance a bunch of years ago before 911 changed the game completely?

I'll stick with my assessment that we currently are covered and were when the question was publically raised. I think it needlessly worried members who had no knowledge of the personalities and BS politics involved.

I guess you need to make your own decision. If you don't think we are covered, then I suggest you head down and purchase what you need or consider HO scale.
I guess we need to agree to disagree as to how certain people behaved. I dont know Gerry's motives, but I do know that Harry was honestly trying to do what he though was in the best interests of the members of his zone in publishing what he did regarding the insurance....I certainly agree with what he did and will defend what he did in this case.

What I find somewhat amusing is that Wayne Bransfield moved the motion for a letter of reprimand on both Harry and Gerry....why as past president is Wayne still in the middle of the politics of MAAC? Secondly Wayne is trying to backdoor Harry out of the Precision aerobatics committee chair as he does not want him anywhere involved in MAAC...this is fact as it was myself who was asked to replace him (and I refused).....I know that you were a big proponent of Wayne when he was president but it appears that he succumbs to the same type of backdoor politics that you adamantly opposed (and likely still do). This is fact and cannot be refuted unfortunately....
Old 06-25-2005, 12:15 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: britbrat

---HO scale? Do bad girls fly?
hehe...damn funny.

Chad:

I suppose the amusing part for me is that the majority of the current executive rarely sided with me on any issues while I was there and here I am defending them from a couple of fellas who were instrumental in putting the current executive in place?

Not sure why you brought poor old Wayne into this other than to try and wind me up because he is a friend. I certainly supported Wayne as president and still consider him a good friend. I don't have any knowledge on his recent personal issues with Els, nor do I care. They're big boyz and can sort it out.

My support for Wayne was pretty simply based. In a nutshell, when I was elected to the board, I knew nobody. I was a lone wolf coming in at the height of some high-emotion issues. (no point to getting into those again) Anyway, I quickly learned that two directors were in the running for Prez, Bransfield and Shaw, for the upcoming Moose Jaw AGM. Well, believe it or not, Shaw made a point of driving through on his way to the AGM and stopping the night in my posting at the time, Rainy River. (good luck finding it) Needless to say, it was somewhat out of his way and appeared quite admirable a gesture. I was invited to the hotel where he was staying because my home would not be an easy place for him to find. Now, I don't know about you, but when I go out of my way to see a fellow modeler, the first thing I want to do is talk about planes and find out what their interests are and try and get my nose in their shop to see his stuff?

.........I got politics....... history lessons.......... and some gental lecturing........ no interest in my stuff or the area or the our field?

made me go hmmmmm.

In Moose Jaw, one of my first tasks was to track down Wayne and check him out. Immediately, I was greeted with "plane" talk, photos of his present and past birds, talks of events, crashes, travels etc. The guy was a modeller first, politician second. My choice was made and the adverse and negative reaction of a core group of directors after his election, who simply would not accept or acknowledge him as democratically elected, encased my decision and loyalty to Wayne in stone.

After that, nobody can claim perfection and I never expected perfection because lord only knows that I'm a long way from that pedestal.

[8D]
Old 06-25-2005, 05:59 PM
  #53  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

ORIGINAL: britbrat

---HO scale? Do bad girls fly?


.........I got politics....... history lessons.......... and some gental lecturing........

In a recent post I mentioned late night phone calls and meetings in corners when I was a ZD. Glad to see I wasn't the only one exposed to politics and given "orientation sessions" to try and make me see the light!

The sad fact is that talking about MAAC or participating in MAAC is all about politics NOT airplanes. For that you have to go to a field and fly.

JH
Old 06-25-2005, 09:05 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

lol.......kind of a strange silent hazing.

Yeah, politics is what you get when you enter politics. I knew that going in, but kept gravitated to those who still acted like modellers more than politicians.
Old 06-26-2005, 08:31 AM
  #55  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

AS of this last post..........you're still talking politiKs and not flying...who you Kidding? Don't condemn Gerry Shaw for being only political, when you're doing the same thing.[:'(]
Old 06-26-2005, 09:11 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

I read the posts, I don't see any one condemming Gerrry Shaw, the example of Shaw's lobbying efforts was an example of MAAC politics and we should not confuse flying toy model airplanes with MAAC, both are entirely different things.

We all love flying our toy model airplanes but we can all have different view and opinions of MAAC that can be expressed freely.

Why is there so much politics in MAAC?
Old 06-26-2005, 11:57 AM
  #57  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: ronnieo1

AS of this last post..........you're still talking politiKs and not flying...who you Kidding? Don't condemn Gerry Shaw for being only political, when you're doing the same thing.[:'(]
Not kidding anyone ronnieo, just relaying my personal experience. No need to take it personal.

Yep, I'm one of the few who have some passing political interest, but building and flying comes first and second, a waaaaaay out in front of this bit of entertainment.

cheers [8D]
Old 06-26-2005, 06:21 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Quote...the above "

My support for Wayne was pretty simply based. In a nutshell, when I was elected to the board, I knew nobody. I was a lone wolf coming in at the height of some high-emotion issues. (no point to getting into those again) Anyway, I quickly learned that two directors were in the running for Prez, Bransfield and Shaw, for the upcoming Moose Jaw AGM. Well, believe it or not, Shaw made a point of driving through on his way to the AGM and stopping the night in my posting at the time, Rainy River. (good luck finding it) Needless to say, it was somewhat out of his way and appeared quite admirable a gesture. I was invited to the hotel where he was staying because my home would not be an easy place for him to find. Now, I don't know about you, but when I go out of my way to see a fellow modeler, the first thing I want to do is talk about planes and find out what their interests are and try and get my nose in their shop to see his stuff?

.........I got politics....... history lessons.......... and some gental lecturing........ no interest in my stuff or the area or the our field? "

How can you guys say this not condemning? It certainly is far from praising.
And as for Hotair saying that Shaw isn't mentioned....
IS THERE ANY OTHER SHAW I"M NOT AWARE OF? Amazing!!
Old 06-26-2005, 07:45 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: ronnieo1


How can you guys say this not condemning?
It's the truth. That is exactly what happened. Whether or not the truth meets with your approval is irrelevant.

If you find that condemning, then, in essence, it suggests that you agree with my assessment of the situation.

Old 06-27-2005, 10:32 AM
  #60  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: Sharpy01


If you find that condemning, then, in essence, it suggests that you agree with my assessment of the situation.


Oh trickery --- trickery -- a low blow!
Old 06-27-2005, 11:59 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01
.........I got politics....... history lessons.......... and some gental lecturing........
Hmmnnn..... Meeting with a new zone director on the way to an AGM, I wonder why the discussion centred on these issues instead of the more pertinent topics you suggest?
Old 06-27-2005, 06:09 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ah...the trickery indeed.............
Old 06-28-2005, 10:22 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01
Well, believe it or not, Shaw made a point of driving through on his way to the AGM and stopping the night in my posting at the time, Rainy River. (good luck finding it) Needless to say, it was somewhat out of his way and appeared quite admirable a gesture. I was invited to the hotel where he was staying because my home would not be an easy place for him to find. Now, I don't know about you, but when I go out of my way to see a fellow modeler, the first thing I want to do is talk about planes and find out what their interests are and try and get my nose in their shop to see his stuff?

.........I got politics....... history lessons.......... and some gental lecturing........ no interest in my stuff or the area or the our field?

made me go hmmmmm.
Interesting comment....

When we met at the AGM in Moose Jaw I dont recall getting any "plane" talk from you...after the intial "hello" I beleive the conversation (intiated by you) immediately turned to a discussion of MAAC spending money on FAI.

I guess a little of Gerry rubbed off during his visit to your home town.
Old 06-28-2005, 10:48 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

lol............ yeah, and I was wearing blue jeans, a red shirt with purple stripes and brown socks with reebok runners with one lace slightly loose.

Regardless, if that in fact was the case, I suspect it may have something to do with; "at the AGM" ?

You questioned why I supported Wayne for Prez and I told you the basics. If you are suggesting I'm in the hobby for the politics, chuckle, don't waste your effort. If your suggesting, I'm in "here" for the politics and are trying to "expose" me....... duh. [sm=devious.gif] I don't think that is much of a secret and are likely the last one here to reach that revelation. [sm=cool.gif]
Old 06-28-2005, 11:00 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

lol............ yeah, and I was wearing blue jeans, a red shirt with purple stripes and brown socks with reebok runners with one lace slightly loose.

Regardless, if that in fact was the case, I suspect it may have something to do with; "at the AGM" ?

You questioned why I supported Wayne for Prez and I told you the basics. If you are suggesting I'm in the hobby for the politics, chuckle, don't waste your effort. If your suggesting, I'm in "here" for the politics and are trying to "expose" me....... duh. [sm=devious.gif] I don't think that is much of a secret and are likely the last one here to reach that revelation. [sm=cool.gif]
You directly critisized someone else's behaviour (which you obviously remember.....my experience is in the same timeframe (Moose Jaw AGM) so your memory cannot be that poor) and then proceeded within say the span of a week to exhibit the same behaviour which you just critisized. Whats even more entertaining is your excuse to me was that it was the AGM....as Jim stated....where do you think Gerry was going? Boy some coincidence.

Only suggesting that before being critical of others behaviour to look to your own first.

Old 06-28-2005, 11:14 AM
  #66  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

lol............ yeah, and I was wearing blue jeans, a red shirt with purple stripes and brown socks with reebok runners with one lace slightly loose.

Regardless, if that in fact was the case, I suspect it may have something to do with; "at the AGM" ?

You questioned why I supported Wayne for Prez and I told you the basics. If you are suggesting I'm in the hobby for the politics, chuckle, don't waste your effort. If your suggesting, I'm in "here" for the politics and are trying to "expose" me....... duh. [sm=devious.gif] I don't think that is much of a secret and are likely the last one here to reach that revelation. [sm=cool.gif]

Chad's right...hmmmmmmmmm...on his last 21 posts, only 4 talk about planes here......trickery?Hypocrisy?Chicken-Chokin? What a crock.
Old 06-28-2005, 01:32 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

lol ronnieo......the forum is a "MAAC" forum. It is about politics. (worthy of a Kah-Duh)
..........and you really aren't that creative in your musings, "chicken-chokin" ..... come on. Maybe a new Safety committee rule; "No Chicken-Chokin allowed, All paid in full MAAC members must remain, "Master of their domain".

Again, Chad, you were asking why I supported Wayne and I told you my reasoning. Perhaps Shaw is a friend and thus, I'm sorry if you didn't like my thought process. Still doesn't change it. Sorry Chad, I guess our conversation just wasn't that memorable. Perhaps if you had driven 1200 miles to speak to me, I would have a better chance at remembering specifics. You may be bang on for all I remember. If you're dancing around calling me a hypocrit, I'll save you the effort.

I'm the largest MAAC Hypocrit to cast a shadow on Canada. (at least it makes me an expert in the topic)

............but WAIT!...... I have just remembered the conversation!

Yeah, It started out with FAI discussion, initiated by me and then you wished that all anti-competition types were as open, friendly and forthcoming like me. Then, you grabbed the mike and sang for "he's a jolly good fellow" and told the crowd that you thought I would be the one to finally bring peace to the sport-comp world .......................and Tibet.

......yeah, that's the way I remember it now. The mind is a marvelous things.
Old 06-28-2005, 02:03 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

lol ronnieo......the forum is a "MAAC" forum. It is about politics. (worthy of a Kah-Duh)
..........and you really aren't that creative in your musings, "chicken-chokin" ..... come on. Maybe a new Safety committee rule; "No Chicken-Chokin allowed, All paid in full MAAC members must remain, "Master of their domain".

Again, Chad, you were asking why I supported Wayne and I told you my reasoning. Perhaps Shaw is a friend and thus, I'm sorry if you didn't like my thought process. Still doesn't change it. Sorry Chad, I guess our conversation just wasn't that memorable. Perhaps if you had driven 1200 miles to speak to me, I would have a better chance at remembering specifics. You may be bang on for all I remember. If you're dancing around calling me a hypocrit, I'll save you the effort.

I'm the largest MAAC Hypocrit to cast a shadow on Canada. (at least it makes me an expert in the topic)

............but WAIT!...... I have just remembered the conversation!

Yeah, It started out with FAI discussion, initiated by me and then you wished that all anti-competition types were as open, friendly and forthcoming like me. Then, you grabbed the mike and sang for "he's a jolly good fellow" and told the crowd that you thought I would be the one to finally bring peace to the sport-comp world .......................and Tibet.

......yeah, that's the way I remember it now. The mind is a marvelous things.
You are excellent at handing out critism....and poor at receiving it. A trait among the close minded and narrow sighted.

I have only met Gerry once (at the Moose Jaw AGM).....aside from some BS'ing about pattern thats the extent of our conversations throughout history.

Further to our little entertaining (at least for me) banter....I never actually asked why you supported Wayne, you offered that one up on a fresh plate....why you offered it up...I dont know.
Old 06-28-2005, 04:37 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: can773

I know that you were a big proponent of Wayne when he was president but it appears that he succumbs to the same type of backdoor politics that you adamantly opposed (and likely still do). This is fact and cannot be refuted unfortunately....
if that isn't questioning my support, well call me Ka-Duh.

........bottom line.

Chad, your memory is selective bud.

lets' move along to substance again.
Old 06-28-2005, 05:05 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01


ORIGINAL: can773

I know that you were a big proponent of Wayne when he was president but it appears that he succumbs to the same type of backdoor politics that you adamantly opposed (and likely still do). This is fact and cannot be refuted unfortunately....
if that isn't questioning my support, well call me Ka-Duh.

........bottom line.

Chad, your memory is selective bud.

lets' move along to substance again.
Actually you are not reading correctly.......I have NO doubt (please read again) at all of your support of Wayne.....I never said that at all (again please read the comment).....what the point was which you obviously missed was you were supporting (see I said I dont doubt you support him "I know that you were a big proponent (proponent - one who argues in favour of - advocates) of", that means support....) actions to which you opposed (for example...the backdoor behind the scenes political games...that Wayne is now playing).

Again just pointing out how your words and your actions are not coinciding....please though MarK keep typing I am having a riot of a time poking holes in your credibility [>:][>:]

Chad, your memory is selective bud.
Ahhh yes, without substance once again so take another shot at me LOL....I love it.
Old 06-28-2005, 07:53 PM
  #71  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Ok Chad, in order to get this somewhere near constructive, I conceed the following;

- I am a MAAC political animal and think nothing but politics with a secondary interest in the hobby

- I have no credibility

- "......before being critical of others behaviour to look to" my "own first".

ok, done.

Now, back to the original issue as you may be of some value for your insight;

"Reading the comments of SW Director Shaw, it's easy to see why the latest insurance kurfluffle started when he posted incorrectly that no general sport flying or temp. US flyers had insurance earlier this year."

It appears that much of the current strife within the board relates back to hard feelings from the AGM. One of the big unanswered questions from that event, was

.....Why did Director ELLS depart the AGM without performing his main duty for being there? (ie: vote on behalf of his zone membership as their rep)

Chad, you have established your strong relationship with Mr Ells and have spoken for him in relation to the recent insurance controversy so you obviously have discussed the recent politics at some length with him.

It also stands to reason, that you are aware of Mr. Ells reason for not participating in the AGM? Any chance you would enlighten us?


Old 06-28-2005, 08:08 PM
  #72  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Could this photo been of ellls buggin out of the MAAK agm, I wonder why this question never made it to the can, rccan,

Enlighten us, please!


Old 06-29-2005, 09:15 AM
  #73  
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when he posted incorrectly that no general sport flying or temp. US flyers had insurance earlier this year.
Where is the proof he posted incorrectly? A non-grammatical change was made to the policy......the Insurance Beareu of Canada (or whatever they are called) agreed with the assesment that insurance coverage could possibly be denied.....how is informing the membership of this incorrect....IMO its the most ethical thing to do.

Its parallel from an ethics point of view to me not telling our field guys that something we as the R&D group designed has the potential to cause harm if used....that would land me at least without a license to practise engineering and probably a lot worse if anyone was injured.

It appears that much of the current strife within the board relates back to hard feelings from the AGM.
Not sure how you can assume anyones feelings/opinions/reasoning....for making comments. You dont know why anyone makes the comments they do....in fact your opinion as to why someone does what they do is just as likely to be 180 degrees off as it is to be right on the money.

Chad, you have established your strong relationship with Mr Ells and have spoken for him in relation to the recent insurance controversy so you obviously have discussed the recent politics at some length with him.
I talk to Harry probably twice a week, he is our team manager and a friend.....our typical hour long conversations are usually related to pattern flying, thats our passion and thats what we talk about.

It also stands to reason, that you are aware of Mr. Ells reason for not participating in the AGM? Any chance you would enlighten us?
Yes (more or less anyways), and no.....its not my place to enlighten anyone why Harry did what he did at the AGM.....I suppose if he feels it important to share then he will. Ultimately the only ones concerned should be those in his zone. Quite frankly I dont understand all the details surrounding what occured at the AGM....I can tell you it had nothing to do with the insurance thingy. It was at least a month later when that all started to go down.
Old 06-29-2005, 10:12 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ok, I think I have this figured out?

- you talk to Mr Ells on a regular basis for up to an hour and only talk about Pattern flying

- You have intimate knowledge of the Insurance controversy and have obtained your knowledge through Mr. Ells.

- You have provided insight and defence for Mr. Ells position on the insurance issue based on information provided by him.

- You also have intimate knowledge regarding his departure from the AGM, which we have to assume you obtained during one of your Pattern conversations? ......but you don't feel quite as confident or comfortable with going to bat for him on this one.

ok, ok already. I'm getting dizzy going in circles. I'm moving on.. [&:]

Old 06-29-2005, 11:01 AM
  #75  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

ok, I think I have this figured out?

- you talk to Mr Ells on a regular basis for up to an hour and only talk about Pattern flying

- You have intimate knowledge of the Insurance controversy and have obtained your knowledge through Mr. Ells.

- You have provided insight and defence for Mr. Ells position on the insurance issue based on information provided by him.

- You also have intimate knowledge regarding his departure from the AGM, which we have to assume you obtained during one of your Pattern conversations? ......but you don't feel quite as confident or comfortable with going to bat for him on this one.

ok, ok already. I'm getting dizzy going in circles. I'm moving on.. [&:]

Your point? Or are you just rambling on as usual?

How and where I got information I never said, you assume I got it from a particular source which may or may not be true. You also assume I got the information via phone conversations which may or may not be true, there are many other forms of communication.

Contact your ZD, I am sure he can provide you with as many details and all the same communication that I have read. Then you can come on here and give your own spin.

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