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SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Old 08-02-2005, 02:08 PM
  #101  
kenair
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Kenair and Sharpy did not kicked off the can rc canfor half truths and lies, your statement is a completely false and a lie.

different politcal point of views were presented on the rcan that a small group on the can rccan could not handle thus the webmaster banned the two name handles.

We have been back many times on the can, rcan using different log in names posting rccan politically correct statements that the small group on the rccan have lapped up and agreed with at times.

Rather that present contraryfacts to any statment, you are trying to circumvent the basic principle of freedom of speech by asking for bans on pilotical views, perhaps it is best that one stay on the can - the rccan.
Old 08-02-2005, 02:21 PM
  #102  
Sharpy01
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: Jabba

Well here they are again....

Kenair and Shapy01 BOTh have be KICKED OFF RC Canada for telling lies and half truths... and all sort of other BS!!!

MAYBE it should happen here too!!!
...lol, your entertaining if nothing else.

Ah, Palmer Johnson of Windsor, if you dislike me and any site that allows members to speak freely so much, why are you here?

I haven't graced your RCcan site for a very long time...................come on, admit it......You miss me, don't you?

..............I love you too man.

Darn, I promised myself I wouldn't get all misty......................come here and give me a hug ya big lug.....or is that loogan?

[sm=kiss.gif]
Old 08-08-2005, 04:42 PM
  #103  
Jabba
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Tell the truth Marc you have not been on RC Canada because the kicked you OFF!!!

Same with Kenair....

PLUS I been here a total of maybe 6 times on....

and that is BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!![:'(]

no need to reply Marc I will not be back for another year or two....
Old 08-08-2005, 05:36 PM
  #104  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?



....I love you man. [sm=wink.gif]
Old 09-01-2005, 09:25 AM
  #105  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Jim,

You are correct. All the FAI info is available on their website. However both the FAI Chairman and the ACC Rep put in an annual report to MAAC's Board. They also each put in a MAAC report to the ACC, working with the MAAC President.

Although demonized by some, the Aero Club is nothing more than a bunch of volunteer enthusiasts forming a Canadian aerosport association. Many of the reps on the ACC Board are still, or have been, modellers.

The Aero Club problems arose simply because the federal government withdrew its contribution and between us the money had to be found to replace it. At issue was how to do this fairly. It simply required negotiation between the various associations, and this was not going on. MAAC, as a major stakeholder, had as much responsibility, or more, than anybody else. In a frustrating atmosphere, Rick Reid simply gave up and others had to step in. Quite a few MAAC members were involved, at no little expense in time and money. It didn't cost Rick anything. But don't be too hard on Rick - a situation developed with which he found it difficult to deal. So he pulled MAAC out of the Aero Club instead of getting on with the job.

There was nothing magic about the solution. It just took some negotiation and a bunch of spreadsheets. Eventually a fair formula was produced and agreed, though it has since been refined by Colin Campbell and Richard Barlow. The basic concept is that the more members you have, the less you contribute, per capita. This has been accepted as fair. MAAC has by far the most members so we do contribute a lot, but it is much less a head. When the dust settled, the extra money to meet MAAC's new contributions came out at about 50 cents per member. Other (fullsize) association members paid more. and their individual dues are between three and twenty times as high as those for modellers.

Sharpe suggests that the Aero Club roosted in MAAC's offices for free. Actually they paid $5,000 a year for our services. Even allowing for expenses, that was fair chunk of income. But we gave that up by pulling out. At the time a MAAC member held the position of Aero Club VP. We lost this too.

Ken suggests that Aero Club dues should be based on the number of FAI competitors. I haven't done the maths on this lately, but if we proposed this route, of course all the other associations would do the same. Would we be ahead of the game? I doubt it. Ours is a multi-faceted hobby which means that we compete in a large number of different disciplines (SIGs). So we have teams competing every other year but we always have some teams competing each year. There are about 14 teams. The other aerosport associations only have one team which competes every other year.

I thank that only leaves the issue of the blazers. I'm not sure where this came from, Ken, or why. I have no idea whether Jack H owns a blazer, although I suppose it is likely. I confess I do own one, but I paid for it myself, and I have an RCAF flying unit crest for it. I used to be CO of a Maritime Command flying unit doing test and eveluation with a couple of Argus aircraft, so I think I came by it honestly. I'm not sure if I have ever worn a blazer to an FAI or ACC function! The ACC AGMs are definitely casual dress. If Ken wants to ban Blazers in MAAC then it is his priviledge to start a thread.
Old 09-01-2005, 02:18 PM
  #106  
Sharpy01
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

.........oh no.

Dave............this thread was soooo dead. Just remember, when this heads south again, it was you who breathed life back into it.

For those who are unaware, Rick Reid was a past MAAC president (no, I don't know him) who upset a certain core group of members within MAAC and to this day, is publically placed upon a skewer at every oppotunity. It might be obvious that I too, was not in favour with this group. [] Time to get over it Dave.

We've kind of moved on from this one. You should give it a try.
Old 09-01-2005, 02:56 PM
  #107  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Always nice to have the facts Dave.... Thanks for clearing that up![8D]
Old 09-01-2005, 03:52 PM
  #108  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

.............I should know better, but;

Time and bias have a predictable way of recording history. Those are Dave's recollections of the facts. I suspect Mr. Reid's recollection is cosiderably different......and he's not here to defend himself. I've heard many stories from both sides of that one and they don't quite match up, but there are always 2 sides to every controversial issue and fact generally lies somewhere inbetween .....and it really is time to let that one die or we're heading down the old slippery slope once again.

Old 09-01-2005, 04:58 PM
  #109  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Marc,

You sound like the old Irish story of the priest who exhorted his flock to tread the narrow path between right and wrong.

Actually my observations can be checked against a report which I submitted to the Board at the time of the Montreal AGM. It was voted on and accepted by the Board. There have been regular attempts by people who weren't involved to adjust the facts to their convenience.

You can check with Linda about the ACC paying $5K to use the office or even Rick Reid - he runs a Home Hardware in Saskatoon. Ken made a cheap shot about free trips to Paris to attend an FAI meeting at FAI HQ which then was based in that city where they got free office accommodation. Actually the only people who made an unessential free trip to Paris were Rick Reid and Linda. They went as observers (Jack Humphreys was already going as the delegate). But then the Board voted to allow this and I expect I did too! Check the minutes from the Red Deer AGM.
Old 09-01-2005, 06:32 PM
  #110  
kenair
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Dave, how much did you spend and how much did maac reimburse you in your "save maac fai" campaign.
I was told it was $14,000 but you can set the record straight.
Old 09-01-2005, 08:38 PM
  #111  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: DSLarkin


Actually my observations can be checked against a report which I submitted to the Board at the time of the Montreal AGM. It was voted on and accepted by the Board.
lol dave.............would that have been unanamous? And would that have been the same board that first gave majority support to Reid's actions before you began working behind the scenes? Just because the board "accepted" a report means about as much as Roy Romano's accepted report on Canada's health care system. It's politics.

Hey dave, neither one of us will agree with one another. How's about we agree to disagree and let this old story go to sleep? [sm=sleeping.gif]

We have been having some decent discussions recently and it would be nice if it stayed that way.

Old 09-01-2005, 09:15 PM
  #112  
DSLarkin
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Ken,

There's obviously a lot of mythology about this. $14,000 indeed!

No, I'm on a pension and certainly didn't have $14K to spend, especially when there was little likelihood of getting any of it back. I'll try and check my records, if my old Mac will cooperate, but I recall it was well under $2K. This was spent on travelling to meetings, phone calls and faxes over a three month period. I stayed with friends when in Toronto so there were no accommodation costs. Remember most people weren't using e-mail then. I still have all the phone records, for sure. As I recall, MAAC agreed to re-imburse me half of my costs and I think that was about $800, so I must have spent around $1,600. A motion to reimburse half my costs was introduced by the Pacific Zone ZD (I had made it clear that I did not expect to be fully re-imbursed). I believe he lives in Manitoba now so you could easily check with him. Eldon Linden was there and you could check with him. By the way, you were at the Montreal AGM and I gave an estimate there of the expected costs, so you should know better than to suggest a figure of $14K.

To put matters in perspective, the following May (two months later) Louis Lebel (then President of MAAC) held an extraordinary general meeting in Burlington to try and undo the decisions made at the AGM in Montreal. You did not attend that one, as you had stepped down. Frank Hummel (I'm not sure if that's the spelling) replaced you for that before Jeff Helps was elected, and you could easily check my figures with him, or have your ZD access the minutes. That meeting did cost MAAC $13K plus in travelling expenses, food and accommodation for the Board members and Howie Cowan. Two Zone Directors were replaced, in Manitoba and the SW Zone. As I recall, Louis Lebel went to the Aero Club AGM and seems to have misunderstood the schedule of payments by the various aerosport associations, thinking some of them had not paid or were not going to pay. In fact they had paid or were immediately about to pay as soon as their associations could ratify the new dues. MAAC's Aero Club payment was put into trust and the MAAC President called the EGM to withdraw from the Aero Club again. It did not work out as planned, the Board was brought up to date on the Aero Club finances by the Aero Club VP, the Montreal decisions were not reversed, and Louis resigned shortly afterwards. All very embarassing, and I hasten to observe that MAAC has tried for much better governance since.

The 'campaign' originated because Rick Reid had assigned each Board member a responsibility for several MAAC committees. As you know, without Aero Club membership, MAAC members could note compete on Canadian teams in FAI World Championship events. In my case a couple of the committee chairmen asked me to do what I could to get matters back on the rails. In this I was actively supported by some other Zone Directors, notably Ken Jones (Middle Zone) Neil Tinker (SE Zone) and Ray Brosinsky (Alberta). A number of other modellers were also very active and helpful. John Marret also attended the two Toronto meetings and there were others. An Extraordinary Zone Meeting was held in the Middle Zone and one was planned for the Manitoba Zone but I don't recall whether it actually occured. Your resignation may have made it unnecessary.

Had we not taken the initiative, and I stress that I was far from the only one involved, it would certainly have cost MAAC very much more to regain membership in the Aero Club, so the 'campaign' was cheap at the price.

Yes, MAAC later wasted about $13-14K on the affair and also had lost a $5K annual income for running the Aero Cub office. But I opposed these actions and was in no way responsible for them. I believe none of it need have happened.

May I remind you that you were at the Montreal AGM and received a full report from me at the time, verbally and in writing. I asked for and received a vote from the Board accepting the report.

If you require further references, I will be glad to provide them.
Old 09-01-2005, 09:41 PM
  #113  
Sharpy01
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

.........and some of you guys thought I drone on too much about politics.

I'm sorry, but I've seen this movie a few times. As a matter of fact, I could probably dig up a novel that you sent me dave where you explained how Reid and then Louis Label couldn't meet your standard. How you helped remove a sitting president, then how the successor you helped get in there, mr Label, also didn't live up to your expectations and eventually quit as well. (See a trend here yet, Dave?) It would appear very few could live up to your standard.

My take on the whole thing is you should be thanking Mr Reid for reminding the ACC how important our members were to their existance because like it or not, no matter your version or other versions, the ACC of the time tried to screww our membership by jacking our fees through the roof. It would appear by your own version that the true negotiations didn't begin till MAAC withdrew. Go figure. They needed us and you walked into a pretty easy barganning position.

Thanks Mr. Reid. By all accounts and from those who met him, including yourself, Rick was a "good guy". I personally met Mr Label and have had the pleasure of the odd exchange with him. He is also a very nice person and unbelievably dedicated to EVERY aspect of our hobby. Gee, 2 good guys............didn't meet your standard...........forced out? Makes you go hmmmmmmm, don't it?

Old 09-02-2005, 06:00 AM
  #114  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Dave, as I recall, the majority of the MAAC board voted to suspend MAAC's membership in the Awro CLub of Canada until a fair and proper fee agreement was worked out.

You then went against the majority of the board and started an underground campaign to subvert the board and president and got your way using your tactics.
Old 09-02-2005, 07:03 AM
  #115  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Geez, you guys make Dave out to sound like some operative for the kabal. Ican personally vouch for Dave in that I've never seen him at the quarterly Kabal operative meetings I've attended, definitely not at the dictator placement meeting or the ongoing alien visitor coverup meetings....

The conspiracy theory and rewriting of history is getting a little thick here.... Dave provides means for validation by way of written records, you two provide conspiracy theories and character testament based on impressions of an occasional social interaction.
Whom to believe, oh the dilemma.
Old 09-02-2005, 07:09 AM
  #116  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

Geez, you guys make Dave out to sound like some operative for the kabal. Ican personally vouch for Dave in that I've never seen him at the quarterly Kabal operative meetings I've attended, definitely not at the dictator placement meeting or the ongoing alien visitor coverup meetings....
But he has been seen flying indoor around the pole with Elvis

The conspiracy theory and rewriting of history is getting a little thick here.... Dave provides means for validation by way of written records, you two provide conspiracy theories and character testament based on impressions of an occasional social interaction.
Whom to believe, oh the dilemma.
Old 09-02-2005, 07:31 AM
  #117  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

' forced Rick Reid to resign' - more mythology.

Rick Reid never resigned. He served out his term (his second term).

'Forced Louis to resign'. Nobody forced Louis to resign. I can speculate as to why he resigned, but that's not useful. Actually I was the one who had proposed Louis for the MAAC VP position (he is a nice guy). When Rick didn't stand again, I did not support Louis for President, simply because I had earlier asked him for inputs to sort out the Aero Club quandry and he declined. Being a nice guy is not enough to run a national association.

As for resurrecting the old story, you and Ken brought it up, don't blame me. I realise you don't like being corrected and prefer to admonish anyone who does point out you have got your facts wrong.

The only case I recall of a MAAC President being forced out was when a group of Board members, led by Rick Reid, had Stan Shaw displaced at the elections at the Quebec AGM. Let's not go into the politics of this!

For the record Ken, Rick withdrew MAAC from the Aero Club, then asked for a postal vote to support his action. There was no proviso of suspension until a fair fee agreement was worked out. The fee agreement was always fair - it's just that there weren't enough fees to cover the loss of the federal grant. What was needed was a new agreement that provided enough money, and the Aero Club members (all of us) were moving too slowly to come up with viable proposals - understandably nobody wanted to pay any more. We needed people to be working together, 'behind the scenes' as you say, to put something together and it wasn't happening. Eventually some ideas were produced, and they were talked out and developed until an acceptable solution was found.
Old 09-02-2005, 08:20 AM
  #118  
Sharpy01
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

I hate to admit it, but I got sucked in..................... [:@]

I apologize for my part in dredging up the ancient history. It doesn't serve any useful purpose.

I've modified accordingly.
Old 09-02-2005, 08:37 AM
  #119  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

[X(]

Ok, this gets my goat ... unless I miss my guess, Dave didn't give you permission to post private email....

If this is the case, you are in direct violation of MAAC's internet policy, and worse, have violated a trust.

I will be sure to be cautious about sending you any PMs or email in the future.... knowing that anything I write you in private may suddenly become very public.[sm=rolleyes.gif]
Old 09-02-2005, 09:22 AM
  #120  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

I don't know about you folks, but when someone refers to folks as dave does, behind their backs, as he does in his dissertation below.............it's less than honorable by my standards. I have no respect for this type of behaviour. "Holy pretentious batman!"
Mr Sharpe, you blew it this time. You made the above statement and then published a private email. I guess that is not less than honourable by your standards. Any comments by kenair usually have no value and I treat them with the contempt they deserve. Your comments are usualy more credible. After reading the previous posts I would say that Dave Larkin looks pretty good. If I had to choose between the Sharpe/Kenair duo and D. Larkin I know what choice I would make. Mr. Sharpe, You have a credibility and trust issue to deal with.

Ed S
Old 09-02-2005, 09:39 AM
  #121  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

To Jim Helps,

Nice to hear from you again, Jim. Actually I have been flying indoor (electric) RTP, mostly with Air Cadets and the National Aviation Museum. Not, as it happens, with Elvis. A couple of the cadets are the grandchildren of Jan Zurakowski of Arrow fame. It was a priviledge to meet them. I understand that the Museum is now providing this programme to a number of Air Cadet Squadrons across the country.

All the best

Dave

(Sorry about all the typos in that ancient letter that Marc dredged up)
Old 09-02-2005, 10:20 AM
  #122  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Ok, I've done my part.

Perhaps we can get back to useful discussion?

Old 09-02-2005, 10:37 AM
  #123  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

Perhaps we can get back to useful discussion?

I dunno -- is it safe to go back into the water? []
Old 09-02-2005, 11:07 AM
  #124  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?


ORIGINAL: DSLarkin
The only case I recall of a MAAC President being forced out was when a group of Board members, led by Rick Reid, had Stan Shaw displaced at the elections at the Quebec AGM.
Respectully, I'd suggest that wayne's resignation mid-term is a lot closer to a president being forced out that a democratic, if loaded, election by the board of directors.
Old 09-02-2005, 12:38 PM
  #125  
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Default RE: SW Zone Director's AGM comments?

Keith,

I wondered about that and you may well be right - I'm not (thankfully) familiar with the gory details, and hope to stay that way. But I'm not at all sure that anyone on, say, the Board was asking for Wayne to resign, although I believe that there was some heartfelt hope that he wouldn't run yet again. The next election was only about three months away.

But in Stan's case there was definitely a no-holds barred palace revolt. I was a newbie so don't have direct knowledge of what led up to this. But if Stan was slow to follow the direction given by the Board, as I was told, he turned out to be completely correct in his concerns. The Board wanted to do certain things, with absolutely the best of intentions. But they were unworkable and the Board was not the least interested in listening to anyone with experience who tried to warn them off. Supposedly Stan listened and he paid for it with his post. Very unfortunate. The Board then learned the lesson the hard way. I think I went along with the rest of the Board. Mea culpa.

The lesson to me was that if someone comes along and says it's only commonsense to do something, then the odds are that they haven't done their research. It's certainly true of our provincial politicians!

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