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A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Old 06-23-2005, 04:43 PM
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ajcoholic
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Default A real bunch of swell modelers... not

It was brought to my attention that this was posted on another website who's main (re: only) participants are also the same crew that post the same old stuff here.

Here it is:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ah yes;

The crash that will never be spoken of (on RCC ) by one of the most perfect pilots in the world (just ask him ).

The one that happened at our home field during diner when a .20 sized MIG 15 encountered a sudden loss of elevation .

But the Fantastic Flying Fellow from Kirkland Lake didn't have ANYTHING to do with it!

I have never seen Patch smile so much, and the BritBrat almost swallowed that piece of chicken whole when he saw the pilot in question.

Yep; it was a pretty good day for everyone, except for that 34 C heat and 80% humidity But even that is better than rain . . .



Happy Landings!"

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, that in essence shows me what a bunch you guys really are. I have been in this hobby since I was 7 yrs old, nearly 28 yrs now. I have never met such a revolting bunch as you guys. Modeling is a great hobby, and I have made many wonderfull friends through it. I have also met a few guys like yourselves that I dislike for various reasons, however, I have NEVER wished, even thought, for anyone to loose an aircraft, nor have I ever boasted to anyone about how wonderfull my flying is. I do feel I am a competent pilot, and I consider myself lucky to get to as many events as I do, and meet many great people as I get the opportunity to. I try like hell to help people, really help them - ask the guys where ever I fly... thats true modeling spirit.

To take pleasure in the loss of someone else's aircraft is just poor spirited and far from what I consider promoting the hobby.

For the record, the Mig 15 was powered not by a .20 but by a Norvel .061 and it crashed 100% due to pilot error, a stall at a low altitude. It didnt bother me, I have been at this long enough to understand every aircraft has its day. Nothing terribly exciting about it, its the 2nd one this year and probably wont be the last. But I am glad I was of some amusement to you three bunch of "elite true modelers".

You know, no matter how much I despise your attitudes and ignorance towards many things, I would never wish upon you the loss of any plane no matter how inexpensive. Just sad....

Andrew J. Coholic
Old 06-23-2005, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Andrew,

I can certainly see how you can take exception to what was written, and I sympathize with your loss, however to turn two posts by two individuals on the subject into "you bunch of guys" painting with the same brush anyone who posts here or on Canadian RC Forum is too big a stretch for me. If you wish to see some real feedback on flying incidents have a look at Flight line follies page 6 to see how most incidents are turned into learning experiences for others.

Why that individual chose to post the subject in that tone is beyond me (perhaps a personal grudge?), however at the point in time I checked the post after reading your comment here, no-one else had jumped on it in glee (unfortunately time will likely prove me wrong) so again I have a problem with how two posts turns into all those who post here or there are a bunch of revolting guys.

Sorry again for your loss.

Jeff Helps
Old 06-23-2005, 05:42 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Jeff,
What I meant was the same prolific three who post at the MBZ site, who are also post here.

First off, this isnt about crashing my Mig. If I had lost my turbine powered AV8R and the $5000 it cost me, I can accept that too, but to take joy in the loss of any flyer's model to me goes against EVERYTHING that this hobby stands for to me.

Britbrat, Browning and Patch if you want me to be specific. Having never met me,( Browning and Patch I have never even gotten into it on the net) these three "gentlemen" dont know what I am all about.

This is about calling a spade a spade. These three talk like they are out to save Canadian Modeling, and how everything they do is just super and politically correct, and for the good of the common modeler, etc.

To take joy in the crashing of any other modeler's aircraft is just plain wrong. I find that quite disturbing actually. To post about it on a public website just shows the level of thinking that exists in the minds of these few...

AJC

Old 06-23-2005, 06:24 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

I guess technically three can make a "bunch"

Couldn't agree more about taking joy in a crash unless of course the "victim" initiates the laughing (having been the recipient of the "best crash" award for a helicopter plant a few years ago that was just hilarious I can relate) however my point is that not all think that way. I regularly post here and on Canadian RC forum and to a lesser degree on RCC and will continue to do so, and think I have been fair to all and tried to keep it on topic.

On a related topic the first time I took my then girlfriend (seem strange to use that term when you're 40+ at the time) to watch me fly my then pride and joy - PICA FW190D retracts, bomb drop, etc - I dumb thumbed it into the ground (nothing salvagable). She confided to me much later that one of the reasons she decided to marry me (amongst others) was the way I handled the loss without much fanfare and admitting that I caused it myself! So sometimes good things do come from crashes!!!

Someones tag line on one of these forums reads something like ... "No-one wants to see a crash ... on the other hand no-one wants to miss one either".

I for one hope that I can catch them on video in hopes that you can see what went wrong.

hope you get the MIG (or a new one) back in the air soon.

Jeff

Old 06-23-2005, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Considering that the model was barely scratched, & considering that you have attacked me on this forum without cause, or having met me, or knowing what I am about -- it seems that your discomfiture is of your own doing. No one here knew that you stuffed the self-same Mig until you blurted your own misfortune here for all to see.

I would have been heartbroken if you had destroyed your AV8R, but since you only embarrased yourself & simply dented the Mig, I guess that an unworthy sense of "what goes around, comes around" overcame me --- sorry about that. I did not mention your name -- I simply alluded to a notable crash.

Cheers
Old 06-24-2005, 07:17 AM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

ORIGINAL: britbrat
... sense of "what goes around, comes around" overcame me ...
You're picking on the wrong guy this time 'britbrat'.
Andrew, humble as he may be, is probably unable to count the people he has helped out in this hobby. His good reputation is well earned and he is respected by many (including myself) ... take my advice, tuck your tail betwixt your legs and slither back under your rock while you still can.[>:]
Old 06-24-2005, 11:48 AM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Actually I'm not picking on anyone -- I am accused of something other than reality -- I am guilty only of choking on a piece of chicken when Andrew's event occurred. Never did I name, or suggest the identity of the individual in any way -- in fact I only referred in a post to a notable crash at the fun-fly (notable for being the only crash there) -- I gave no details whatsoever. I do admit to the unworthy thought that "hey, he doesn't fly any better than me", and I'm sure that it showed on my face. However, if that, or choking on a piece of chicken whilst startled by a crash, is considered a culpable fellony in your world, I'm glad that I don't live there.

Likewise, Patch is guilty of nothing more than a grin when the event occurred -- no comment (or post) at all. Being a combat pilot, he does that with alarming regularity, as crashes are a normal part of his flying, & "a good one" is to be greatly admired and commented upon. In this case, the crash rated about 2 out of 10 -- essentially no damage -- and worth nothing more than a grin. Hardly a crime -- maybe a misdemeanor, requiring two minutes for grinning.

I can't comment for Mr Browning, but I have indeed met him & he is a an intelligent, open and friendly gentleman, as well as a fine upstanding member of the modelling fraternity -- very well regarded in fact. Perhaps Andrew has offended him in some fashion, as Bruce is not a notably aggressive individual.

More likely, Andrew has taken offence unnecessarily. Bruce is truly one of Andrew's coterie of fans. Shortly after the event, we were discussing it:

Bruce - "What happened? He is the Most Perfect Pilot."

Patch - (grinning) "Is not!"

Brit - "Mmmph, mmph!"

Ms. Browning - "Brit, what's wrong?"

Brit - "Mmph, mmmph!!"

Ms. Browning - "Oh, that's good, I thought that you were choking on the chicken."

Brit - "Mmph, aarrgle!"

Bruce - "Is too. He never crashes. Just ask him."

Patch - "I'm too shy to ask him. Besides, my Pa is the Perfect Pilot -- I've never seen him crash."

Bruce - "Your Pa? -- Maybe -- Y' know, yer right, I've never seen him crash -- but I've never seen you crash either."

Brit - "Mmph!"

Patch - "Oh, I crash all of the time -- but, y'know, Ive never seen you crash, come to think of it. Maybe you're the Most Perfect Pilot."

Ms. Browning - "Brit, what was that?"

Patch - "Pa, swallow that chicken, you're turning blue."

Bruce - "I still think that he's the Most Perfect Pilot and that he had nothing to do with the crash -- it was that vicious little Mig."

Patch - "Well maybe, but what about my Pa?"

Brit - "Wheeeze, hack, hack."

Bruce - "We're never going to agree on this -- we're too far apart."


Old 06-24-2005, 12:45 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Nice backpedaling, a dancer eh? [sm=lol.gif]
Old 06-24-2005, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

naw, he's not backpeddelling. that's pretty much how it was. Myself, I'd hate to see a plane that someone put a lot of time and money in crash, BUT I was born and raised in a combat club, and it is unusual NOT to see a crash or midair. The lecture I recieved when I started was "If you don't want to lose it, don't fly it" I've dumbthumbed a few in, mid-aired more than I can count and so on. I always get a chuckle. things such as "cool! put the shaft right through the backplate" "WOW! battery went right through the reciever" "free spare parts!" Yeah, I got a chuckle when the Mig went in. Nothing personal. I don't have anything personal with someone I've never met. Our whole "bunch" has helped out a lot of modelers and beginners over the years. Does this mean we will have to quit now because we thought it was funny! get a life. Oh wait, MAAC is your life. get a hobby!
Old 06-24-2005, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

It must have been funny enough to make a complete post on it tho?.......whatever...that post was intended to embarrass, which is one of the rules of this forum I see.
Old 06-24-2005, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Andrew,

you wrote (edited by me) "Modeling is a great hobby, and I have made many wonderfull friends through it. I have also met a few guys like yourselves that I dislike for various reasons, however, I have NEVER wished for anyone to loose an aircraft, nor have I ever boasted to anyone about how wonderfull my flying is. I do feel I am a competent pilot, and I consider myself lucky to get to as many events as I do, and meet many great people as I get the opportunity to. I try like hell to help people, really help them - ask the guys where ever I fly... thats true modeling spirit."


slightly edited, that would be an exact quote from myself. Our only difference really is what area of the hobby we're in. You're in the "they're beautiful, I hope it never dies side" and I'm on the "hope this plane can survive the whole event, but if not, oh well.....spare parts" side of it. We've never "got into it" before, and I hope we never do. I don't have any reason to dislike you.

you didn't provide amusement for me, the crash did. Like I said, nothing personal. I'm not out to save Canadian modeling. But I will say what I think. As for Britbrat giving a rating of 2, that would only make a 1/2 in the combat areana.

Old 06-24-2005, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

...seems much toodo about nada.

Cripes, I'm still taking it in the ear from my club members for a crappy landing at our float fly a few weeks back. I don't wreck'em that often, but the guys are always waiting for it .................because it doesn't happen that often and they can't waite to get their shots in. I consider it part of the comradery. Hell, the only write-off of the year for me was my kids trainer and I'll never hear the end of that, nor do I expect to.

The amount and timing of the ribbing is proportional to the type, experience, expense and totality of the devestation. For example, a quarter scale scratch-built deserves at least understanding silence up until the peices are bagged and back in the vehicle while a .40 Arf is fair game during the return "walk-of-shame". This must of course be tempered with how long a person has been in the hobby. Somebody who is realively new and just destroyed their only plane get's sympathy and support until such plane is replaced and successfully flown again.

Those who can't take any teasing of any sort,............................. well, it's time to consider model railroading methinks.

Now, before it is suggested that I am suggesting that Andrew Can't handle the teasing.................stop. (particularly with Ronnio joining the fray because I can almost hear his fingers striking angrily at the keys already)

This is only my opinion relating to doinking a model. I don't know Andrew and only have a few relatively benign forum exchanges and his engines reviews that don't give me much in the area of character data, other than he knows a bunch about engines and flys almost anything........oh yeah, and wishes I would stop winding guys like Ronnieo1 up.

Old 06-24-2005, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

OK this is what really bothers me... as it has turned into something far from my point-

If you care to go to the MBZ site and read the thread with all the smiley's and such to get the one of the conversation (or just read what I quoted again) you can only gather that these fellows (none who have ever met, nor seen me and therefore couldnt have known it was me immediately) were taking great joy in the fact I crashed my model.

For the record, I do not have a problem crashing models. I do it regularly as I try and push my flying as much as I can, and I would say of most people I know it bothers me little to crash. It is part of the hobby.

I have never, ever self proclaimed myself as some hotshot pilot, who doesnt crash. I was brought up to believe that boasting about one's self is rude, and wrong. I dont do it. In my 10,000 + posts on RCC or here on RCU I dare anyone to find one post or one person that knows me, to say I have ever bragged about how good a pilot I am. But somehow Bruce has an inside that I fancy myself some expert..? Enough about that...

What REALLY upset me, is that these fellows singled me out - plain and simple - taking pleasure in my crash. Not the fact I crashed in itself. These same guys post endless and edless threads about how so many others are close minded, and have unethical and wrong views on the hobby, and so forth. Pat and I have had it out a few times on line. I know he dislikes me. I dont agree with much of what he writes on line, no secret. Bruce I never have (to my knowledge) personally spoken to on line or in person and Jason, well, I dont even know him at all other than what I read.

Poking fun at a crash of a friend or even a stranger who made an error can be fun and in jest. They spoke of other crashes but mainly in passing... But, I believe from the way this was written (please, go the MBZ site and read it in context) it was not meant to be funny, other than a direct jab at myself. Perhaps none of these fellows thought I would see it? Perhaps they dont care...

But for some who have an easy time to generally take a "holier than thou" attitude in this hobby, I would never have wished that they could reduce themselves to picking someone (me) that for the simple fact disagrees with the political side of the hobby, and take pleasure in my loss no matter how small.

THAT is and was my point. Marc, I dont see eye to eye with you, thats no secret. But if you took off three days and traveled 10 hours to attend an event at my home club, and had the misfortune to lose a plane, I wouldnt run to my buddies and take joy in it. Is that clear enough or what?

AJC
Old 06-24-2005, 10:27 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Andrew has done me an indirect solid, therfore I will stand behind his hurt feelings and respectfully request an apology from those getting enjoyment from his mishap. I have broken many a plane for your to laugh/choke your chicken on in leiu of a great RCU contributor like Andrew. So aim your sights on me instead of a true asset to the hobby like my friend Andrew, otherwise say you are sorry not only here but in MBZ.

Thanks Vic
Old 06-24-2005, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

ORIGINAL: ajcoholic

Marc, I dont see eye to eye with you, thats no secret. But if you took off three days and traveled 10 hours to attend an event at my home club, and had the misfortune to lose a plane, I wouldnt run to my buddies and take joy in it. Is that clear enough or what?

AJC
10-4.

The truth be known, I actually prefer if somebody jabs me soon after I doink a plane as it puts things in prespective for me. Most of the time, I beat them to it by self-jabbing before the chunks settle.

The only time I truley was "upset" by cracking up a plane was 2 seasons back when I botched the landing on a test-flight of my buddie's Vallencourt Typhoon and tore the right wing off. The boyz gave me the courtesy of at least waiting to till the main parts were stored. ...........then they went at me. A few laughs later, I was feeling better.

.......and Yes, I understand what you are saying. A parellel could be drawn if hypothetically, ronnieo1 and a couple of notable associates began ribbin me after a doink just because they didn't like my politics. I get it.

....but would I care? Nope. Probably go over and have a couple of laughs with them cause that's just my style......or lack thereof.

As for BBAir? I have met him when he was on a military duty up in Manitoba a number of years back and I doubt his post was intended to be "mean-spirited". If it was, he's the type to come on here and admit to it or apologize for any misconceptions, but I still suspect, much toodo about nada. Whatever, I'm sure you two can sort it. It may be a good one to sort out privately as nobody besides those directly involved knew who they were discussing till this thread started.

Off topic, If i was closer, or retired, or independantly wealthy, I'd love to head to Sudbury for an event. Likely, you'd be surprized as I'd be there to fly, enjoy some laughs (some in relation to these forums) and really not have an interest in the politics.



Old 06-25-2005, 07:18 AM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not


ORIGINAL: ajcoholic

O
Pat and I have had it out a few times on line. I know he dislikes me. I dont agree with much of what he writes on line, no secret. AJC

Andrew, you couldn't be farther from the truth. I don't dislike you at all -- in fact I admire you & I've actually told you that before (but don't tell anyone else that I said that). We certainly dissagree on a number of subjects & you certainly have seriously ticked me off a couple of times -- but I don't dislike you at all -- how could I, we've never had a beer & sorted things out. Maybe I'd dislike you then, but I doubt it. It's you who are wrestling with dislike at the moment. Maybe it will go away after a while & maybe it won't -- but it's your problem, not mine.

You are being wayyy too sensitive about a whole bunch of things -- from having your tail pulled, to this silly MAAC stuff. When you take a hard line on anything, you leave yourself open to being poked, prodded & laughed at -- it certainly happens to me & it also happens to you. If you can't laugh at yourself, someone else will do it for you. I laughed at you -- eventually, when the chicken went down, but we all laughed at the funny situation.

Why are you so worried about this? No one who knows you thinks that you are a dud pilot -- your reputation is still intact. No one who knows me thinks that I'm a dud pilot either, but I can plant a model as fast as you can -- & I get my tail pulled very hard indeed by my flying buddies. Your hot reaction will bring further laughter, & outrage as well, but why worry about it -- you are still you & you are still a Paragon of good example among modellers.

You are vulnerable because you are a public figure & you seem to have an unforgiving attitude about individuals that have contrary opinions of certain MAAC-related things, or who criticisize ideas posted by your pals. I have hard attitudes as well about some things & those ideas have brought me lots of laughter & critique -- but I usually don't get personally angry about that stuff. Life is stuffed full of grief if you get wound up over contrary opinions, or folks having fun at your expense.

This whole thing is really very funny -- you just can't see it yet.
Old 06-25-2005, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Britbrat...that original post was certainly not intended to be an amicable funny moment to be enjoyed by all. You three were all well aware that Andrew is a far more more dedicated Canadian modeller and willing to help out anyone, as we've all witnessed many times on ALL forums as well as the magazines...and to take delight in his misfortune and cross post it for all to see with your names attached was as low as you can get. If this was not the case, then I would have asked the original mischeivous poster to remove my name and I see that you havent done that, rather, expand on it....or "backpedal" as Jim McIntyre said. In fact, I would probably encourage people to avoid the BofQ next year knowing that the chicken-chokers are waiting for the next true MAAC flyer to have a misfortune. Sad Indeed.
Old 06-25-2005, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not


ORIGINAL: ronnieo1

Britbrat...that original post was certainly not intended to be an amicable funny moment to be enjoyed by all. You three were all well aware that Andrew is a far more more dedicated Canadian modeller and willing to help out anyone, as we've all witnessed many times on ALL forums as well as the magazines...and to take delight in his misfortune and cross post it for all to see with your names attached was as low as you can get. If this was not the case, then I would have asked the original mischeivous poster to remove my name and I see that you havent done that, rather, expand on it....or "backpedal" as Jim McIntyre said. In fact, I would probably encourage people to avoid the BofQ next year knowing that the chicken-chokers are waiting for the next true MAAC flyer to have a misfortune. Sad Indeed.
......"encourage people to avoid the BofQ".....

Holy going beyond the rediculous batman! [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Old 06-25-2005, 12:32 PM
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britbrat
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not


ORIGINAL: ronnieo1

Britbrat...that original post was certainly not intended to be an amicable funny moment to be enjoyed by all ---

..and to take delight in his misfortune and cross post it for all to see with your names attached was as low as you can get.

--If this was not the case, Sad Indeed.
Well Ronnieo, I guess that you don't read carefully.

Andrew himself cross-posted the account, with our names for all to see --- for whatever reasons I can't imagine.

So it was not the case, as you imagined, or perhaps distorted. Nor was there a separate thread dedicated to it, as you recently posted -- it was burried in a thread dealing with the BoQ Jet Rally.

You wouldn't be trying to make more of it than it actually is, would you? --- Sad indeed.
Old 06-25-2005, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Britbrat...I stand Korrected...it was from the ManiKtoba official Site where all the Kommies there talK like this.....but not disputed in any way, so it leads one to believe it's endorsed by all. Sad indeed is Korrect grammar.
Old 06-25-2005, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not


ORIGINAL: ronnieo1

Britbrat...I stand Korrected...it was from the ManiKtoba official Site where all the Kommies there talK like this.....but not disputed in any way, so it leads one to believe it's endorsed by all. Sad indeed is Korrect grammar.
New rule:

Your posts need to make a little bit of sense? [&:]
Old 06-25-2005, 03:40 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

Mig 15 was powered not by a .20 but by a Norvel .061 - $500

Cost to repair Mig 15 - $200

Cost to repost such information from an obscure web site for the world to see - $0

Cost to perform The Heimlich Maneuver to a BritBrat choking on chicken - $0

Cost of loosing one's dignity and reputation in starting a war about nothing - Priceless


Don't you all think that there is something better to do than this crap. Lets discuss something constructive. We were all doing so well.

Old 06-25-2005, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

A bit off topic, but still related to B of Q event. (and as good as reason as any to change direction)

I noticed on RCC that some of you'all met John Wiebe from MB. Great pilot and builder. He's the type of modeller that always has something real cool and cutting edge at the events I've had the pleasure to be at with him.

.......watch out for his son. Talking to some of the boyz, I understand he's quite a decent pilot already.......at around 8 yrs old.
Old 06-26-2005, 07:50 PM
  #24  
Jason Holdaway
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

ORIGINAL: vicman

Andrew has done me an indirect solid, therfore I will stand behind his hurt feelings and respectfully request an apology from those getting enjoyment from his mishap.

Thanks Vic
[:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:-][:-][:'(]
Old 06-27-2005, 05:56 PM
  #25  
ronnieo1
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Default RE: A real bunch of swell modelers... not

ORIGINAL: Jason Holdaway

ORIGINAL: vicman

Andrew has done me an indirect solid, therfore I will stand behind his hurt feelings and respectfully request an apology from those getting enjoyment from his mishap.

Thanks Vic
[:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(][:-][:-][:'(]

It sums it up right there.....the fact they prefer to grasp the cheap 10 minutes in the light rather than see it from Andrew's point of view.... chokin' their chickens and feelin good about it. A non-class act indeed and verifies what we've known all along, based on the original post from the Hotair Bros. on the "4 Kids Left Forum". Andrew had every right to complain....because he's definitely the better person. Every response they further make here only makes the incident more valid. He was unaware that he'd be dealing with three kids watching the plane go down and laugh about it at his expense and savor the fact on a couple of forums....Leave them alone Andrew. I think I will too cuz they'll only try to weasel out of the next statement with some 4 cent comment of patronization that aint worth typing back for.

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